Discussion:
For Handsome Jack Morrison: Collars - belated reply
(too old to reply)
YourConscience
2005-07-19 00:37:41 UTC
Permalink
HOWEDY alison you congenital idiot,
Any nonviolent method would do, I believe.
NOT QUITE. THAT'S HOWE COME HOWER DOG LOVERS
PREFER TO HURT INTIMIDATE and MURDER dogs.
Dog trainin AIN'T LUCK and "NON VIOLENT" does
NOT make an EFFECTIVE TRAINING METHOD. Bribery
and AVOIDANCE are NON VIOLENT methods that
CAUSE temperament and behavior problems.

Clicker training is NON VIOLENT and it
CAUSES SEIZURES in some dogs and CANNOT
TRAIN ALL BEHAVIORS NEARLY INSTANTLY AS
EVIDENCED by karen pryor the GURU of
clicker trainin who MURDERED HER OWN DEAD
KAT on accHOWENT of she couldn't clicker
train IT not to shit an piss in her stove
top <{): ~ ( >

So much for NON VIOLENT METHODS, eh folksies?
Jerry's method worked so well with my strong-
willed puppy because it was one that managed
to capture his attention and offer him something
more rewarding than the bad things he enjoyed so
much doing.
Lucy>>
Lucy ,
Why not come along to Taking the lead fourm.
http://www.takingthelead.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl
AN EXXXCELLENT IDEA, alison you congenital idiot.
You have to subscribe to read the posts.
INDEEDY. JUST LIKE HOWE The Amazing Puppy
Wizard done the last time you tried to
DERAIL a dog owner from gettin the INFORMATION
they NEEDED to train their dog...
There are several recognised positive trainers/behaviourists
INDEED? You mean like gil mitner white? She's
a liar and dog abusing punk thug coward like
the rest of these mental cases.
who can explain why using noise distraction
can sometimes do more harm than good.
BWEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAAA!!!
Alison:)
If Lucy goes there, ASK gil WHAT HAPPENED to
ALL The Amazing Puppy Wizard's KINDLY Posts
to her forum CITING CASE HISTORY DATA and
PEER REVIEWED SCIENTIFIC DOCUMENTATION HE
sent her forums...

You'll see gill KILLFILED The Amazing Puppy
Wizard's INFORMATION on accHOWENT of IT'D
PUT HER HOWETA the SELLIN DOG TRAINING LESSON
BUSINESS.

BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAAA!!!

JUST ASK OVER THERE, Lucy.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard <{); ~ ) >
YourConscience
2005-07-21 20:57:44 UTC
Permalink
HOWEDY lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn,
Lucy, the problem is that you are seeing
dogs in terms of their pain and suffering.
Hunh? WHAAAAT "PAIN and SUFFERING," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn?
That teaches you only about humans who mistreat dogs.
You mean THE "PAIN and SUFFERING" you GIVE THEM:

"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn.

lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.

- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.
Lynn K.
It teaches you nothing at all about who dogs are
or how to work with them.
You mean DESPITE all that PAIN and SUFFERING you WORK them thru?:

"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in
one shelter.) But their ability to set their own
schedules and duties causes a great deal of
scheduling overhead.

And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
volunteers get the meaningful experience that
they work for.

Someone has to be responsible for that
Volunteer Program, and it is best done
by a non-volunteer."

Lynn K.

"I worked with one shelter where I bathed and groomed
every adoptable dog on intake. I frankly felt that the
effort/benefit equation was not balanced for some of the
older/ill poodle/terrier mixes we got in badly matted condition.

Should I have refused to groom them?

Or even more pertinent - I was one of the people who
had to make the euthanasia decisions at that shelter."
Lynn K.

Baghdad Bob <Baghdadbob> wrote in message
<news:***@TeraNews>...

Lynn, looks like he got you there if these
quotes are true.

In the posts below you take responsibility for
making those calls.

In your post above, you state you do not
make those calls.

Which one is it?

BBBWEEEEEEAAAAAAHAHAHHAHHAAA!!!

-------------------------------------
You have to experience the glory of achieving difficult
things with dogs to know what incredible creatures they
are and how they behave in partnership with us.
HERE'S YOU EXXXPERIENCING the GLORY of achieving
difficult things with dogs, knowin what INCEDIBLE
CREATURES they are and HOWE they BEHAVE IN PARTNERSHIP
with us:

Dynamite Herding Dog, Flashy, Titled before the Age
of 2, DEAD courtesy of Lynn K.

Hello fans,

here's a great story of someone killing a great dog:

----------------------------------
Lynn K, kills a great dog
----------------------------------

Exactly. A couple of years ago I evaluated a BC bitch
in rescue who had gotten in 20-25 bites on her foster
family the 1st day in their home.

The problem was that there were a whole slew of people
lined up who wanted her because she was a dynamite herding
dog, titled before she was 2, flashy, etc.. Most of these
people were single women

[editor's note, like Melanie Lee Chang, who would
have had ZERO problems with this dog, even though
she's 1/10th the trainer Michael is]

into competitive herding who had no children or plans to have any.

Testing the dog revealed that she had a safety zone of about
3 ft and would use her mouth to drive out anyone who came within
that space (other than whoever was holding her leash).

She also would not tolerate any entrance to her airspace.

The deciding factor was that eye contact was also a trigger
and the severity of the bite increased with eye's moved
lowerer to her level. IOW, the shorter the person, the
harder the bite, and kids were shortest of all."

[This is HOWE lynn KillMooreDogs seals a
a dog's fate and this is HOWE SHE KILLS
DOGS. She kills them with WORDS, not with
poison. She lets sucker animal lovers or
sucker volunteers do the dirty work of
poisoning them and dumping their bodies,
after she condemns them to death with
her "evaluation"] --editor's note

We decided that even if we could feel perfectly safe with
a person and situation we placed her into, she still had
to live in a world where there were children and we couldn't,
in good conscience, put a known risk like her into that world.

People's lives and situation change and any adopter might
have future contact with children that they don't have
at present.

She was put down.

[because of Lynn K.s Passionate concerns about
LIABILITY INSURANCE, the ONLY thing she cares
about, besides her REPUTATION as an "animal
lover" BWHAHAHAHAAHAHAAAAA!!!] --editor's note

Lynn K.

mi.chael
li.ve...

------------------------------------

HERE'S your PARTNER in RESCUE:

"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.


"You Lying Sack Of Dung. When Have I Ever Said
Anything About Using A Prong Collar, Or Any Collar
Correction At All, To Make Dogs Friendly To House
Cats? Don't bother. The answer is never," lying "I
LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.

lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn writes about kats and dogs:

"This Article Is Something We've Put Together
For SF GSD Rescue

From: Lynn Kosmakos (***@home.com)
Subject: Re: I have a dog he has cats
Date: 1999/11/20
How can I get him to quit chasing the cats.
Okay - this is going to be a bit loooong - Lynn K.

"Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog. Don't
forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong works
better than a choke with less chance of injury to the dog in
this situation.

Electronics can be used to create an aversion to cats, but
should be used under the direction of a trainer who knows how
to instruct the owner in their proper use. Electronics can
take the form of shock, sonic or citronella collars. At that
time the owner will train with electronics instead of food or
whatever other reward system was being used."

8) Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog.
Don't forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong
works better than a choke with less chance of injury to the
dog in this situation. Have the dog in a sit-stay next to
you with most of the slack out of the leash and let the cat
walk through the room and up to the dog if it wishes (this is
why you have the dog muzzled).

If the dog makes an aggressive move towards the
cat, it must be corrected strongly with both your
voice and the collar.

This is important - the correction must be physically
very strong - not a nag. (PS: not many dogs need
to be corrected at all)."
T***@Mail.Com
2005-07-21 22:01:18 UTC
Permalink
HOWEDY lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn,
Lucy, the problem is that you are seeing
dogs in terms of their pain and suffering.
Well then, let's look at it from the DOG'S point
of view, THEM considering the TERMS of their human's
PAIN and SUFFERING:

WORDS OF WISDOM
from our own Lynn Kosmakos
1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every day
For Twenty Years

I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM

"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder (manic-depression)
requiring 1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every day.
I, also, care about dogs and use this forum to learn more,
while happily sharing pertinent information I have learned.

But if I were ever to post such sh*t, I would hope that every
other reader of this group would be rightfully outraged."

"Community is an evolutionary thing that we earn
the right to participate in by observing the easily
understood rules and contributing to in constructive ways."

Lynn K.
That teaches you only about humans who mistreat dogs.
LIKE THIS:

"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn.

"Unfortunately, some confrontation is necessary,
just to be able to handle the dogs. For example,
we need to crate train a dog immediately because
they are usually in need of medical care and they
are in foster homes with other dogs.

It's a safety necessity."

lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.

- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.

Lynn K.
It teaches you nothing at all about who dogs are
or how to work with them.
You mean, LIKE THIS:

"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in
one shelter.) But their ability to set their own
schedules and duties causes a great deal of
scheduling overhead.

And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
volunteers get the meaningful experience that
they work for.

Someone has to be responsible for that
Volunteer Program, and it is best done
by a non-volunteer." Lynn K.

"I worked with one shelter where I bathed and groomed
every adoptable dog on intake. I frankly felt that the
effort/benefit equation was not balanced for some of the
older/ill poodle/terrier mixes we got in badly matted condition.

Should I have refused to groom them?

Or even more pertinent - I was one of the people who
had to make the euthanasia decisions at that shelter."

Lynn K.
You have to experience the glory of achieving
difficult things with dogs to know what incredible
creatures they are and how they behave in partnership
with us.
DOGS DO NOT "PARTNER" WITH MENTAL CASES LIARS COWARDS
and DOG ABUSERS, lying "I LOVE KOEHELR" lynn, they TURN
ON THEM.
Hey, do like me, and killfile Jerry.
He has millions of people aleady reading his posts and
watching him extract his soggy foot out of his mouth!
Out of these MILLIONS, I've only seen 2 naive childs
come forward and actually believe in his training manual.
Robert Crim writes:

I assume that I and my wife are those two naive childs since
I freely admit to having read and, I hope, understood enough
of the manual and it's counterparts by John Fisher and the
posts of Marylin Rammell to believe and use it. This naive
child would like to say thank you to both Jerry and Marylin for
putting up with a constant barrage of really infantile crap at
the hands of supposedly adult dog lovers.

The other naive child (LSW) has to put up with the nagging
idea that if people like them had been posting earlier, maybe
we would not have had to hold the head of a really
magnificent animal in our arms while he was given the
needle and having to hug him and wait until he gasped
his last gasp.

To my mind, "naive" is believing you can terrorize a dog into
good behavior. Naive is believing that people that hide
behind fake names are more honest than people that use
their real names. Naive is thinking that dilettante dog
breeders and amateur "trainers" like Joey (lyingdogDUMMY,
j.h.) are the equal or better than those that have studied and
lived by their craft for decades.

"Stupid" is believing that people do not see kindergarten
level insults for what they are. Really stupid is believing that
people like Jerry Howe and Marylin Rammell are going to
just go away because you people act like fools. Why do you
act like fools? I really have no idea, and I don't really care.
And, to date: I've not seen ONE come forward and actually
admit to buying and having success with his little black
box.
I think I'm going to get one myself for Father's day and take
it down to the Animal Shelter for their use and testing. You
would never believe the results, so you'll never know.
Anyone by now that doesn't see a scam man coming by
Jerry's posts deserves to get what is sure to be coming to
him! LOL!
I don't see a "scam man", so I guess I and Longsuffering
Wife and Rollei will just have to get what we deserve, eh?
As Joey (Dogman) says, "poor Rollei.".......right.
Terri
Yes it was, and that is sad.

Robert, Longsuffering Wife and Rollei (do I
get to listen to the box first?)

OR they RUN HOWET on them AND GET DEAD.

LIKE THIS:

"misty" <Momisty> wrote in message news:
16990-3CAB1F8C-1@

I don't now whether Peach is dead or alive.
I do know she's not here with us. I really
can't blame anyone here for her loss.

I'm the one who ignored your advice. I did it because of how
you write/wrote. I was unwilling to accept the idea that my
using a shock collar could have any bearing on Peach not
wanting to stay home.

Up until I started using it my main concern
had been keeping my dogs in their own yard.

Once I started using the e-fence... well, then my concern
became how to keep them from running off for days on end.

I lost valuable training time becoming embroiled in the
anti-shock debate and the "Jerry sux" tirades.

I lost one dog but I have the bestest dog in the world now <g>
A Wits End Trained dog, one who is completely housetrained,
doesn't chew up stuff, stays in the yard, and doesn't bark all
the time.

IOW a great companion and friend.

Thanks Jerry!

=====================

misty" <Momisty@ wrote in message

We just installed a PetSafe brand fence this Spring. Two
dogs, two collars We now have one dog and no collars.

Peach and Zelda would run thru the fence, not
want to come back in the yard and would run
for days.

The last time, Peach didn't come back home.

I used the Wit's End Training Manual to learn
how to train my dog. She is now border trained.
A few minutes each day reinforces her desire
to stay in the yard.

She no longer runs out into the road, I can stop
her from chasing cats and she no longer cringes
when we walk around the yard.

I can not say loud or long enough how much
I hate the e-fence and its collars. If you can't
get a regular fence then you need to train your
dog.

I will never rely on an electronic collar to
keep my dog in our yard again.

The price was too high:-( ~misty

=====================

THEY DO STUFF LIKE THAT on accHOWENT of
STUFF MENTAL CASES LIKE YOU DO TO THEM.

LIKE THIS:

"You Lying Sack Of Dung.When Have I Ever Said
Anything About Using A Prong Collar, Or Any Collar
Correction At All, To Make Dogs Friendly To House
Cats? Don't bother. The answer is never," lying "I
LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.

lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn writes about kats and dogs:

"This Article Is Something We've Put Together
For SF GSD Rescue

From: Lynn Kosmakos (***@home.com)
Subject: Re: I have a dog he has cats
Date: 1999/11/20
How can I get him to quit chasing the cats.
Okay - this is going to be a bit loooong - Lynn K.

"Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog. Don't
forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong works
better than a choke with less chance of injury to the dog in
this situation.

Electronics can be used to create an aversion to cats, but
should be used under the direction of a trainer who knows how
to instruct the owner in their proper use. Electronics can
take the form of shock, sonic or citronella collars. At that
time the owner will train with electronics instead of food or
whatever other reward system was being used."

8) Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog.
Don't forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong
works better than a choke with less chance of injury to the
dog in this situation. Have the dog in a sit-stay next to
you with most of the slack out of the leash and let the cat
walk through the room and up to the dog if it wishes (this is
why you have the dog muzzled).

If the dog makes an aggressive move towards the
cat, it must be corrected strongly with both your
voice and the collar.

This is important - the correction must be physically
very strong - not a nag. (PS: not many dogs need
to be corrected at all)."

"The day may come when the rest of the animal creation
may acquire those rights
which never could have been withholden from them
but by the hand of tyranny.
The question is not can they REASON,
nor can they TALK,
but can they SUFFER?" -
- Jeremy Bentham

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised
for the good of its victims,
may be the most oppressive.
Those who torment us for our own good
will torment us without end,
for they do so with the approval of
their own conscience." -
- C.S. Lewis.

"Death is better, a milder fate than tyranny",
Aeschylus (525BC-456BC),
Agamemnon.

The greatness of a nation and its moral progress
can be judged by the way
its animals are treated." ~ Mohandas
Gandhi -- Adapted with permission from his FREE
copy of The Puppy Wizard's FREE Wits' End Dog
Training Method Manual. <}TPW ; ~ ) >

Force training JERRYIZES dogs...
and GETS THEM DEAD.

All truth passes through three stages.
First, it is ridiculed.
Second, it is violently opposed.
Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
-Arthur Schopenhauer

"Thank you for fighting the fine fight--
even tho it's a hopeless task,
in this system of things.
As long as man is ruling man,
there will be animals (and humans!)
abused and neglected. :-(
Your student," Juanita.

"If you've got them by the balls
their hearts and minds
will follow,"
John Wayne.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{}; ~ ) >
T***@Mail.Com
2005-07-21 22:41:48 UTC
Permalink
HOWEDY psychoclHOWEN,
It already did for me but it's somehow vastly more
entertaining just to read the responses rather than
the originator herself.
Heh. That's what I do, as well - read the responses,
skip 99% of Lucy's incoherent and ill-informed stuff.
This is gonna wind up like Survivor, isn't it?
INDEEDY.

THAT'S EXXXACTLY HOWE The Amazing Puppy Wizard PLANNED IT.
Eventually only one person will have the endurance
to put up with Lucy's brand of Logic For Special People.
LOGIC FOR 100% CONSISTENLTLY NEARLY INSTANT SUCCESS
for ALL handlers and ALL dogs ALL OVER The WHOWEL
WILD WORLD <{); ~ ) >
I think I'd rather just eat the worms, ya know?
Better START NHOWE to get the jump on the competition,
they won't share. It's a DOG EAT DOG world you live in.

WORDS OF WISDOM
from our own Lynn Kosmakos
1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every day
For Twenty Years

I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM

"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder (manic-depression)
requiring 1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every day.
I, also, care about dogs and use this forum to learn more,
while happily sharing pertinent information I have learned.

But if I were ever to post such sh*t, I would hope that every
other reader of this group would be rightfully outraged."

"Community is an evolutionary thing that we earn
the right to participate in by observing the easily
understood rules and contributing to in constructive ways."

Lynn K.
Hey, do like me, and killfile Jerry.
He has millions of people aleady reading his posts and
watching him extract his soggy foot out of his mouth!
Out of these MILLIONS, I've only seen 2 naive childs
come forward and actually believe in his training manual.
Robert Crim writes:

I assume that I and my wife are those two naive childs since
I freely admit to having read and, I hope, understood enough
of the manual and it's counterparts by John Fisher and the
posts of Marylin Rammell to believe and use it. This naive
child would like to say thank you to both Jerry and Marylin for
putting up with a constant barrage of really infantile crap at
the hands of supposedly adult dog lovers.

The other naive child (LSW) has to put up with the nagging
idea that if people like them had been posting earlier, maybe
we would not have had to hold the head of a really
magnificent animal in our arms while he was given the
needle and having to hug him and wait until he gasped
his last gasp.

To my mind, "naive" is believing you can terrorize a dog into
good behavior. Naive is believing that people that hide
behind fake names are more honest than people that use
their real names. Naive is thinking that dilettante dog
breeders and amateur "trainers" like Joey (lyingdogDUMMY,
j.h.) are the equal or better than those that have studied and
lived by their craft for decades.

"Stupid" is believing that people do not see kindergarten
level insults for what they are. Really stupid is believing that
people like Jerry Howe and Marylin Rammell are going to
just go away because you people act like fools. Why do you
act like fools? I really have no idea, and I don't really care.
And, to date: I've not seen ONE come forward and actually
admit to buying and having success with his little black
box.
I think I'm going to get one myself for Father's day and take
it down to the Animal Shelter for their use and testing. You
would never believe the results, so you'll never know.
Anyone by now that doesn't see a scam man coming by
Jerry's posts deserves to get what is sure to be coming to
him! LOL!
I don't see a "scam man", so I guess I and Longsuffering
Wife and Rollei will just have to get what we deserve, eh?
As Joey (Dogman) says, "poor Rollei.".......right.
Terri
Yes it was, and that is sad.

Robert, Longsuffering Wife and Rollei (do I
get to listen to the box first?)

-------------------------

Adios, dog lovers.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard <{); ~ ) >
W***@Animail.Net
2005-07-22 13:43:56 UTC
Permalink
HOWEDY sinofabitch,
marcel the imbecile idiot liar dog abuser coward
mental case phd psychoclHOWEN's dog grHOWELS at
him when he carries the newspaper, grHOWELED at
his brother the entire time he visited for two
weeks on accHOWENT of he LOOKS LIKE him, and his
FEAR AGGRESSIVE dog BIT his mrs. for TAKIN STUFF
he'd stolen from him.
Anonymous letters != proof.
CITE WON "anonymHOWES" letter, marcel?
Especially when he's has been caught red-handed,
CITE PLEASE.
more than once,
JUST WON CITE WILL SUFFICIENTLY PROVE The Amazing
Puppy Wizard is a LIAR, sinofabitch <{); ~ ) >

SO JUST CITE WON FORGED TESTIMONIAL, sinofabitch.
faking such letters.
WON CITE, please?

Or did you mean The Amazing Puppy Wizard FALSIFIES
YOUR OWN posts, sinofabitch, rendering them "MEANINGLESS,
when TAKEN HOWETA CON-TEXT"?
He was next to me and I could see his neck
muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.
Janet Boss
I can't imagine needing anything higher
than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive
dog like a Lab.
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
What I have said- repeatedly - is that he took
posts from two different people,
Of curse THAT'S a lie.
took pieces of them out of context,
Of curse. QUOTED. You wanna see it in context?
cobbled them together,
No. There was WON DIRECT QUOTE.
"Neatly," and "Smartly."
and a fake signature.
"sinofabitch" instead of sionnach.
Which is exactly what he did.
INDEEDY. That's HOWE COME you deny it.
The actual quote is misleading
That so?
when taken out of context,
We'd been talkin abHOWET beatin the dog with a shoe...
and Jerry's faked "quote"
The WON sinofabitch totally DENIES.
is downright meaningless.
Only if you're a MENTAL CASE.
Here's Jerry's version
"I Dropped The Leash, Threw My
Right Arm Over The Lab's Shoulder,
Grabbed Her Opposite Foot With My
Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into
Her Throat And Said "GRRRR!" And
Neatly Nipped Her Ear," sinofabitch.
Here's yours;
"I dropped the leash, threw my
right arm over the Lab's shoulder,
grabbed her opposite foot with my
left hand, rolled her on her side,
leaned on her, said "GRRRR!" and
nipped her ear.
--Sara Sionnach
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"

See?
I can't imagine needing anything higher than a 5 with
it, even with an insensitive dog like a Lab.
An INSENSITIVE DOG???

"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
I can't remember what model of Innotek I have, but
I had apointer ignore a neck-muscle-pulsing 9.
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"

Jerking choking and shockin and lockin dogs
in boxes and ignoring their cries makes their
dogs go "EWWWW" but they don't NOTICE
EXXXCEPT to spray BINACA in their eyes
and jerk and choke them on pronged spiked
pinch choke collars and shock and spray MOORE
aversives in their faces.

Do you think the citronella collar is CRUEL cause
the SMELL LINGERS after the dog's been sprayed
in the face and the dog won't know HOWE COME
IT was MACED?
My dogs are not human children wearing
fur- they are DOGS.
They're DUMB ANIMALS they HURT and MURDER.

But REMEMBER,: "The actual quote is misleading
when taken out of context"

Talkin abHOWET MOMS, tara o. aka tee's kid is
takin ANTI PSYCHOTIC meds in first grade. Then
you WONder HOWE COME she locked her DEAD
DOG Summer in a box when kids visited and jerked
and choked and intimidated her till she made Summer
FEAR AGGRESSIVE of small children then she
MURDERED her DEAD DOG Summer cause HURTING
HER DIDN'T WORK.
And if I self-refer as "Mam" sometimes, it's because
I consider myself as part of the dogs' pack,
Yeah... the big dog. The alphalpha bitch. Who
throws dogs to the grHOWEND and climbes all
over them like a raped ape and grHOWELS into
their throat and bites them on the ears and then
DENIES it... after claimin she was PLAYIN.

"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"

From: sionnach (***@email.msn.com)
Subject: Re: Correct use of prong collar
Date: 2001-05-05 13:03:14 PST
Who said that? I would never do or recommend
that, and neither would most of the regulars on here.
Sally Hennessey
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
I've posted my entire quote, since Patch failed to do so.
Take it out of context and you'd think I was flinging puppies
across the room!
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
here's what I said (keep in mind that we're talking about a
A small scruff shake is appropriate if he's
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
very persistant.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Um, may I suggest a re-wording that might make
it clearer- given that "scruff shake" is too easily
misinterpreted as "pick the puppy up by the scruff
of the neck and shake the puppy in the air"?

I think I'd phrase it something like "if the puppy is very
persistant, it can be appropriate to take hold of the
loose skin at the back of the neck and give a slight
shake to the *skin*".

Janet's not talking about actually shaking
the puppy, which I think we ALL agree is
abusive."

"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"

That's INSANE. Ain't it. So's this, here's professor of
ANAL-ytic behaviorISM research at UofWI marshall
"SCRUFF SHAKE and SCREAM "NO!" into ITS face
for five seconds and lock IT in a box for ten minutes
contemplation" dermer:

"At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function.
But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and
shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases
then you will have achieved too things.

First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased;
and two, you have established "No" as a conditioned punisher.

How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted
biting.

**********IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?************

When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before mild
forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).

"No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog"
to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works," marshall
dermer, research professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM at
UofWI. For MOORE animal abuse, please visit dr p.

BWAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!!!

That's INSANE. Ain't it.
He was next to me and I could see his neck
muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.
Janet Boss
I can't imagine needing anything higher
than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive
dog like a Lab.
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
He was next to me and I could see his neck
muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.
Janet Boss
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
I can't imagine needing anything higher
than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive
dog like a Lab.
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
He was next to me and I could see his neck
muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.
Janet Boss
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
I can't imagine needing anything higher
than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive
dog like a Lab.
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
He was next to me and I could see his neck
muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.
Janet Boss
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
I can't imagine needing anything higher
than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive
dog like a Lab.
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
Maybe it was a little emotive, i was just
taken aback by the kind of stuff out there.
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
If you don't know how many of the tools properly
work and are supposed to be used, that's understandable.
And it doesn't help that many of them are MISused by many
people.
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
I should have looked more deeply at this newsgroups
history, seems
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"?
there's a huge running fued between a jerry
howe and 'the regulars'.
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
Not really. A feud requires participation by both sides,
and the regulars all ignore him.
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
The only people you'll find attempting to converse with him
are newbies who haven't yet realized the futility of it.
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
He is, unfortunately, the USENET equivalent of
those sad people you see standing on street corners,
ranting and raving at passersby about conspiracies,
etc.
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
He's been here for five or six years, and has a
well-established and documented habit of posting
under false names; and his habit of crossposting
all over the universe also tends to draw in trolls.
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
He himself is not a troll in the normal sense;
he's a mentally ill person who has an obsession
with the dog NGs.
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
Then i guess i've not seen them used properly,
whenever i have seen one (rarely) the dog's always
straining and wheezing.
That's absolutely improper use.
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
Slip/choke collars are intended to be used ONLY
for training sessions, and the proper way to use
them is to keep them loose, "popping" the collar
(giving a quick upward tug on the leash, then
immediately releasing) to correct or signal the dog.
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"

"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"

"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
Some people who really know how to use them
can signal the dog with a very slight tug which
does nothing but make a noise; the dog reacts to
the sound of the sliding chain rather than to the
physical effect.
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
The chain is just a small physical distraction?
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
Not a distraction; a correction or a signal.
Perhaps you can give me an exmaple of proper use.
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
The simplest and easiest one is teaching a
competition heel; the collar is used to signal
to the dog when the dog is drifting into the
wrong position.
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
I'm not a big fan of slip collars, because IMO,
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
of all the types of mechanical training collars*, they're
the most easily misused/misunderstood & most difficult
to use properly. If I had my way, no slip collar would be
sold without DIRECTIONS attached.
YOU CHOKE THE DOG TILL IT DOES WHAT YOU SEZ.

BWEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!

"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"

The Amazing Puppy Wizard <{); ~ ) >
YourConscience
2005-07-22 14:21:45 UTC
Permalink
HOWEDY lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn,
Then there must be lots of such puppies among the dogs
of the posters in this group, and they seem to be staying
puppies till the end of their days - despite all your
expert training.
_____
Really? I know a lot of the actual real life dogs
of posters here.
INDEEDY.

cARE TO CITE THEM SO WE CAN REVIEW THEIR POSTED
CASE HISTORIES, like Master Of Deception blankman
and FRAUDreck hassan, HOWER SHOCK COLLAR SALESMAN
who NEVER knew HOWE to "collar condition" a dog to
his shock collars untill tara o. aka tee JUST HAPPENED
to QUOTE The Amazing Puppy Wizard as she was REVIEWING
the SHOCK COLLAR INFORMATION you've discussed RIGHT
HERE for use on her FEAR AGGRESSIVE DOMINANCE PISSING
RESCUE DOG Joe Joe.

You're "thick as thieves," eh lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn?
I can't imagine a single one of the dogs I've met barking
or chewing or pulling on lead or raiding trash.
On accHOWENT of you lock them in boxes and jerk choke
and shock and spray aversives in their eyes. Your PERSONAL
REAL LIFE PAL Master Of Deception blankman has a VERY LONG
POSTED CASE HISTORY of ALL those "ISSUES" with her own dogs
whom she NEEDED to DAY BOARD at the SICK ANIMAL HOWEspital
TILL SHE STIFFED THE VET and got THROWN HOWET.
Mine don't, including the 5 month old puppy.
Well, THAT'S on accHOWENT of you DO THIS to IT:

lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.

- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.

Lynn K.

"Unfortunately, some confrontation is necessary,
just to be able to handle the dogs. For example,
we need to crate train a dog immediately because
they are usually in need of medical care and they
are in foster homes with other dogs.

It's a safety necessity," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.

"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn.
(who is entered in her 1st trials at the end of the summer)
Ahhh, WONderful! You'll probably get HIGH SCORES in
the RING, where your dogs LEARN they'll be CHOKED and
SHOCKED if they DON'T WORK. HOWEver, as WE SEEN with
your own SELECTIVELY BRED HAND PICKED and TESTED SAR
dog JIVE GOT HIGH SCORES in the RING, he's USELESS for
WORKIN an SAR site OR a sheep herding trial on accHOWENT
of HE KNOWS YOU CAN'T HURT HIM in those venues, lying
"I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.

REMEMBER?

HOWE COME your SELECTIVELY BRED PROFESSIONALLY TRAINED
SAR dog JIVE WON'T WORK a SAR site any dogGamened better
than he can WORK a sheep field WITHHOWET YOUR SHOCK COLLAR?

BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHAA!!!

You've made JIVE "RING WIZE", in a sense. HE KNOWS HE MUST
WORK but ONLY in the RING where he's been SHOCKED CHOKED
AND BEATIN till he GETS HIGH SCORES...

Then he TAKES THE DAY OFF when HE KNOWS HE CAN'T BE HURT
JUST LIKE HOWE all them other SAR dogs DONE in their FAILED
SEARCHES for Chandra Levy DESPITE the MAP and KNOWIN where
she WAS, same same for that Boy Scout in Utah who WANDERED
OFF from a KNOWN STARTING POINT, JUST LIKE Jessica Lundren,
and of curse, the COULDN'T FIND the dead body of Laura Hacking
KNOWING appoximately WHERE in the dump she'd been thrown.
You seem to think this newsgroup is populated
by Joe Average Petowner.
NOT AT ALL. The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual Forums are PUPulated by LIARS DOG ABUSERS
COWARDS and ACTIVE ACUTE LONG TERM CHRONIC INCURABLE MENTAL
CASES, like yourself... with MENTAL HEELTH CASE HISTORIES
WRITTEN IN THEIR and YOUR OWN WORDS <{); ~ ) >
As I look over the names of the 33 people who have
posted in this thread,
EVERY WON of them has a PROVEN RECORD of HURTING
INTIMIDATING and MOST have MURDERERED their own
DEAD DOGS and LIE abHOWET IT, JUST LIKE HOWE YOU
DO IT <{); ~ ) >
there are only 2 people who have not trained
dogs to an advanced performance title - you
and Jerry Howe.
Yeah... your SAR dog JIVE GETS HIGH SCORES IN THE
RING but he's USELESS for sheep hurtin and SAR WORK
on accHOWENT of you jerked choked and shocked him
BEYOND REASON, JUST LIKE HOWE HOWER police, military,
and SAR dogs have been done, and THAT'S HOWE COME
they FAIED TO WORK, NOT FAILED TO FIND, those EZ searches.

Your so called TRAINING methods are HOWE COME
Diane Whipple GOT MURDERED by those dogs YOU
TESTED and "determined was dangerHOWES".

Your SO CALLED TRAINING methods are HOWE COME
Jessica Lundren GOT DEAD, lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn.

HOWE DO YOU EXXXPLAIN SAR DOGS NOT FINDING
A MISSING CHILD, TAKEN ON FOOT, 300' away,
and being secreted in a trailer with AIR
FLOWING THROUGH IT like a sieve?

THEY DIDN'T WANT TO MAKE THOSE FINDS on
accHOWENT of AS SOON AS THEY MAKE THEIR
FIND they go BACK IN THE BOX and resume
YOUR TRAINING METHODS for someMOORE jerking
choking bribing and withholding attention
and affection till they WORK someMOORE.
Lynn K.
HOWEDY lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn,
A vote is scheduled on Wednesday on this pharmaceutical bill
Well, that would naturally be of importance to yourself.
bein as you been takin so many anti psychotic pharmacuticals
for so many years.
that got a last minute rider that will overturn the
California ban on any breed specific legislation.
Breed specific legislation is the direct result
of your efforts in the shelter / rescue / trainin
industry, lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.
There is almost no time for public input on this one
It's IRRELEVENT, lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn. The
genie is already HOWETA the lamp. There's ONLY WON
way to get her back under 100% TOTAL NON PHYSICAL
CON-TROLL, lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn <{); ~ ) >
and all dogs are endangered by it.
You endangered them, lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.
Your own posted case history of BLAMIN the DOG or
the BREED is HOWE COME the pit bulloney hysteria
got started... between you and sue sternberg and
the ETHICKAL PIT BULL FANCIERS like your punk thug
coward mental case pal john richardson, pit bull
libertarian <{); ~ ) >
It allows any local jurisdiction to pass ordinances
regarding any dog breed.
Like those Cana Corso's that MURDERED Diane Whipple
that YOU TESTED and determined they was an aggressive
breed and should be murdered for only doin what any
normal dog would do, given the kind of trainin you
and your RESCUE and SHELTER folks offer...
This is not a pit bull-only threat.
RIGHT. A dog is a dog, dog abuser.
If you haven't yet contacted the offices of SF mayor
Newsom, the bill's sponsor Rep. Jackie Speir, and your
representatives if you're a Californian, please do so
as soon as possible.
And tell them you sent them?
For more info on both the legislative threat,
The ONLY THREAT is dog lovers like yourself.
contact info, and proposed alternative legislation see
http://www.badrap.org
THEY BAGGED YOU FOR LYIN, REMEMBER, lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn?

YOU WAS IN FAVOR of the cops SHOOTIN at their member's
dog in his own pupperty, REMEMBER, lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn?

BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!

HOWEDY lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn,
Train dogs, perhaps? But I guess you should ask HIM
---
But I have.
INDEEDY. The Amazing Puppy Wizard gave you some
ADVICE for "testing" a SELECTIVELY BRED hand picked
SAR candidate puppy <{); ~ ) >
Since 1999.
Your SELECTIVELY BRED HAND PICKED SAR puppy dog
JIVE is NHOWE enjoying RETIREMENT and doin a little
sheep hurtin in his spare time. CuriHOWES AIN'T IT,
that you can't make JIVE herd sheepses nodoGgamened
better than you could jerk choke bribe beat and shock
him to do his SAR work.
There were just a couple of teensy
little problems with his responses.
Yeah. You said you'd NEVER HEARD of such techniques.

THEN when folks started sayin they'd hear of some
of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End
Dog Training Method Manual Techniques you said
that you'd FORGOT abHOWET them on accHOWENT of
they was SO OLD and DON'T WORK, so noWON uses
them any longer.

And that's probably true, on accHOWENT of WON
CANNOT USE NON VIOLENT TECHNIQUES sometimes
and not others, or you'd be VARIABLY REINFORCING
bad behaviors by mixin punishment with "rewards"
traing, despite that The Amazing Puppy Wizard's
METHODS DO NOT RELY on "REWARDS" as they too,
reinforce BAD BEHAVIORS <{); ~ ) >
Oh well,
THEN you sez The Amazing Puppy Wizard's methods
MIGHT work for SOME behaviors but CAN'T TRAIN
"ADVANCED" behaviors, like SAR trainin, like
you needed your dog JIVE to learn and THAT'S
HOWE COME you jerked choked bribed and shocked
him and THAT'S HOWE COME you can't HURT HIM
ENOUGH to make him work sheep or SAR withHOWET
his shock collar on.

PERHAPS if you could just let him WEAR his
shock and pronged spiked pinch choke collars
during his SAR TESTING and sheep dog trials
he'd maybe THINK you can STILL HURT HIM and
he MIGHT actuall WORK a SAR site or work sheeps.
he's no longer claiming to have trained police K9 handlers.
PERHAPS THAT'S on accHOWENT of we're no longer
talking abHOWET trainin police and SAR dogs,
since your intrests have turned to sheep hurtin.

HOWE COME your personal real life pals Master
Of Deception blankman and professora melanie
GOT THE SAME PROBLEMS you got with JIVE sheep
hurtin and their sheep dogs?
A few pointed inquiries backed him off that one.
That so?
The man's a verifiable fraud.
You mean, on accHOWENT of HE MAKES THINGS UP?

"Walking The Walk," With lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn, SAR Trainer

HOWEDY People,

What kinda IDIOCY is this?:

From: Lynn Kosmakos (***@home.com)

"Remember this - The decision to "do right" that most
helps a dog's character is the decision that he makes
himself. You cannot teach a dog to not want something,
any more than you can teach a human not to want
something."

"I'm a Koehler-based trainer and used almost
exactly the same techniques with my very dog
aggressive bitch.

2. I have often rejected many of Koehler's Capt.
13 methods, from his response to digging to tieing
things in a dog's mouth.

FWIW, I use almost none of Koehler's training
techniques, having found methods I prefer, but
still find much value in his approach to dogs.

Briefly, I didn't refer to Koehler and didn't
mean Koehler when I used the term
"confrontational".

Natalie, it is next to impossible to form any kind
of educated opinion on the work of the late Wm.
Koehler from what is said or quoted in this newsgroup.

The conclusion you have reached illustrates that.

"Remember this - The decision to "do right" that
most helps a dog's character is the decision that
he makes himself."

Personally, I'm not a Koehler trainer,
I don't use a choke chain, and I don't
believe a dog learns anything by being
hung.

Please don't make the mistake of believing Jerry's
characterization of me or any other trainer. He has
never met any of us and has no idea how anyone
here actually trains.

Jerry labelling someone as a Koehler type
doesn't make it so.

Lynn K.

"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn.

lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.

- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.

Lynn K.
Subject: Re: That type of thinking kills dogs
Date: 1999/05/18
If you're prepared to be impressed by
seriousness in a dog, Koehler is for you.
Ron, your whole post was incredibly good.
It resonated with appreciation for honest working dogs.
I've begun to think that the bond and partnership
that comes from working with a dog is something
that has to be experienced and felt.
It cannot be explained and someone who is
limited to begging, cajoling, bribery and hoping
will never experience it.
Maybe that's really what is meant
when we say "trust your dog".
Lynn K.
"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn.

lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.

- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.

Lynn K.

"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in
one shelter.) But their ability to set their own
schedules and duties causes a great deal of
scheduling overhead.

And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
volunteers get the meaningful experience that
they work for.

Someone has to be responsible for that
Volunteer Program, and it is best done
by a non-volunteer."

Lynn K.

"I worked with one shelter where I bathed and groomed
every adoptable dog on intake. I frankly felt that the
effort/benefit equation was not balanced for some of the
older/ill poodle/terrier mixes we got in badly matted condition.

Should I have refused to groom them?

Or even more pertinent - I was one of the people who
had to make the euthanasia decisions at that shelter."

Lynn K.
Baghdad Bob <Baghdadbob> wrote in message
Post by YourConscience
Lynn, looks like he got you there if these
quotes are true.
In the posts below you take responsibility for
making those calls.
In your post above, you state you do not
make those calls.
Which one is it?
BBBWEEEEEEAAAAAAHAHAHHAHHAAA!!!
HOWEDY Lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn,
You've been discredited by gettin bagged
in your lies and discovered in your twenty
year fight against mental illness in so many
ways it's PATHETIC and CRUEL to The
Amazing Puppy Wizard to read the tripe you write.
michael erskin would be INSANE to believe you.
And he'd be NUTS not to apologize to The Amazing
Puppy Wizard for all the WORK he's cost HIM.
But THAT'S not necessary, on accHOWENT of
althHOWE it's a DIRTY JOB, someWON gotta
do it and The Amazing Puppy Wizard didn't notice
anyWON willing to go the extra mile to push michael
over the brink of insanity or back into reality.
That's a TOUGH CHOICE. Let's hope michael
doesn't buy the farm like the dogs you abuse.
Anyone got ideas on what to do with this dog
that might help him to decide that he wants to
follow and that he has nothing to fear from me?
Subject: Re: What *did* happen to Fritz?
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Date: 2001-01-05 13:39:53 PST
I remember reading posts about him, and seeing
his photos at a binary newsgroup. I know he died :-(
I never knew what did happen, and I assumed he
had a previously unknown health problem.
Robert put Fritz down for aggression problems.
Lynn K.
Subject: Re: DOMINANCE ANSWERS =
Crim Writes About Koehler's "Methods'
Date: 2000/09/20
I sincerely believe that this dog was an
genetic mess and that I still feel that the
end would have been the same, no matter
what method of training was or was not used.
I believe the same, and said so to Robert at the time.
He was in a great deal of pain and looking for
answers that were not readily available.
That doesn't mean that the answers he
grasped at were correct.
Lynn K.
Hey, do like me, and killfile Jerry.
He has millions of people aleady reading
his posts and watching him extract his soggy
foot out of his mouth!
Out of these MILLIONS, I've only seen 2
naive childs come forward and actually
believe in his training manual.
I assume that I and my wife are those two
naive childs since I freely admit to having
read and, I hope, understood enough of the
manual and it's counterparts by John Fisher
and the posts of Marilyn Rammell to believe
and use it.
This naive child would like to say thank you
to both Jerry and Marilyn for putting up with
a constant barrage of really infantile crap at
the hands of supposedly adult dog lovers.
The other naive child (LSW) has to put up with
the nagging idea that if people like them had
been posting earlier, maybe we would not have
had to hold the head of a really magnificent
animal in our arms while he was given the
needle and having to hug him and wait until
he gasped his last gasp.
To my mind, "naive" is believing you can
terrorize a dog into good behavior. Naive is
believing that people that hide behind fake
names are more honest than people that use
their real names.
Naive is thinking that dilettante dog breeders
and amateur "trainers" like Joey
(lyingdogDUMMY, j.h.) are the equal or better
than those that have studied and lived by their
craft for decades.
"Stupid" is believing that people do not see
kindergarten level insults for what they are.
Really stupid is believing that people like
Jerry Howe and Marilyn Rammell are going
to just go away because you people act like
fools. Why do you act like fools? I really
have no idea, and I don't really care.
And, to date: I've not seen ONE come
forward and actually admit to buying and
having success with his little black box.
I think I'm going to get one myself for Father's
day and take it down to the Animal Shelter for
their use and testing. You would never believe
the results, so you'll never know.
Anyone by now that doesn't see a scam man
coming by Jerry's posts deserves to get what
is sure to be coming to him! LOL!
I don't see a "scam man", so I guess I and Longsuffering
Wife and Rollei will just have to get what we deserve, eh?
As Joey (Dogman) says, "poor Rollei.".......right.
Terri
Yes it was, and that is sad.
Robert, Longsuffering Wife and Rollei
(do I get to listen to the box first?)
Subject: Re: Post time
Date: 1999/06/20
Thanks, but take a look at the post on "the
aggressive city dog" That is almost exactly
180 from what I did. What is the story here?
These two different approaches can't possibly co-exist.
I re-read it, and I guess I don't see the problem,
maybe because I have a misimpression of what
you did. I don't see the dicotomy you do.
I'm a Koehler-based trainer and used almost
exactly the same techniques with my very dog
aggressive bitch.
The only exception is that I do add a "Leave It"
command when she starts to think about reacting
to another dog.
But it isn't as if you give a command, then wait
for the opportunity to punish (Note -I never punish,
don't believe in it.)
The sequence is more: dog starts to tense,
"Leave It", "Good Dog, Good Girl", "Come on -
let's go about our business" as you move on.
There's nothing non-Koehler in that sequence,
nor is there anything that different from the other
sequence other than a key word to signal the dog
to choose a different path.
In other words, I don't see it as black and white.
There's lots of grays in there, and that's where
the flexibility comes from to modify training to
suit different dogs.
Lynn K.
Subject: Re: Canine Behaviorists! A weird one. =
Then Why Does The Dog Show Guilt?
That's What koehler Teaches.
Date: 2000-10-09 20:13:19 PST
It seems to me that this Koehler person is
doing the number one mistake in dog training.
* major snippage *
I haven't read this Koehler method, but I can
see from what I have heard that it is a method
that utilises the fact that the dog isn't as complex
as humans and uses this against the dog.
Natalie, it is next to impossible to form any kind
of educated opinion on the work of the late Wm.
Koehler from what is said or quoted in this newsgroup.
The conclusion you have reached illustrates that.
Reading his books is a very different thing than
reading the rehash and secondary opinions of
others, particularly since there have been so
many changes in dog training since the time
the books were written.
FWIW, I use almost none of Koehler's training
techniques, having found methods I prefer, but
still find much value in his approach to dogs.
Lynn K.
Subject: Re: Aggressive GSD - Help!
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Date: 2000-09-02 00:34:35 PST
Of course not. She will go with Lynn or
someone else that appears to be reasonable.
As a result, the Koehler types will win and
another dog will get needled.
Please don't make the mistake of believing Jerry's
characterization of me or any other trainer. He has
never met any of us and has no idea how anyone
here actually trains.
Jerry labelling someone as a Koehler type
doesn't make it so.
Lynn K.
Subject: Re: To Dogman
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Date: 1999/11/08
You may well be able to have a reasonable
discussion with him Lynn (without being called
names, being threatened and having vile photos
of what he says are you pinned up on a website),
but that's only because you don't publicly disagree
with Koehler's more brutal approaches and/or you
haven't publicly said you agree with even one of
Jerry Howe's techniques.
Marilyn, you happen to be very wrong on a number
of counts in the above. I think your current anger at
Dogman is coloring your judgement and objectivity.
1. Dogman has had a number of very inventive
names for me over the years, involving everything
from my politics to my choice of footwear. None
of us are exempt. However, I'll happily take those,
and the spirit in which they are meant, over Jerry's
truly insulting names and accusations.
2. I have often rejected many of Koehler's Capt.
13 methods, from his response to digging to tieing
things in a dog's mouth.
3. I can cite times I've posted in agreement with
some of Jerry's suggestion (often acknowedging
the original source of the technique).
4. Disagreeing with Dogman is no different than
disagreeing with anyone else. Witness the frequent
disagreements on field training techniques he and
Amy Frost Dahl have.
Lynn K.
----------------------------------------------------------------
--
--------------
"You Lying Sack Of Dung.When Have I Ever Said
Anything About Using A Prong Collar, Or Any Collar
Correction At All, To Make Dogs Friendly To House
Cats? Don't bother. The answer is never," lying "I
LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.
"This Article Is Something We've Put Together
For SF GSD Rescue
Subject: Re: I have a dog he has cats
Date: 1999/11/20
How can I get him to quit chasing the cats.
Okay - this is going to be a bit loooong - Lynn K.
"Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog. Don't
forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong works
better than a choke with less chance of injury to the dog in
this situation.
Electronics can be used to create an aversion to cats, but
should be used under the direction of a trainer who knows how
to instruct the owner in their proper use. Electronics can
take the form of shock, sonic or citronella collars. At that
time the owner will train with electronics instead of food or
whatever other reward system was being used."
8) Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog.
Don't forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong
works better than a choke with less chance of injury to the
dog in this situation. Have the dog in a sit-stay next to
you with most of the slack out of the leash and let the cat
walk through the room and up to the dog if it wishes (this is
why you have the dog muzzled).
If the dog makes an aggressive move towards the
cat, it must be corrected strongly with both your
voice and the collar.
This is important - the correction must be physically
very strong - not a nag. (PS: not many dogs need
to be corrected at all)."
"I worked with one shelter where I bathed and groomed
every adoptable dog on intake. I frankly felt that the
effort/benefit equation was not balanced for some of the
older/ill poodle/terrier mixes we got in badly matted condition.
Should I have refused to groom them?
Or even more pertinent - I was one of the people who
had to make the euthanasia decisions at that shelter."
Lynn K.
----------------------------------------------------------------
--
--------------
Explanation, not confrontation.
Subject: Re: I read rec.pets.dogs.behavior yesterday. Yikes!
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.breeds
Date: 2001-01-03 22:31:57 PST
I'm sorry if I made you feel defensive--any of
you--but it was such awful stuff to read.
What you have to realize is that it is all of the
same people - except the looney. He sticks to
.behavior, and we're grateful for that.
Don't take his shit seriously. He likes to scream
at imaginary demons.
Lynn K.
Subject: Re: Questions on rehabilitation was Re: To Dogman
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Date: 1999/11/10
It certainly does appear that your world
has harsher realities - you say that for
every 'one' dog you take into your program,
'FIVE' others die!!!
<snip>
Confrontational methods 'to turn a dog around'
with these dogs would be far from beneficial.
Unfortunately, some confrontation is necessary,
just to be able to handle the dogs. For example,
we need to crate train a dog immediately because
they are usually in need of medical care and they
are in foster homes with other dogs.
It's a safety necessity.
Can you please explain "spending months building
the dog from the ground up" What method do you
use that takes months?
Every dog is different, and their problems are
different, and many take time. We just had a
very fearful 4 month old that we didn't put up
for adoption for 6 weeks because it took that
long to build her confidence.
I've got an older foster now - dog aggressive,
starved to the point of muscle loss and food
protective, dominant, an escape artist and
roamer, totally untrained.
I'd love to be able to have 4 months to turn
him into the spectacular dog I know he can
be.
But I don't have the luxury of that time.
Instead I've had to do what I can in 2 weeks.
That means correcting him for issuing fight
challenges rather than careful desensitization,
confronting him about food protection rather
than letting it subside naturally, and minimal
obedience training limited to housebreaking,
cratetraining, allowing himself to be handled,
sit, down, stay, and leash manners.
And carefully placing him in a home I feel
can do the rest that needs to be done.
(He goes to that home on Sunday.)
I too would like the answers to Anonymous's questions (below)
I didn't answer those because I think that
Anon. post was Jerry Howe.
Briefly, I didn't refer to Koehler and didn't
mean Koehler when I used the term
"confrontational".
Using compulsion may have been a more
accurate way to put it.
It is simply a necessity, rather than a choice.
For example, the newly neutered dog-aggressive
foster I described above. I'd prefer to give him
time to heal, keep him away from other dogs,
then carefully monitor interactions, positively
reinforcing him for non-reaction.
But he had to come into my home, with 2
other dogs, immediately from the shelter
and surgery.
A small enough home that keeping dogs
competely separated is impossible. So
I had to do things like put him on a tiedown
as my own dogs moved through the room
and verbally correct him when he challenged them.
Do I think the dog is damaged by it?
Not really.
It isn't ideal, but he's alive and will make a decent pet.
Lynn K.
"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn.
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.
- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.
Lynn K.
"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in
one shelter.) But their ability to set their own
schedules and duties causes a great deal of
scheduling overhead.
And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
volunteers get the meaningful experience that
they work for.
Someone has to be responsible for that
Volunteer Program, and it is best done
by a non-volunteer."
Lynn K.
---------------------------------
"I worked with one shelter where I bathed and groomed
every adoptable dog on intake. I frankly felt that the
effort/benefit equation was not balanced for some of the
older/ill poodle/terrier mixes we got in badly matted condition.
Should I have refused to groom them?
Or even more pertinent - I was one of the people who
had to make the euthanasia decisions at that shelter."
Lynn K.
Baghdad Bob <Baghdadbob> wrote in message
Post by YourConscience
Lynn, looks like he got you there if these
quotes are true.
In the posts below you take responsibility for
making those calls.
In your post above, you state you do not
make those calls.
Which one is it?
------------------------------------------
WORDS OF WISDOM
from our own Lynn Kosmakos
1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every day
For Twenty Years
I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM
"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder (manic-depression)
requiring 1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every
day.
I, also, care about dogs and use this forum to learn
more, while happily sharing pertinent information
I have learned. But if I were ever to post such sh*t,
I would hope that every other reader of this group
would be rightfully outraged."
"Community is an evolutionary thing that we earn
the right to participate in by observing the
easily understood rules and contributing to in
constructive ways."
Lynn K.
-----------------------------------------
"It wasn't that meds didn't work for her
- she wouldn't take them. I particularly remember
a comment she made about scarey side effects of
Lithium. Hardly. After 17 years on it, I think
I'm qualified to say that the very low risk of
any side effect is far less frightening than the
very real dangers of life without it."
Lynn K.
-----------------------------------------
"Only the unenlightened speak of wisdom and right action
as separate, not the wise. If any man knows one, he
enjoys the fruit of both. The level which is reached by
wisdom is attained through right action as well. He who
perceives that the two are one knows the truth."
"Even the wise man acts in character with his nature,
indeed all creatures act according to their natures.
What is the use of compulsion then? The love and
hate which are aroused by the objects of sense arise
from Nature, do not yield to them. They only obstruct
the path." Bhagavad Gita, adapted by Krishna with
permission from His FREE copy of my FREE Wits'
End Dog Training Method manual.
Force training JERRYIZES dogs, and GETS THEM DEAD.
Subject: Re: ABSURDITY-TO-INSANITY
Date: 1999/05/22
By the way, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think
I learned about shake cans from Koehler's book.
Ruth, I just checked the basic book & didn't find it
there. I doubt if he would have it in the upper level
books, but I didn't check.
However, I did come across a Koehler quote that
I really like, that really points out what is missing
"Remember this - The decision to "do right" that
most helps a dog's character is the decision that
he makes himself."
By never holding a dog accountable for his actions
and always distracting the dog, rather than giving
him the opportunity to offer an acceptable response,
Jerry never lets the dog make a decision.
Lynn K.
"Speech is a mirror of the soul: as a man speaks,
so is he." Publilius Syrus, First century B.C., Maxim 1073
"We are what we do."
Subject: Re: I read rec.pets.dogs.behavior yesterday. Yikes!
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.breeds
Date: 2001-01-08 03:33:05 PST
You would go with those who DON'T use physical force.
You'll get much more from a dog if you train with love and
kindness. Yes, you can train a dog with physical force,
you can ear pinch train, you can train with spiked collars
etc., and eventually the dog will do your bidding, but only
because its terrified and doesn't want the pain any longer.
Pam and Jay,
Eamil me if you'd like to visit sometime and see some dogs that
will open your eyes. I don't claim everyone has to train my
way,
but my dogs are trained with force, and ear pinches, and they
are
as eager, enthusiastic, confident, etc. as can be. You will be
able to see it. There is no fear involved, and there is nothing
about physical methods that is incompatible with love and
kindness.
lying frosty dahl.
Subject: Re: "Alpha Rolling" DEBUNKED by Ian Dunbar
Date: 2004-02-22 14:12:07 PST
But modern, well-educated trainers have
come to accept that physical dominance
over the dog is not a good idea under any
circumstances short of an emergency.
Right. It's unsafe, misunderstood, ill-timed,
and too much, too late. That doesn't mean
that it can't be effective.
Lynn K.
The Monks' books are particularly bad
on the subject of pack dynamics and
dominance. Remember
"Others to avoid: Kevin Behan, C.W. Meisterfeld,
Jan F??? "The DogWhisperer", anything
published by TPH," Lynn K.
Subject: Re: need your help - lab is becoming dominant
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Date: 1999/12/27
I would seriously suggest buying this book! Great book!
"How to Be Your Dog's Best Friend" by the
Monks (actually Job Michael Evans) is a
decent book, but not a great book.
And you should know that they later repudiated
the alpha roll advise.
As well they should have. It was rotten advise.
Lynn K.
Subject: Re: Help?!
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Date: 1999/05/22
That's a fact. The monks are harsh, heavy
handed louts. The information in their books
is outdated.
No intelligent dog lover would endorse them.
I didn't see where Diane mentioned the Monks.
She referred to Job Michael Evans, who left the
monastery. There's a hell of a lot of difference
between the late Evans and the Monks, and I
know that Diane knows that difference.
Apparently you don't.
Lynn K.
----------------------------------------------------------------
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that your dog has been selectively bred
for generations to cooperate with humans.
Subject: Re: Help! (The day after)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Date: 2000-12-01 14:18:59 PST
Re-read the statement. It doesn't say the
strongest is the more dominant.
The more dominant one gets their way.
There are a whole lot of interactions that have
nothing to do with power plays.
Most of them, in fact.
And that's one of the biggest problems with
blind adherence to pack theories - they just
don't apply to a lot of situations.
Lynn K.
You're full of crap. You can't even teach
someWON HOWE to HOWEsbreak their
Subject: Re: When gentle training fails...
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Date: 2000/01/14
My brother has a new puppy. He's read all
the literature on gentle training for housebreaking.
Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be working.
They can't seem to get Toby to stop going to the
bathroom on the floor.
Unfortunately, nobody can tell why they're having
trouble without a bit more description of what they
are doing.
Lynn K.
From: Lynn K. (***@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: Free Feeding (Was Re: Repeating Commands)
Date: 2001-07-17 21:59:53 PST
For example, if one was to use the dogs regular
kibble as a motivator in class, the dog will probably
not be as motivated as he would be if a different type
of treat was offered (say, a piece of hotdog).
Not necessarily. Remember that there is value added
to the treat by virtue of getting it from the handler as a
reward.

That's the reason I handfed Java for a week.

To add value to the food.

It isn't just another piece of kibble when it
comes from Mom as a reward.

Lynn K.

From: Lynn K. (***@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: Kali gets her CDX!
Date: 2003-10-26 13:49:37 PST

"KrisHur" <***@hotmail.com> wrote in message

<news:***@corp.supernews.com>...> THANKS!

You deserve it! You have my empathy on the heeling
problem. 2 of 29 qualified in Open A & B this morning
at Sacramento - ring fouled overnight by conformation
people exercising their dogs.

A Borzoi vomited on the spot, a Rottie peed on it, and
almost every other dog (including Java) dropped their
nose to the spot and started tracking.

ARRRGH!

Lynn K.

"Just as he thinks my decision not to put a
dog that faded in the heat into active SAR
duty was somehow questionable."

"my decision to not continue with an
unmotivated dog and potentially risk
lives is hardly something I view as a failure.

So, does your dog BURN HOWET in the
heat on accHOWENT of he's SO HIGHLY
MOTIVATED or is he UNTRAINED?
Subject: Re: Fear-based Aggression
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Date: 2000-11-23 22:58:32 PST
But even if there is no physical evidence
of abuse, just the dog's reaction to the
approach of a strange human, how could
you read this as anything except fear?
Who knows? I'm not a mind reader and neither are you.
Stop projecting.
Uhm, it's my job to know when a dog is afraid :-)
And it doesn't take mind reading to do that.
Dogs are very happy to tell us what they are feeling.
Lynn K.
Subject: Re: A.K.C. PROHIBITS USE OF
Date: 1999/05/21
Koehler's idea of handling a dog involves a
dog working at liberty.
Absolutely, the most basic concept of Koehler's
approach is recognition of the fact that the dog
always has a choice.
Training is really teaching the dog what choices
get rewarded, and a correction is a signal to make
a different choice.
Learning the choices the handler wants is what
frees the dog.
Lynn K.
He will choose to do so, given the opportunity.
Subject: Re: this group
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Date: 2000/08/06
you prob aren't going to change people who
do slap their dogs, if this continues already
for such a long time i don't know who you
people are
Peter, what you have to realize it that you can't
form any opinionat all about people or their training
methods based upon Jerry's rants.
I know a number of the people he attacks personally,
or by reputation, and his accusations are simply false.
Personally, I'm not a Koehler trainer,
I don't use a choke chain, and I don't
believe a dog learns anything by being
hung.
But that's not what Jerry would have people believe :-)
Lynn K.
Confrontation denies him that opportunity
and is a pure threat.
Subject: Re: Dog's play out of control
View: Complete Thread (6 articles)
Original Format
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Date: 1999/10/13
Now every time our puppy gets in our bed
he initiates play with my husband
Common problem. All too often, dogs learn that they
can dictate the agenda and start to see their owners as
the source of entertainment.
One way to get a hold on this is to teach the dog
to "settle" and to learn how to be quiet and patient
when in the presence of the owner.
There are lots of good instructions on teaching
a dog to settle, by using long stokes along their
sides and a crooning voice, with a "no" everytime
they jump up or grab at hands,etc..
The Monks of New Skete and Brian Kilcommons'
books describe it well. Additionally, I like to have
a dog lay at my feet for 30-60 minutes daily, by
sitting on their leash while I watch tv, read, or am
on the computer.
The dog soonlearns that he's going to be there
for a while, so he might as well relax and wait
for you to decide it's time to play.
Lynn K.
He has no choice to escalate his warnings
under increasing pressure/confrontation.
Subject: Re: HOWE, ABOUT RESCUE
Date: 2000-10-02 21:43:11 PST
It's life, Cindy. What the dog has a right to.
``Every living creature has a right to the
consequences of his actions.'' Koehler.
Understand that and Koehler will become clear.
Oh.My.God. Do you really not understand
that being homeless is not an action, but a
condition?
Comparing roadkill risk to Koehler on corrections
is nonsensical. I could quote Koehler back to you
on appropriate correction levels, but it still wouldn't
be a valid analogy.
Lynn K.
When a GSD doesn't immediately cooperate,
it is usually because he doesn't understand
what is being asked of him.
Subject: Re: Help--Need constructive advice!
Date: 2000-12-12 23:56:46 PST
Geoff, none of us can tell you what is going
on with Dido given the limited description of
her behavior.
Unpredictable with strangers and tense and
snippy really doesn't tell us whether she's
being protective, territorial, possessive,
frightened, etc..
In fact, we can't really tell without seeing her in person.
And that's the best advice I can give you.
Get referrals to a good trainer/behaviorist
who can observe her in the home situation.
People like vets and friends really aren't
qualified to deal with behavior problems.
With a baby on the way you really can't
afford the risk of not getting expert advice.
Lynn K.
That's where training fits in.
Subject: Re: Help--Need constructive advice!
Date: 2000-12-13 03:08:57 PST
Hello lyinglynn,
Geoff, none of us can tell you what is going
on with Dido given the limited description of
her behavior.
What limited? The dog occasionally growls
and snaps at them when disturbed, and is
aggressive towards strangers.
Unpredictable with strangers
No. He's PREDICTABLE.
and tense and snippy
O.K. NOW you know what's the matter.
The dog needs to learn to relax.
really doesn't tell us whether she's being
protective, territorial, possessive, frightened, etc..
What the hell difference does that make?
The dog snaps when disturbed suddenly,
and doesn't trust strangers.
In fact, we can't really tell without seeing her in person.
Can't tell WHAT???
What KIND of aggression the dog has?
Does that mean you're gonna HANG the
dog any differently? HANGING the dog is
what koehler would have them do.
"I LOVE KOEHLER." Your words.
That's the treatment in the koehler book.
And that's the best advice I can give you.
You HURT dogs to train them. You think
THAT sounds like someone who's got
lots of good advice???
Get referrals to a good trainer/behaviorist
who can observe her in the home situation.
You mean someone like yourself? Trainers
who need to SEE behaviors are incompetent,
as are trainers who jerk and choke and shock
dogs and twist and pinch their ears and toes.
BUT you only do those things when you
PROOF a dog, HUNH?
People like vets and friends really aren't
qualified to deal with behavior problems.
Right. But some lying, dog abusing coward
like you is gonna jerk and choke the dog for
them???
And take a pocketfull of money.
And then tell them to kill the dog,
that they dun everything right???
The dog is 99% good, but we got to
KILL that one percent TO BE FAIR?
And then we can all pass around the
crying towel and talk about BAD BREEDING.
With a baby on the way you really
can't afford the risk of not getting
expert advice.
There's less than 10% chance of finding
a competent trainer or behaviorist.
Most of them use the nilif, crating, and
leash and choke collar corrections, like
YOU do.
Lynn K.
And you kill dogs you can't intimidate into
subordinating themselves to your AUTHORITY.
Your pal, Jerry "The Phony," Howe.
P.S. For the record, you are a proven liar and dog abuser. j;~}
Not only does the dog understand more, he
also gains trust and confidence through the
training process.
Subject: Re: whining problem
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Date: 2000-12-10 21:04:33 PST
He seems to know what the word no
means, but I suspect when I say no,
he simply doesn't realize he is whining,
Yep - most dogs have no clue when they
are whining. It's simply stress or excitement
being shed through their mouths, not a
conscious act.
Enjoy your walks. The whining will fade.
Lynn K.
----------------------------------------------------------------
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My recommendation is to get
involved in training with this dog.
Subject: Re: Dog will not stay in yard!
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Date: 2000-12-10 20:52:46 PST
how do we keep him from wanting to
get out of the yard?
You cannot teach a dog to not want something,
any more than you can teach a human not to
want something.
What you can do is prevent the dog from getting
what he wants by dog proofing the fencing, or
deny his opportunity to want it by keeping him
elsewhere than in the yard alone.
Lynn K.
Subject: Re: electric fence info?
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Date: 2000-11-21 00:39:11 PST
We have a backyard that is completely fenced
except for an eight foot span that seperates our
yard from my parent's yard. We do not want to
fence this span, as we use it all the time for the kids
An electronic fence sounds like a pretty good solution
to this situation. I assume that your parents' yard is
also fenced on 3 sides so that no other dogs could
wander into the combined back yards.
Lynn K.
2293.public.lawson.webtv.net...
I don't now whether Peach is dead or alive.
I do know she's not here with us. I really can't
blame anyone here for her loss. I'm the one
who ignored your advice.
I did it because of how you write/wrote.
I was unwilling to accept the idea
that my using a shock collar could have
any bearing on Peach not wanting to stay
home.
Up until I started using it my main concern
had been keeping my dogs in their own yard.
Once I started using the e-fence...well,
then my concern became how to keep
them from running off for days on end.
I lost valuable training time becoming
embroiled in the anti-shock debate and
the "Jerry sux" tirades.
I lost one dog but I have the bestest dog in
the world now <g> A Wits End> Trained dog,
one who is completely housetrained,
doesn't chew up stuff, stays in the yard,
and doesn't bark all the time.
IOW a great companion and friend.
Thanks Jerry!
=====================
We just installed a PetSafe brand fence this
Spring. Two dogs, two collars We now have
one dog and no collars.
Peach and Zelda would run thru
the fence, not want to come back in the yard
and would run for days.
The last time, Peach didn't come back home.
I used the Wit's End Training Manual to
learn how to train my dog. She is now
border trained. A few minutes each day
reinforces her desire to stay in the yard.
She no longer runs out into the road, I
can stop her from chasing cats and she
no longer cringes when we walk around
the yard.
I can not say loud or long enough how
much I hate the e-fence and its collars.
If you can't get a regular fence
then you need to train your dog. I will never
rely on an electronic collar to keep my dog in
our yard again.
The price was too high:-(
~misty
============
Subject: Re: Fence Jumping
Date: 2000-09-29 04:33:37 PST
Been well experienced in dogs escaping from our
yard I know exactly the frustration you are going
through. Sam used to jump over the fence so I
made it higher then we got Roz and she went
under it, through it and climbed over it.
I've decided there are only 2 ways to stop the escaping,
1 is to have an escape proof fence, the other to train the
dogs not to want to escape.
I suppose a third method is to keep them
inside but I don't consider that a solution.
Making the fence escape proof can be almost impossible
if the dog is determined, to stop it climbing over as yours
is doing put an extension on top of the fence that angles
inwards at about 30-45 degrees. Never use chicken wire
as the dogs tear through that like paper.
The only training method to prevent this I can recall is
Jerry's technique, essentially it involves walking around the
perimeter of the fenced area with the dog and using sound
distractions and praise to teach the dog it's boundary.
I have had partial success with it (i.e. I have deterred Roz
from escaping from various points along the fence) but then
again I haven't really followed it through completely.
One last glimmer of hope, as the dog gets older it may
become more settled, Sam never escapes now although
he's quite capable of getting out, he 2.5 years old and
seemed to settle at about 2. So there you are, only 1.5
years of escaping left!!!
Paul.
Subject: Re: radio fence
Date: 2003-11-05 04:17:45 PST
Hi folks,
In my opinion the use of a radioshock fence is a waste of
time, effort or money. I can understand it if you a rich snob
who cares nothing about their dogs safey or behaviours.
At work I boundary train all the dogs to the bricked area
(Four kennels with 26 cages with 1 dog in each, 1 services
building and 2 catterys which is surrounded by scrubland to
the east and woodlands to the north and a lake to the west).
This works well, because then when people buy them the dogs
are easier to boundary train to a door or fence or yard.
However on a personal note, my two shelter mutts, who I
trained using the WITS END DOG MANUAL available at
www.doggydoright.com will not go past the back door, or the
back gate or the front gate without permission.
And it is nice, for when you are having a party, you can leave
your gates open for people, and your dogs won't be the least
concerned.
I find this better then spending your well earned money on a
piece of junk Why not use it to invest in a horse? Or a new
house? Make a nice aquarium? Build a nursery for a child?
Save your money. Train your dog. Please. -- Thankyou,
Nevyn
Nevyn E.D. Veterinary Nurse & Animal Trainer
"You can judge a man's heart by his treatment
of animals"
__________________________________
HOWEDY Group,
Here some SUCCESS STORIES ive had using
JERRY'S MANUAL
1) My dogz, two bitches - Vicious, barking,
aggressive, pulled on leash, wanted to kill
any dogs they saw, fought between each other.
TWO WEEKS using Jerry's manual, they
were calm, friends, my companions.
2) ADDED A BEAGLE PUPPY (male) to my "PACK", the
girls had -NO PROBLEMS- with him from the moment I
dropped him by their noses.
3) My FRIENDS dogs 2 MALES barking and jumping
at the fence all night 3 DAYS TRAINING WITH JERRY'S
MANUAL they were CALMED AND HAVEN'T BARKED ONCE!
Added a NEW MALE DOG (2 yrs old) AND
WELCOMED HIM WITH NO WUCKAS !
4) POODLE that ATE food from the KITCHEN BENCH -
lock him in a box? NO! USE JERRYS MANUAL! 4 DAYS
AND HES NEVER DONE IT SINCE!
5) ABUSED DOGS AT THE SHELTER I WORK AT -
HAD TO BE FED WITH A BUCKET ON A STICK -
ONE WEEK ON JERRYS MANUAL, THE SUPERVISOR
TOLD ME TO PUT THEM IN THE PUBLIC KENNELS
FOR SALE !
Quite amazing to - I thought they were just dull coloured
dogs, but after I had removed the fear and anxiety their
hairs coloured up amazingly.
6) STAFFY FEMALE who would NOT DROP HER
BALL! She carried it around all day and night - 3
DAYS on jerrys MANUAL and she now DROPS
it when u ASK her to!
BWHWHAHAHAHAAHA !!!!
Nevyn
While you are doing so, stop and think
about how you've explained to him what
you want if he is resistant.
Subject: Re: CONFUSED???!!! = Forget the lies of Jerry
Howe... Here is what people REALLY say about the Kohler
Method Of Dog Training (long)
Date: 2000-11-02 16:20:14 PST
These people agree with this??????
then, shame on them!
Koehler On Correcting The Housebreaking Backslider.
"If the punishment is not severe enough, some of these
"backsliders" will think they're winning and will continue
to mess in the house. An indelible impression can
sometimes be made by giving the dog a hard spanking of
Who agrees with it? I don't know anyone.
Lynn K.
"Handsome Jack Morrison" aka dogman
On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 17:52:18 -0400, "Krishur"
Good books huh?
Absolutely. Some are, in fact, classics.
Which idea was your favorite, the one where they
tell you to alpha roll a "dominant" dog,
There's nothing inherently wrong with rolling a dog
(i.e., it *can* and *does* work in *some*
situations). Unfortunately, most people either do it
incorrectly, do it at the wrong time, etc.
or where they tell you that you didn't hit him hard
enough if he doesn't yelp or approaches you within
5 minutes of his punishment?
If physical discipline is deemed necessary (after
careful evaluation), it's much more cruel not to get
it over with quickly than it is to do it
incrementally and half-heartedly, which usually only
invites the need for even more discipline.
Maybe you liked when they recommend these beatings
for housebreaking accidents, chewing/destructive
behavior, stealing, trying to get on your bed
at night and dog on dog aggression.
At no time do the Monks *ever* advocate beating a
dog. A swat on the rump or a check to the chin does
*not* constitute a "beating."
I'm sorry if you don't agree.
And each of those behavior "problems" needs to be
looked at in its proper context.
"We repeat, these situations may merit physical
discipline. Since no book can pretend to analyze
every individual dog and situation, we feel
obligated to emphasize from the outset that
discipline is never an arbitrary training technique
to be applied to each and every dog for all offenses.
We do, however, believe that physical and verbal
discipline can be an effective technique.
The best policy if you experience any of the above
problems is to consult a qualified trainer or
veterinarian for evaluation of your individual
situation....
"If discipline is decided upon as a training
technique, it should be the proper technique. We
feel we have developed several methods that depend
less on violent physical force than timing, a flair
for drama, and the element of surprise.
We feel an obligation, as responsible trainers, to
map out these methods, rather than simply skip
the topic because it is unpleasant. Dog owners
want to know what to do."
In other words, physical discipline is reserved for
those serious, special occasions when other methods
have failed.
For example, they do not recommend using physical
discipline for *routine* housebreaking chores --
only on those rare occasions when an already
reliably housebroken dog is (after careful
evaluation) deemed to be soiling the house on
purpose, backsliding, etc.
I'll give you an actual example. Years ago, an
adult dog was brought to me as an *incurable*
house-soiler. It was either get the dog reliably
housetrained or the dog was going on a one way trip
to the pound. Being the kind, compassionate trainer
that I am, I was prepared to do whatever it took to
get this dog house-trained and save his life.
After several weeks of more or less traditional
training, and to poor result, I brought out the big
guns -- physical and verbal discipline.
Whenever the dog soiled the house (no, you
don't even have to catch him in the act), I
immediately (but very calmly) tossed a leash
on his collar, dragged him to the scene of the
crime, and (using a large chair as a prop)
tethered him to the leg of the chair, with his
nose about two inches away from the poop.
After a couple of swats on the rump, some
loud vocalizing, and a wait of about 20 minutes,
I'd release the dog and then ignore him for a while.
I had to repeat this process *three* times, I think --
and the house-soiling miraculously stopped. The dog
went home to enjoy a long and contented life with
his original owners, and I got to feel good about
myself.
So, yes, the Monk's books are good ones. Even for
novices.
Yup, that's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.
-- Handsome Jack Morrison *gently remove the
detonator to reply via e-mail
Koehler On Correcting The Housebreaking
Backslider.
"If the punishment is not severe enough, some of
these "backsliders" will think they're winning and
will continue to mess in the house.
An indelible impression can sometimes be
made by giving the dog a hard spanking of long
duration, then leaving him tied by the mess he's
made so you can come back at twenty minute
intervals and punish him again for the same
thing. (Dogs are REALLY stupid. J.H.)
In most cases, the dog that deliberately does this
disagreeable thing cannot be made reliable by the
light spanking that some owners seem to think is
adequate punishment. It will be better for your dog,
as well as the house, if you really pour it on him."
"The Koehler Method of Dog Training"
Howell Book House, 1996"
Occasionally, there is a pup who seems determined to
relieve himself inside the house, regardless of how
often he has the opportunity to go outside. This dog
may require punishment.
Make certain he is equipped with a collar
and piece of line so he can't avoid correction.
When you discover a mess, move in fast, take him to
the place of his error, and hold his head close enough
so that he associates his error with the punishment.
Punish him by spanking him with a light strap or
switch. Either one is better than a folded newspaper.
It is important to your future relationship that you
do not rush at him and start swinging before you get
hold of him.
When he's been spanked, take him outside.
Chances are, if you are careful in your feeding
and close observation, you will not have to do
much punishing.
Be consistent in your handling.
To have a pup almost house-broken and then force
him to commit an error by not providing an opportunity
to go outside is very unfair. Careful planning will
make your job easier.
The same general techniques of housebreaking
apply to grown dogs that are inexperienced in the
house.
For the grown dog who was reliable in the house
and then backslides, the method of correction
differs somewhat.
In this group of "backsliders" we have the
"revenge piddler." This dog protests being alone by
messing on the floor and often in the middle of a bed.
The first step of correction is to confine the dog
closely in a part of the house when you go away, so
that he is constantly reminded of his obligation.
The fact that he once was reliable in the house is
proof that the dog knows right from wrong, and it
leaves you no other course than to punish him
sufficiently to convince him that the satisfaction of
his wrongdoing is not worth the consequences.
If the punishment is not severe enough, some of
these "backsliders" will think they're winning and
will continue to mess in the house.
An indelible impression can sometimes be made
by giving the dog a hard spanking of long duration,
then leaving him tied by the mess he's made so you
can come back at twenty minute intervals and
punish him again for the same thing.
In most cases, the dog that deliberately does this
disagreeable thing cannot be made reliable by the
light spanking that some owners seem to think is
adequate punishment.
It will be better for your dog, as well as the house,
if you really pour it on him.
"Handsome Jack Morrison"
(DogStar716)
Post by YourConscience
Never mind dogman :)
You too? Some folks just never learn.
Uh huh :)
One of the signs of mental illness is to say "Uh
huh" a lot.
Post by YourConscience
PS: If the "trainer" you were talking about isn't
on this list, he (or she) is NOT an approved
Koehler trainer, no matter how loud you scream
otherwise.
May I laugh again? LOL! One doesn't need to be on
a list to use Koehlers methods or teach his
methods.
Let me be among the first (apparently) to tell you
that not every trainer who uses a leash is a
*Koehler* trainer.
Sheesh.
This person may call herself a Koehler trainer, but
if she's hanging 12 week old puppies, she's about as
far from a Koehler trainer as a dog trainer can
possibly be.
Again, this is just your IGNORANCE showing.
I can call myself a devout Christian, but if I'm not
adhering to the doctrine, I'm something else.
Post by YourConscience
http://www.koehlerdogtraining.com/patoflearn.html
Sorry, the very first sentences make me aware that
whoever wrote it knows nothing about PR based
"Amidst the current (and politically correct) trend
in Positive Reinforcement Only training systems"
You cannot use PR only.
Au contraire. Many, many posters to r.p.d.b. (and
many other places as well) *claim* that they use
nothing but R. You know, the PPers.
And they do it quite loudly, too.
Surely you aren't blind (and deaf), as well as
ignorant?
Those are hard handicaps to overcome, Dogstar.
And if you knew anything about PR BASED training,
you would realize that. It's not all cookies and
babytalk.
There is no stronger supporter of R than Handsome
Jack Morrison, but I also use every behavioral tool
in my bag, including R-, P, and P-, because I know
that even R has its limits.
You'd know that too, if you didn't have your head in
the sand.
But that seems to be the battle cry of the
Koehler-ites.
The Koehlerites have no battle cry.
They have behaviorism on their side, and that's more
than enough.
I don't need instruction on how to give my dogs a
proper leash correction as I do not rely on a leash
to control or teach my dog.
That may or may not be suitable for your needs, but
it's not suitable for the majority of dog owners,
especially since the advent of leash laws.
Besides, after just a few weeks of proper Koehler
training, Koehler dogs likewise are no longer in
need of a leash.
That you apparently don't know that, once again
shows me just how ignorant of anything to do with
Koehler you are.
My last two dogs have been trained offleash right
from the start, using rewards for what I like, and
nothing for what I don't like.
Good for you, and if that level of training is good
enough for you, fine. But it's not good enough for
many of the rest of us.
Again, I'm not saying Koehler doesn't work.
I really have no idea what you're saying anymore,
because you apparently know so damn little about
Koehler and behavioral principles in general that
it's hard to have an informed discussion with you.
PS: It boggles my mind at how stupid you must be to
keep denying that those certain harsh methods are
only for LAST RESORT situations, intended only to
SAVE A DOG'S LIFE, even after I've repeatedly given
you direct *quotes* from Koehler's book saying just
that.
It's like you don't even care how stupid people
think you are, or how devious you are, etc.
That can't help your cause any. You'd think that
you'd at least want to *appear* to be honest, even
if you're not. -- Handsome Jack Morrison *gently
remove the detonator to reply via e-mail
Lynn K.
Subject: Re: my new web site and long time, no see!
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Date: 1999/11/27
Miss Cindi's site is really 'Come read about
Dogman & Koehler & Ecollars' You must
think we're stupid Miss Cindi.
Hope you're earning enough >>>>>
Huh? Did you even go to Cindi's site?
It's for her rescue organization.
And Cindi is a full time student.
You're out of your mind.
Lynn K.
Subject: Re: hitting your dog. Is it Dog Abuse?
Date: 1999/07/20
Every time he took a shit on the floor,
I just rubbed his nose in it (like the
Koehler book said, I guess)
You guess wrong.
Lynn K.
Subject: Re: That type of thinking kills dogs
Date: 1999/05/18
If you're prepared to be impressed by
seriousness in a dog, Koehler is for you.
Ron, your whole post was incredibly good.
It resonated with appreciation for honest working dogs.
I've begun to think that the bond and partnership
that comes from working with a dog is something
that has to be experienced and felt.
It cannot be explained and someone who is
limited to begging, cajoling, bribery and hoping
will never experience it.
Maybe that's really what is meant
when we say "trust your dog".
Lynn K.
"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn.
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.
- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.
Lynn K.
"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in
one shelter.) But their ability to set their own
schedules and duties causes a great deal of
scheduling overhead.
And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
volunteers get the meaningful experience that
they work for.
Someone has to be responsible for that
Volunteer Program, and it is best done
by a non-volunteer."
Lynn K.
---------------------------------
"I worked with one shelter where I bathed and groomed
every adoptable dog on intake. I frankly felt that the
effort/benefit equation was not balanced for some of the
older/ill poodle/terrier mixes we got in badly matted condition.
Should I have refused to groom them?
Or even more pertinent - I was one of the people who
had to make the euthanasia decisions at that shelter."
Lynn K.
Baghdad Bob <Baghdadbob> wrote in message
Post by YourConscience
Lynn, looks like he got you there if these
quotes are true.
In the posts below you take responsibility for
making those calls.
In your post above, you state you do not
make those calls.
Which one is it?
Subject: That type of thinking kills dogs
Date: 1999/05/18
The eloquent way that Koehler rationalizes
and justifies violence and brutality is the
direct cause of many dogs being destroyed.
I know, because I have to deal with them
all of the time. People don't come to me
and say, gee, jer, my dogs great, let's see
how good we can make him.
I specialize in problem dogs.
They come to me because they've already
F'd their pet up based on Koehler type of
advice and while trying to get him straightened
out, have gotten burned again by one or two
or three more incompetent trainers that use
the F'n Koehler method.
When they get to me, they are at their Wits' End.
Usually, their only hope is that I'll take the dog
and find it a safe place to live, so they don't
have to kill it.
That's why I get disgusted with trainers like
you. I usually get the dog back in the original
home in two or three weeks, if the family is
willing to give the dog another chance.
Fortunately, I'm pretty convincing,
I guarantee everything I do.
That Koehler doesn't mention hanging for
ordinary biters is not saying much. Especially
because the dog would never have had an
aggression problem, were it not for the harsh,
abusive, cruel, methodology.
The reference to "The Real "Hood" for professional
trainer to handle the most extreme problem, a dog
who regards "the most reasonable demands of
elementary obedience as sufficient reason to attack
his master"?
What this brute calls "reasonable demands
of elementary obedience" is in fact a systematic
breaking of the dogs spirit, and any dog that won't
break during the seven week abuse program, will turn.
His method makes the dog turn on his handler
out of self defense.
Koehler is a monster, and birds of a feather, flock together.
Sincerely,
Jerry Howe,
Wits' End Dog Training
I guess the main thing that is
harsh is the hanging dog theory.
Of course I am certain there
are dogs that require this when
all else fails.
But remember, the point of hanging a dog
is to stop a full-force attack on yourself!
Koehler does NOT recommend hanging in
his section of dealing with the different types
of biters. His only mention of it is in a section
called "The Real "Hood"" for professional
trainer to handle the most extreme problem,
a dog who regards "the most reasonable
demands of elementary obedience as sufficient
reason to attack his master".
Koehler's righteous outrage about well meaning
people who create these monsters is far more
"Professional trainers often get these extreme
problems. Nearly always, the protest biter is the
handiwork of a person who, by avoiding situations
the dog might resent, has nurtured the seeds of
rebellion and then cultivated the resultant growth
with under-correction.
When these people reap their inevitable and
oftentimes painful harvest, they are ready to
avail themselves of the help of "the cruel
trainer" whose advice they may once have rejected
because it was incompatible with the sugary droolings
of mealy-mouthed columnists, breed-ring biddies, and
dog psychologists who, by the broken skin and broken
hearts their misinformation causes, can be proven
guilty of the greatest act of cruelty to animals since
the dawn of time." (page 52, The Koehler Method of Dog
Training)
Oh Yeah - I LOVE Koehler.
Lynn K
NHOWE BACK INTO YOUR STRAIGHT JACKET.
The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >
Subject: Re: Jerry's Dog Training Manual
Date: 2001-07-12 06:49:13 PST
While the concept of shake cans is not new,
I haven't read any other advice that says to
praise immediately regardless of what the dog
does next (the common advice is to praise once
the dog is doing a desired behaviour or at least
stopped the unwanted behaviour), this is unique
to Jerry (and Marilyn) and from my own experiences
is an important part of the process.
And how do we know this aspect of his advice is right?
Jerry is not God and his manual is not the Bible.
His advice could be subject to an empirical analysis.
--Marshall
=================
Subject: Re: Jerry's Dog Training Manual
Date: 2001-07-12 00:13:28 PST
Hello Marshall,
The way I view it from my observation of how
my dogs react is that the distraction interrupts
the dogs thought, not for good or bad, just
interrupts, the dog is therefore distracted for
a second and then will either continue the
behaviour or do something else.
The praise reassures the dog that the sound
distraction is not a threat or punishment,
however if everytime the dog resumes a
particular behaviour it's distracted immediately
(and praised immediately for reassurance) then
it quickly decides this behaviour is not fulfilling
and it ceases.
A dog will offer another behaviour in it's place
and if that is acceptable to us then we let it be
otherwise the distraction continues until a suitable
alternate behaviour is offered.
One example, Sam used to jump up on me
when I arrived home, I would shake can to
distract him right at the moment he was
about to jump up, after about 4 repetitions
he tried sitting and offering me his paw, of
course this was fine so I let it be.
While the concept of shake cans is not new,
I haven't read any other advice that says to
praise immediately regardless of what the
dog does next (the common advice is to
praise once the dog is doing a desired
behaviour or at least stopped the unwanted
behaviour), this is unique to Jerry (and Marilyn)
and from my own experiences is an important
part of the process.
Thanks Paul! He does recommend praising
a dog for barking, but he appears to recognize
that this may not work and so distraction
Post by YourConscience
Until i read the Jerry method of Bark reduction,
it went something like this with our 11 month old
puppy "Yoshi"
Yoshi: Bark, bark,
us: HUSH Youshi
Yoshi Bark, bark......................
us: Hush Youshi
Yoshi BARK, BARK, BARK, .................................
it stopped when Yoshi got tired barking
We decided to try the Jerry method
:Yoshi: BARK, BARK
US: GOOD Yoshi, Good Boy, who is it?
Yoshi Bark, Bark
US: It's ok, good boy Yoshi, We know them
Yosh without fail, now stops after we say that
I must say, it is so much more fun, when we
can praise him, to deal with things like this
Thanks Jerry
ps: We are just starting to go thru the Jerry
Papers, and learn how to live with our son
"Yoshi", whom we love very much. --
Best Regards,
Estel J. Hines
==============
There really is NOTHING new about the advice above!
Nuthin EXXXCEPT HOWE IT'S DONE.
Jerry believes he's a dog trainer.
Fortunately, I happen to believe he is too.
I took a rescued three year old beagle that
had been kept outside all of its life that didn't
even recognize or respond to its name to
Jerry's home (That ugly cinder block shack???
get real) and in just over one hour of working
with the dog, he was coming on command
(not a quickly as he does now, but still...) and
walking with us on a loose lead.
His "hot/cold" exercise and "come when called"
command and pack exercise WORK!
and in all likelihood he's never even been near a dog.
Well, he's been near mine, and done wonders for him.
You don't have to like him. You don't have
to agree with his methods, but as far as I
am concerned, I've never seen any other
training approach that was as fast and easy.
<<<< Rest of original post deleted >>>>
Ron Flanagan
Orlando, Florida
-----------------------
wrote in message
Your dog needs to be retrained. Contact Mr. Jerry Howe.
Http://www.DoggyDoRight.com
You can start by downloading the free training
manual available on the site above. I used it on
my 4 year old Fila Brasileiro.
When I first brought him home from rescue, he
was similar to the way you decribed your dog.
After using Mr. Howe's training method, the dog
was cured within 72 hours.
-Jack
..
Tracy,
What worked for me, in just one storm,
was to praise the dog after each clap
of thunder, telling him he's a Good Dog!
This is an almost 13 year old Doberman, BTW.
The next time it thundered, he did not even react at
all--you could not tell it was the same dog as before.
There was more thunder just the other day, and same
thing, nada, nothing, zilch, no cowering, whimpering,
trying to hide at all, it was that simple.
I got this idea from Jerry Howe, who might seem
to be a "wild and crazy" character, but his non-
abusive way of handling dogs WORKS.
Wonderfully.
Praise.
It's that simple.
Juanita
Jerry, I am forever in your debt. The system you have
created for training dogs is absolutely amazing!
I can't wait until the new version is available for human
children!
Thank you for your service to humanity!
Here's professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM research
at UofWI, marshall "SCRUFF SHAKE and SCREAM
"NO!" into ITS face for five seconds and lock IT in a
"At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function.
But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and
shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases
then you will have achieved too things.
First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased;
and two, you have established "No" as a conditioned punisher.
How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted
biting.
**********IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?************
When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before mild
forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).
"No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog"
to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works," marshall
dermer, research professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM at
UofWI. For MOORE animal abuse, please visit dr p.
BWAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!!!
That's INSANE. Ain't it.
The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{}TPW ; ~ } >
Please note that due to the large number of
requests I receive, I can no longer give free,
personal advice on problems related to dog
training and behavior.
In order for me to give such advice we would
have to "talk" about the problem at length.
That is, I would need detailed information about
the dog, it's environment and routine, the problem,
and the situation in which the problem occurs.
Thus, this type of consultation takes time which
I cannot afford to give away for free.
If you wish such advice, please see the information
I have provided about my K9 Behavioral Consulting
practice. Another alternative to obtaining personal
advice is to participate in e-mail, chat room, &
newsgroup discussions.
P.P.S. BWEEEEEEEAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!
YOU'RE FRAUDS, drs p. and dermer!
Either DEFEND your LIES, ABUSE And
Degrees or get the heel HOWETA THIS
BUSINESS.
"If you talk with the animals, they will talk with you
and you will know each other.
If you do not talk to them, you will not know them,
and what you do not know you will fear.
What one fears, one destroys."
Chief Dan George
"(Also, it is best to killfile posts from the
few regulars here who are either ill-
tempered, ill-mannered, or just plain ill.),"
--Marshall
<snipped>
Something else that was completely stupid,
ignorant false and nongermane.
JH, you are a goosestepping, facist, brownshirt,
terrorist supporting, nazi thug. YOU hurt and kill
dogs then try and cover it up by dreaming up false
quotes to support your own retard methods.
Go and practice your wild facism somewhere else.
---------------------------------------------------------------
"(Also, it is best to killfile posts from the
few regulars here who are either ill-
tempered, ill-mannered, or just plain ill.),"
--Marshall
The Puppy Wizard sez "A dog is a dog as a child
is a child. They only respond in PREDICTABLE
NORMAL NATURAL INNATE INSTINCTIVE
REFLEXIVE ways to situations and circumstances
of their environment which we create for them.
ALL BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS ARE CAUSED BY
MISHANDLING. Damn The Descartean War of
"Nature Vs Nurture." We Teach By HOWER Words
And Actions And GET BACK What We TAUGHT.
In The Problem Animal Behavior BUSINESS
FAILURE MEANS DEATH. SAME SAME SAME
SAME, For The Problem Child Behavior BUSINESS.
"If you talk with the animals, they will talk with you
and you will know each other.
If you do not talk to them, you will not know them,
and what you do not know you will fear.
What one fears, one destroys."
Chief Dan George
"(Also, it is best to killfile posts from the
few regulars here who are either ill-
tempered, ill-mannered, or just plain ill.),"
--Marshall
----- Original Message -----
To: "The Puppy Wizard"
23, 2004 2:53 PM Subject: God Bless The Puppy Wizard
Dear Mr. Puppy Wizard,
I have, of late, come to recognize your genius
and now must applaud your attempts to save
animals from painful training procedures.
You are indeed a hero, a man of exceptional talent,
who tirelessly devotes his days to crafting posts to
alert the world to animal abuse.
We are lucky to have you, and more people should
come to their senses and support your valuable
work.
Have you thought of establishing a nonprofit
charity to fund your important work?
Have you thought about holding a press conference
so others can learn of your highly worthwhile
and significant work?
In closing, my only suggestion is that you
try to keep your messages short for most
readers may refuse to read a long message
even if it is from the wise, heroic Puppy Wizard.
I wish you well in your endeavors.
--Marshall Dermer
Marshall Dermer/Associate Professor/Behavior
Analysis Specialty/Department of Psychology/
University of Wisconsin- -Milwaukee/ Milwaukee,
WI 53201
--------------------------------------
"If you've got them by the balls their hearts
and minds will follow,"
John Wayne.
The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >
GOT MILK?
YourConscience
2005-07-22 16:23:21 UTC
Permalink
HOWEDY lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn,
Couldn't this serve as a common ground for a discussion
about what human-dog relationship should be and the various
training philosophies based on that?
From: "Jerry Howe" <***@cfl.rr.com>
Date: 2000/06/18
Subject: Professor Dermer And Our Gang Of Thugs

Hello Professor,

O.K. doc, grab a ringside seat and have some cotton
candy to enjoy, while watching the death-defying high
wire act, performed without a safety net...

Let's have a go at it, shall we? I'm going to explain
a couple of things to you, that I'd kind of like you
to keep in mind, even though you probably won't
understand what it is that I'm saying. Otherwise, you'd
have understood by now. It would have been obvious to
you, had you read my manual.

Your words, doc: "Jerry, the Merchant of the Magic
Box, always considers 3)"

This con man is so smart, he's going to put himself out
of business by giving away free training information that
will obviate the need for his machine and cost him sales,
in many cases?

Good competition is good for business, so why not compete
with my own interests? I'd have a hard time finding a more
worthy adversary. The motivation for such a poor business
decision isn't sheer stupidity, doc, it is indeed, number
three.

As a simple, uneducated professional dog trainer, doc, I'm
very aware of the urgent need to bring harmony to dogs' and
their people's lives. I realize the need for people to improve
the quality of their and their dogs' lives, through learning
proper handling and training techniques.

Dogs' lives are at stake here, doc... As a professional dog
trainer, doc, I don't settle for second rate advice for my
dogs or my students. There is no excuse for anything less than
excellence in one's field, especially my fields of expertise...

1) effectiveness--does it work?

The methods in my manual, doc, are scientifically and
psychologically based. The techniques are precise, and
the results are repeatable consistently, on any dog,
even wolves.

The effects happen almost instantly, certainly within three or
four repetitions, if done correctly. Many other animals can be
handled the same way (my rats would come when called, and no,
I didn't use food bribes on them either), all you gotta do is
be bright enough, observant enough and be accurate in your timing
to use the tools properly.

A five year old child could do it, with a little help from mommy.

You'd have been able to learn a lot from reading my text, doc. You
would have learned by now (after wasting eighteen months), that the
Wits' End Dog Training Method has as much to do with family, as it
does with training dogs.

There is little difference between properly raising a child
and properly raising a dog. The ideology taught in the Wits'
End Dog Training Method manual applies to your kids, your
wife, and anybody important in your life. The concepts of
respect and consideration as taught in my manual, will have
significant inferences on the way we raise our children, work,
think, live, govern ourselves, and will positively impact our
society and eventually the entire world.

The Wits' End Method is not just a Howe to
manual, it was written to make you THINK!

Think about what you are doing with your dogs, kid,
mates, employers, employees, co-workers, neighbors,
government, and the entire world.

2) efficiency--does it work quickly and with minimal resources?

Even better than that, doc. It' FREE! And no other method
works as quickly and effortlessly. Why don't I just sit
down, write a book and send it out to an editor, and put
in some old photos, and sell it and get fat?

For one thing, doc, I don't need to get fat. My machine will
make me fatter than you could ever conceive of. The information
in my manual is unsurpassed, and cannot wait for me to polish it
up and do it up so you can say it looks pretty and reads like
Louisa May Alcott wrote it.

All the information is in there, it's solid and vital,
and timely...

3) relationship--does it strengthen or weaken the extent our
pet/friends will bond with us? [That's why we
try to almost always use positive reinforcement
rather than punishment.]

Number three, (of course?), needs no further explanation, doc,
cause you already agree that it is important. That's where you
are dead wrong, once again, doc. Just because you agree with
the point, does not mean you understand why it is important.

You still qualify "always use positive reinforcement," by
preceding it with "try to almost." That's because of your
limited appreciation and tremendous misunderstanding of what
is really happening.

You are like a recalcitrant little child, doc. That's why I'm
here, and you're there.

----------------------

FERSTAICH?
the mistreatment of dogs or how dogs learn?
We can do BOTH at the same time. Let's talk abHOWET
SAR trainin, seein as that's what the media is gonna
be MOORE interested in. What would you, lying "I LOVE
KOEHLER" lynn, say to Jessica Lundrens DADDY abHOWET
HOWE COME those SAR DOGS DIDN'T FIND HIS BABY PRYOR
TO HER GETTIN MURDERED JUST 300' from her HOWES where
she was CARRIED FROM ON FOOT, and KEPT ENCLOSED in
a SIEVE with AIR passin through like wind tunnel

THOSE DOGS DIDN'T WANT TO MAKE THEIR FINDS on acchOWENT
of as soon as they do it's BACK IN THE BOX and MOORE
ADVANCED TRAINING JUST LIKE HOWE YOU DONE YOUR OWN SAR
dog JIVE.

BWEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
You seem to be perpetually confusing the two very
different subjects.
No, they're the same same.
Perhaps because you have the correlation between
relationship and training completely backwards.
Oh? Where does CORRECTION equate LOVE? "Spare the rod,"
lyng "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn? Is THAT HOWE COME YOU HURT
INTIMDIATE and MURDER DOGS?
The relationship is based on the interaction between
dog and man (training)
You mean, JERKING CHOKING SHOCKING and BRIBING
like HOWE you "TRAINED"your SAR dog JIVE?:

From: Lynn K. (***@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: Free Feeding (Was Re: Repeating Commands)
Date: 2001-07-17 21:59:53 PST
For example, if one was to use the dogs regular
kibble as a motivator in class, the dog will probably
not be as motivated as he would be if a different type
of treat was offered (say, a piece of hotdog).
Not necessarily. Remember that there is value added
to the treat by virtue of getting it from the handler
as a reward.

That's the reason I handfed Java for a week.

To add value to the food.

It isn't just another piece of kibble when it
comes from Mom as a reward.

Lynn K.

From: Lynn K. (***@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: Kali gets her CDX!
Date: 2003-10-26 13:49:37 PST

"KrisHur" <***@hotmail.com> wrote in message
<news:***@corp.supernews.com>...> THANKS!

You deserve it! You have my empathy on the heeling
problem. 2 of 29 qualified in Open A & B this morning
at Sacramento - ring fouled overnight by conformation
people exercising their dogs.

A Borzoi vomited on the spot, a Rottie peed on it, and
almost every other dog (including Java) dropped their
nose to the spot and started tracking.

ARRRGH!

Lynn K.
rather than the training being based on the relationship.
You mean food bribes and pain avoidance.
To put it in human terms,
You AIN'T HUMAN, lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn, you're
a PATHOLOGICAL LIAR and dog abusing mental case accordin
to YOUR OWN POSTED CASE HISTORY.
every parent loves their newborn infant but their relationship
with children they've raised to adulthood is a much richer and
multi-faceted thing.
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHAHAAA!!!

Parents got THE SAME PROBLEMS with their kids
as HOWER DOG LOVERS got with their dogs for
THE SAME SAME SAME SAME REASONS. YOU HURT
INTIMIDATE BRIBE FORCE AVOID IGNORE and MAKE
THEM INSANE, just like HOWE YOUR PARENTS RAISED
YOU to be a lying dog abusing mental case.

INBREEDING IS NOT PHYSICAL, IT'S SPIRITUAL.

You're BORN OF ABUSERS and YOU BECOME ABUSERS
on accHOWENT OF THAT'S WHAT YOU BEEN TAUGHT.
To do otherWIZE would be DISRESPECTFUL of
your MENTALLY ILL ABUSIVE PARENTS and would
EARN someMOORE PUNISHMENT. WOULDN'T IT.
Only sick, selfish losers perpetuate infantile
dependency instead of allowing growth into a peer.
Oh, kinda like HOWE your dogs retain their PUPPYHOOD FOREVER.
The same thing is true of our relationship with dogs.
INDEEDY! THAT'S HOWE COME The Amazing Puppy Wizard
uses DOG STUDIES to PROVE what we been TAUGHT by
human psychologists is DEAD WRONG and the CAUSE of
ALL childhood delinquency and ADULT CRIMINAL /
PATHOLOGICAL BEHAVIORS: CITE Journal Of Psychology
Sep '97.
I think it's the worst kind of abuse to
view them as beloved dependents
INDEED? Your dogs and children ARE DEPENDENT...
but NOT BELOVED or YOU WOULDN'T HURT INTIMIDATE
and MURDER THEM. Would you.
who can never be given responsibility,
You mean, being held RESPONSIBLE FOR BAD BEHAVIORS.

DOGS and CHILDREN DO NOT HAVE BAD BEHAVIORS, lying
"I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn. "Their BEHAVIORS REFLECT your
training quirks":

"It is by muteness that a dog becomes
so utterly beyond value."

Like a confessor Priest?

"With him, words play no torturing tricks..., "
--John Galsworthy.

Don't bet your dog won't tell on you...
Their behaviors reflect
HOWER words, actions and training quirks.
Jerry HOWE, The Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >
including responsibility for their actions.
"How fricken sick do you need to be to say a dog chooses to
be shocked or pronged or shot in the ass with a sling shot?

Chooses it over what?

Are you twisted pieces of human refuse offering a dog a
selection of torture devices, and observing them indicating
their personal preference of pain infliction?

I thought the whole idea behind aversion training was that
the subject does not choose it.

You Lynn thinking people are a bunch of abusive idiots.

*YOU* choose to hurt dogs. Fine.

But the fact that you want to sell the idea that the dogs
that god and human society have entrusted, have gifted to
you, are actually empowered by your abuse, is an example
of sociopathic illogic beyond anything this ng has yet offered.

You're like some fricken wife beater who actually says "Don't
make me hit you, Bitch!" What part of what backwoods portion
of which idiot nation do you people reside in?

THE DOG CHOOSES? What is next?

we have so far
1. I hurt dogs to save their lives.
2. I hurt dogs to save people's lives.
3. I hurt dogs to accomodate their choice in being hurt.

Just hurt the dogs and don't try to explain it.
Please, you're scaring me with this stuff.

No wonder why you guys get so bent out of shape when
others speculate as to your motivation behind hurting dogs.

Their speculation seems more plausable then what you yourself
offer.

You're so sick, so drunk with your "tools" of power, that
you don't even see the abusive egoism in your explanations.

You people are way far gone. It will be 20 years before
you'll be embarrassed or ashamed by what you write in
here daily."
They are sentient beings who deserve that respect.
Oh? You mean LIKE THIS:

lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.

- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.

Lynn K.

"Unfortunately, some confrontation is necessary,
just to be able to handle the dogs. For example,
we need to crate train a dog immediately because
they are usually in need of medical care and they
are in foster homes with other dogs.

It's a safety necessity," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.

"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn.

"Remember this - The decision to "do right" that most
helps a dog's character is the decision that he makes
himself. You cannot teach a dog to not want something,
any more than you can teach a human not to want something."

"I'm a Koehler-based trainer and used almost
exactly the same techniques with my very dog
aggressive bitch.

2. I have often rejected many of Koehler's Capt.
13 methods, from his response to digging to tieing
things in a dog's mouth.

FWIW, I use almost none of Koehler's training
techniques, having found methods I prefer, but
still find much value in his approach to dogs.

Briefly, I didn't refer to Koehler and didn't
mean Koehler when I used the term
"confrontational".

Natalie, it is next to impossible to form any kind
of educated opinion on the work of the late Wm.
Koehler from what is said or quoted in this newsgroup.

The conclusion you have reached illustrates that.

"Remember this - The decision to "do right" that
most helps a dog's character is the decision that
he makes himself."

Personally, I'm not a Koehler trainer,
I don't use a choke chain, and I don't
believe a dog learns anything by being
hung.

Please don't make the mistake of believing Jerry's
characterization of me or any other trainer. He has
never met any of us and has no idea how anyone
here actually trains.

Jerry labelling someone as a Koehler type
doesn't make it so.

Lynn K.
And maybe you have the horse glasses of the expert who
is blind to the obvious. You are not correcting me, Lynn,
because "correcting" means not only telling one "You are
wrong", but also explaining why s/he is wrong and also
showing how it should be to be "right".
This is a great example of how your lack of understanding
gets in the way of any meaningful discourse.
Well, it AIN'T so much the "LACK OF UNDERSTANDING,"
lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn, it's MOORE Like the
LACK OF HONEST DISCUSSION that you avoid and lie
abHOWET when cornered with YOUR OWN POSTED CASE HISTORY.
A correction does NOT include explanation or teaching.
RIGHT. IT'S PAIN, to SATIFY YOUR NEEDS FOR RESPECT.
It is simply a signal that the current behavior is incorrect
Dogs work on INSTINCT. They ONLY RESPOND in NORMAL NATURAL
INNATE INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE ways to situations and circumstances
of their environments which we provid for them.

There behaviors ARE NEVER INCORRECT.
and that another behavior, which is already known,
You mean a behavior YOU TRAINED them to do, 100%
CONSISTENTLY, RELIABLY, by PAIN FEAR FORCE INTIMDIATION
and AVOIDANCE.
is in order.
Well THAT'S HOWE COME your dogs MAKE MISTAKES.

Like your SAR dog JIVE, for EXXXAMPLE. HE KNOWS
YOU CAN'T HURT HIM when he's doin a SAR site or
SHEEP HURTING TRIAL and he blows you off JUST
LIKE HOWE all them SAR dogs in ALL the most
notoriHOWES REAL LIFE and DEATH SEARCHES recently.
And that's where I continually make the mistake with you -
Well, the ONLY MISTAKE you've been makin is POSTING
to The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manul Forums and School Of HARD KNOCKS and
HUMAN BEHAViOR RESEARCH LABORATORIES, lying "I LOVE
KOEHLER" lynn <{); ~ ) >
in assuming that you know better.
Naah. The ONLY problem Lucy has is she
don't know ALL of your own POSTED CASE
HISTORY so it's difficult for her to
SEARCH The Amazing Puppy Wizard's Archives
on Google and other fine news group search
engines for ALL of you LIES ABUSES and DISMAL
FAILURES blaming and MURDERING innocent dogs
to satisfy your fragile defective ego, weak
fearful mind, and compensate for your collossal
inferiority complexes <{); ~ ) >
I'd never correct an untrained dog
But you WOULD "CORRECT" a TRAINED dog, a dog
YOU TRAINED to MAKE MISTAKES by jerking choking
bribing beating crating intmidating and avoiding
behavior of the cunning domestic puppy dog you
AIN'T GOT THE INTELLECT to HOWEtwit.
that gave a wrong response
If your "TRAINING" WORKED, you WOUDLN'T NEED
to "CORRECT" the DOG YOU TRAINED TO PERFECTION
using bribery pain fear force intimidation avoidance
and MURDER those who do not VALUE your KINDNESS
and MISTAKE IT FOR WEAKNESS.
because I'd never ask a dog for a behavior
he hadn't demonstrated he knew
THEN HOWE DO YOU TRAIN A NEW BEHAVIOR?
But I keep correcting you for erroneous statements
Well then, let's TALK abHOWET those ERRONEHOWES statements?

Seems the ONLY "ERRONEHOWES STATEMENTS" are YOUR INTENTIONAL
LIES fabricated to DEFEND YOUR ALLEGED RIGHT TO CHOKE SHOCK
BEAT CRATE BRIBE INTIMDIATE and MURDER dogs that SCARE YOU
when they TIRE of accepting your UNCONDITIONAL LOVE through
your SHOCK and PRONGED SPIKED PINCH CHOKE COLLARS, AVERSIVE
SPRAYS, CRATING and BRIBERY.
when you clearly don't know anything about training.
Seems Lucy CURED ALL her dog's behavior problems
NEARLY INSTANTLY by simply doin EXXXACTLY OPPOSITE
of HOWE you abuse dogs and lie abHOWET it, lying
"I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn <{); ~ ) >
My error.
Seems ALL The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog
Training Method Manual Students ALL OVER The WHOLE
WILD WORLD REPORT THE SAME SAME as Lucy done... and
THEY GOT THE SAME SAME COMPLAINTS from DOG LOVERS
who PREFER to HURT INTIMDIATE and MURDER dogs on
accHOWENT of THAT IS YOUR BREAD AN BUTTER, lying
"I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.
Frankly, I don't have the time or interest in teaching
you what you need to know to talk about training.
Well, just START TALKIN and The Amazing Puppy
Wizard will TRAINSLATE anything Lucy doesn't
have the EXXXPERIENCE READING YOUR OWN POSTED
CASE HISTORY to know WHAT to LOOK FOR to IDENTIFY
EXXXPOSE and DISCREDIT you as a lying dog abusing
punk thug coward MENTAL CASE.
And you can't get what you need to know from talking, anyway.
RIGHT. She'll GET IT from READING YOUR OWN POSTED CASE
HISTORY JUST LIKE HOWE The Amazing Puppy Wizard SEZ.
Step away from the keyboard and work hard with a few dogs.
BWEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHAHAA!!!

You'd LIKE that.
would rather use that choke chain of yours on me.
And what choke chain would that be?
The WON you REACHED FOR immediately when that
fear aggressive dog comes by to get jerked
and choked someMOORE.
None of my dogs has ever had a choke chain on.
Well, that's a lie, but The Amazing Puppy Wizard
AIN'T FIXIN to QUOTE YOUR OWN POSTED CASE HISTORY
on accHOWNT of HE DONE THAT ALREADY a few THOWESAND
TIMES. You're a LIAR and a MENTAL CASE.
It's been 7 years since I've had a training collar of
any kind on any of my dogs and I don't even use a leash
with my new pup, other than a tracking line.
BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!

From: ***@yahoo.com (Lynn K.)
Date: 23 May 2003 23:43:58 -0700
Subject: Re: Prong Collars, Choke Collars, E-Collars

I prefer a prong for my own dog, and put one on him every 12 to 18
months when he is learning a specific new behavior and I need to be
able to give him a correction to signal that he is about to make a
wrong choice. But my preference for a prong over a choke chain or
electronic collar to give that signal is based on my own handling and
my dog's responses. It is impossible to make generalizations about
what works best for another dog/handler.

Lynn K.

----------------
The Socratic Method is a good, old trustworthy
way to deliver the truth. Why do you fear it?
The Amazing Puppy Wizard RELIES on HIS hybrid
koehler / SocraTEASE FUNctional ANAL-ytic
CONstructive approach, whereby HE allHOWES HIS
opponets' to CONstruct a FUNtional scafflold
in cyberspace and ANAL-yzes their words and w
hen the time is right, drops the floor HOWET
from under them by QUOTING them and hoists
them by their own petards for the Whole Wild
World to mock and ridicule.

It works like MAGICK.

LIKE RIGHT NHOWE, for EXXXAMPLE.

BWEEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHHAAA!!!
Why would you think I fear the Socratic Method?
On accHOWENT of it'll PROVE you're a lyin mental case.
But surely you don't think you are using the Socratic
Method in starting with a false premise and posing
irrelevant questions to defend that indefensible position?
Well THAT'S HOWE COME The Amazing Puppy Wizard ONLY POSTS
TO PUBICLY ARCHIVED NEWS GROUPS, so we GOT YOUR OWN POSTED
CASE HISTORIES TO QUOTE... a la SocraTEASE, lying "I LOVE
KOEHLER" lynn.

Just start anywhere talkin trainin and WE GOT YOU BAGGED
based on your own PRYOR LIES and MENTAL ILLNESS.
Could it be that you really have no interest in learning
how dogs learn and really only care about defending that
position against all argument?
Perhaps lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn would PREFER
to LOOK UP HER OWN POSTED CASE HISTORY of HURTING
INTIMDIATING and MURDERING innocent DEAD DOGS pryor
to DISS-CUSSIN dog trainin with The Amazing Puppy
Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual Students?
Then please explain why it is dangerous. I've been
asking this question from my first posts here, and
all I got was "the shake can is bad for sound-sensitive
dogs."
So called S-HOWEND SENSITIVE dogs are VICTIMS OF ABUSE
otheWIZE they'd FEAR NUTHIN, just like Lucy's dogs.
Let me be very clear. I've seen a dozen or more
bad bites on humans from dogs in drive
Ooosp! We talked abHOWET "DRIVES" with LeeCharlesKelley.
You bums pulled the same CRAP with him, and IGNORED your
own punk thug cowar pal elizabeth naime when SHE REPORTED
LeeCharlesKelley's METHOD WORKED for her "friend".
startled by what was intended as sound distractions.
Do we have YOUR WORD on THAT?

BWEEEEEEEEEEAAAHHAHAHHAHAA!!!!
I've seen countless attacks on both humans and other dogs from
redirected aggression caused by sound or movement. I currently am
working with 3 dominant aggressive dogs who were made much more
aggressive by "difficult dog" classes that were based on classical
conditioning to desensatize reactive dogs to the presence of other
dogs.
Oh goody. LeeCharlesKelley EXXXPLAINED HOWE COME "classical
conditioning" DON'T WORK. THAT'S HOWE COME YOU GOTTA HURT
INTIMDIATE and MURDER dogs, lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.
In this kind of class the dog is given continuous
praise and rewards no matter what the behavior is
That so? Seems you couldn't even CURE fear aggression
IN PERSON with dr. ian dunbar:

HERE'S lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn talkin abHOWET her
I spent this evening at a small group session on
dog-human aggression hosted by Open Paw. Ian
Dunbar was the speaker
That's DOCTOR ian dunbar, dog behavior fraudS.
and was very clear that he uses P.
You mean P as in PUNISHMENT or P as in PRAISE?
Or P as in POO POO?

We're gonna quit using CONfHOWENDING scrabble
terms and RELY on INTELLIGENCE and HONESTY,
things you've YET to learn abHOWET cause you'll
do and say ANY THING to defend your alleged right
to hurt and murder dogs as you PREFER.
The distinction he made, and I think it's at the
heart of the issue, is that he only uses what he
calls "instructive punishment".
IOW MOORE DHOWEble talk. lying "I LOVE KOEHELR"
lynn REPORTED his "METHOD" DIDN'T WORK for her
and her PALS who were at that "grHOWEL class":

Lynn K.:
In a talk on dog-dog aggression on 5/27.
Given his propensity for repeating himself
verbatim, I'll bet he's also written it somewhere :-)

My biggest take-home from that evening actually
came from a brief conversation with Tricia999 &
some co-workers afterwards.

They confirmed my experience that "growl classes"
don't have a lasting impact on the reactivity of dog
aggressive dogs.

Our common experience was that the desensitization
only lasted for the session and didn't carry forward.
As an aside, you might want to get a copy of the
little training manual they are using for shelter
volunteers at www.openpaw.org

The stuff on teaching people how to get into the
kennel and get an excited dog out for a walk is
excellent. Lynn K.

So you see DOG LOVERS, YOUR METHODS DON'T WORK
and YOUR EXXXPERTS ARE FRAUDS LIARS DOG ABUSERS
COWARDS and ACTIVE LONG TERM INCURABLE MENTAL
CASES and IT'S IN BLACK AND WHITE and html.

But that's not the BEST part of havin you settin
right here on The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual Forums,
DOG LOVERS. The BEST part is bein able to QUOTE
your own words of your SUCCESSES HURTING INTIMIDATING
and MURDERING your own DEAD and DEATHLY ILL dogs.
(often with the dogs separated behind opague barriers).
Ever heard of BARRIER FRUSTRATION SYNDROME?
That's appropriate
You mean, AVOIDANCE?
with a dog whose behavior is based on fear of the other dog.
ALL AGGRESSION IS FEAR. ALL FEAR IS CAUSED BY MISHANDLING.
The 3 current clients have dogs that were thrilled to
be around other dogs and the praise not only reinforced
the behavior - it moved it from reactivity to direct
action.
BWEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHHAHHAHAAA!!!

PERHAPS THAT'S ON ACCHOWENT OF THEY DON'T KNOW HOWE
TO USE PRISE, DON'T UNDERSTAND UNCONDITIONAL LOVE
TRUST AND RESPECT, AND FAIL TO CONSISTENTLY NOT
PUNISH INTIMIDATE BRBE AND AVOID BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS?
One of the dogs killed another dog. I hope you don't
have to ask again why it is dangerous. Bad bites and
dead dogs can be the result.
Well, that's on accHOWETN of MISHANDLING, not PRAISE.
OK, what do you suggest to Tara (Tee) to do about her dog Joe Joe
I don't know the dog
Well, you got his POSTED CASE HISTORY.
and wouldn't presume to tell her what to do
about a dog I haven't seen.
ANOTHER EXXXCELLENT POINT! IF ALL AGGRESSION IS
FEAR, AND ALL FEAR IS CAUSED BY MISHANDLING,
WHAT'S TO SEE?

All you gotta do is teach apupriate HANDLING
and the dog WON'T BE FEAR AGGRESSIVE <{); ~ ) >

JUST LIKE HOWE The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual Students
ALL OVER The WHOWEL WILD WORLD REPORT RIGHT HERE,
JUST LIKE HOWE Lucy done.

YOU CALL THEM LIARS and their posts FORGERIES

REMEMBER?
I could tell her about similar cases,
EXXXCELLENT! GO FOR IT --------> <------- put it there <---.
if I had seen similar cases and dealt with them successfully.
Oh, but YOU HAVEN'T, on accHOWENT of "DOMINANCE PISSIN"
like professor melanie GOT with her FEAR AGGRESSIVE dog
Skeeter, IS CAUSED BY FEAR, not DOMINANCE.
Ask youself why I would not give her advice,
On accHOWENT of other than HURT the dog you GOT NONE.
though I've trained literally thousands of dogs,
No, you've ABUSED THOWESANDS of dogs FOR MONEY.
yet you felt you had the experience to advise her.
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHAHA!!!

YEAH, ain't that GRAND???
Could it be overconfidence on your part?
You mean, based on HER OWN 100% CONSSISTENTLY NEARLY
INSTANT SUCCESS as REPORTED BY DOZEN of 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual Students ALL OVER The WHOWEL WILD WORLD?
That you may not comprehend the range and scope
of behavior problems and modification techniques?
Seems that what with ALL The Amazing Puppy Wizard's
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANT SUCCESS STORIES,
you'd be HOWETA BUSINESS if EVERY WON READ and
STUDIED their own FREE COPY of The Amazing Puppy
Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method
Manual... and THAT'D be VERY DANGERHOWES for DOG
LOVERS like yourself..., it'd actually make you
HOWET to be a FRAUD A LIAR and DOG ABUSER...

But we don't need to go THAT far to PROVE IT.
Lynn K.
All we gotta do is CITE YOUR OWN POSTED CASE HISTORY.

Adios. You can't post here abHOWETS nodoGgamenedMOORE.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard <{); ~ ) >
Y***@InBox.Com
2005-07-22 21:21:53 UTC
Permalink
HOWEDY Lucy,
Couldn't this serve as a common ground for a
discussion about what human-dog relationship
should be and the various training philosophies
based on that?
No Lucy, THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE to do when you engage
in DISS-CUSSIONS with LIARS DOG ABUSERS and ACTIVE
ACUTE LONG TERM CHRONIC INCURABLE MENTAL CASES like
lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn, lying frosty dahl, Master
Of Deception blankaman, sionnach, professor SCRUFF
SHAKE dermer and his pal dr. mark plonsky of UofWI
and tommy soronsen aka dogman aka jack morrison aka
joey finnochiarrio and many other anonymHOWES screen
names, the ring leaders of HOWER insane dog abusers.
the mistreatment of dogs or how dogs learn?
ALL TEMPERAMENT AND BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS ARE CAUSED BY
MISHANDLING, THEREFORE THEY CAN BE CURED NEARLY INSTANTLY
by simply NOT MISHANDLING the critter nodoGgamenedMOORE,
as Dr. Von points HOWET in his book "Is There A Science
Of Behavior".
Interesting question - I haven't thought of putting it this way,
Look up Dr. Von's and Larry aka TooCool's posts. They're
both scientists who've STUDIED BEHAIVORISM and have learned
from The Amazing Puppy Wizard what they never learned in school.
but OK.
No, it AIN'T O.K. HOWER DOG LOVERS will DO and SAY ANYTHING
to DEFEND their alleged RIGHT to HURT INTIMDIATE BRIBE CRATE
and MURDER innocent critters to satisfy their own fragile
defective ego's, weak fearful minds and compensate for their
INFERIORITY COMPLEXES <{); ~ ) >

You CANNOT have a DISS-CUSSION with PROVEN LIARS and MENTAL
CASES UNLESS you're trying to gather CASE HISTORY MENTAL
HEELTH DATA as The Amazing Puppy Wizard has been doing here
in HIS HUMAN BEHAVIOR RESEARCH LABORATORIES.
Learning can be a painful process when two different thinking
species have to communicate and the language one uses is not
entirely clear to the other.
That's IRRELVENT, Lucy. We've been DONE talkin "DOG BEHAVIOR"
for a couple years NHOWE. DOGS DO NOT HAVE BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS
if DOG LOVERS don't HURT and INTIMDIATE them, as you've SEEN
RIGHT HERE in The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual Student's REPORTS on EVERY BEHAVIOR IN CREATION
from ALL OVER The WHOWEL WILD WORLD <{); ~ ) >
It reminds me of Stanislaw Lem's "Solaris", where
the other thinking entity was not only nonhuman,
but from a different planet: it could screen men's
brains and dig their deepest memories and reincarnate
them, without being aware that the deepest, strongest
memories are often the most painful ones. The interaction
that developed as a result was a pretty interesting one.
INDEED. THAT'S HOWE COME The Amazing Puppy Wizard keeps
QUOTING them "OLD POSTS" which so greatly OFFENDS lying
"I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn and her toadies diddler and Master
Of Deception blankman.

You NOTICED professor SCRUFF SHAKE dermer hasn't entered
these DISS-CUSSIONS on accHOWENT of HIS CAREER DEPENDS on
NOT MEETING SCIENTIFIC CRITTERIA in a DEATH MATCH with The
Amazing Puppy Wizard <{); ~ ) >
You seem to be perpetually confusing the two very
different subjects.
I think that you do underestimate my analytical abilities.
INDEEDY. From your first post The Amazing Puppy Wizard
KNEW you was NOT WON to TANGLE with, givin your INTEREST
in TRUE CRIME, which is where we're going with DOG BEHAVIOR
and TRAINING, Lucy.

Let's talk to lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn abHOWET her
own SUCCESS with her own SELECTIVELY BRED HAND PICKED
and TESTED SAR dog JIVE.

BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAA!!!

ASK HER HOWE HE'S DOIN SHEEP HURTIN IN HIS RETIREMENT
FROM SAR WORK, Lucy. THAT will be VERY ENTERTRAINING,
for SHORE <{); ~ ) >
But it's OK, I'll survive.
NOT if lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn and the rest of
these MENTAL CASES had any say abHOWET it, Lucy.
Perhaps because you have the correlation between
relationship and training completely backwards.
I actually believe that the two are intertwined,
No, they're IDENTICAL, if you understand ALLELOMIMETIC BEHAVIOR.
since the relationships between living things
are dynamic by nature.
PERHAPS THAT'S HOWE COME WON shouldn't oughta be
takin ANTI PSYCHOTIC MEDICATIONS while workin with
other livin critters, eh Lucy?
The relationship is based on the interaction
between dog and man (training)
You mean THIS relationship?:

lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.

- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.
Lynn K.

"Unfortunately, some confrontation is necessary,
just to be able to handle the dogs. For example,
we need to crate train a dog immediately because
they are usually in need of medical care and they
are in foster homes with other dogs.

It's a safety necessity," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.

"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn.
rather than the training being based on the relationship.
IOW, the dog doesn't mind a little PAIN FEAR FORCE and
INTIMDATION in order to learn HOWE to RESPECT his BHOWENDS,
eh?

"Dogs ABHOR a LEADERSHIP VACCUME" accordin to tommy.

BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHHAAAAA!!!
I think that training is integral part of the relationship
that's being continuously built and can't be separated from it.
Of CURSE. THAT'S HOWE COME The Amazing Puppy Wizard SEZ NEVER
hurt bribe intimidate avoid repress or REWARD behaviors.
I believe that in the eyes of the dog there is no
distinction between you-dog's-human and you-dog's-trainer.
INDEEDY. THAT'S where the alphalpha THEORY fails.
DOGS ATTACK THEIR PARENTS AND LEAVE TO FORM THEIR
OWN PACKS when they MATURE.
To put it in human terms,
You CANNOT treat a dog like HOWE a mom dog treats them
on accHOWENT of they LEAVE MOM at nine months or so...
FOR THOSE SAME SAME SAME SAME REASONS.
every parent loves their newborn infant but their
relationship with children they've raised to adulthood
is a much richer and multi-faceted thing.
BWEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!
Let's say that the overwhelming majority of parents love
their babies, which doesn't prevent many of them from doing
horrible things to their kids -
Like HOWE professor SCRUFF SHAKE TEACHES kids to
do to their kids at his university MASTER'S DEGREE
PROGRAM he CAME HERE TO SELL till The Amazing Puppy
Wizard IDENTIFIED EXXXPOSED and DISCREDITED him and
his MASTER'S DEGREE PROGRAM as a BRUTAL SCAM.
mostly out of ignorance and of weakness.
No Lucy, it's FEAR behaivor. ALL AGGRESSION IS FEAR.

ALL FEAR IS CAUSED BY MISHANDLING AS TAUGHT IN UNIVERSITY
MASTER'S DEGREE BEHAVIOR PROGRAMS like professor SCRUFF
SHAKE SELLS HERE ON The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits'
End Dog Training Method Manual Forums <{); ~ ) >
The Mom who shakes her baby when the baby drives her nuts
Or locks IT in a crib and IGNORES HIS CRIES JUST LIKE
HOWE professor SCRUFF SHAKE TEACHES IN HIS UNIVERSITY
MASTER'S DEGREE BEHAVOR program.
with his screams,
Tsk tsk. They should just IGNORE IT till IT LEARNS
HOWE to fall asleep on ITS own... otherWIZE they'll
end up with a NEEDY, DEPENDENT, MALADJUSTED child.
the Dad who beats the kids in order to make
them respect his authority,
NHOWE NHOWE, Lucy, don't OVER REACT. A little SWAT
on the backside IS NOT ABUSE, Lucy. IN FACT, it's
RECOMMENDED WHEN NECESSARY by DOG LOVERS and PARENTS
RIGHT HERE... so don't be so judgemental, just on
accHOWENT of you don't know enough abHOWET DISCIPLINE
and A LITTLE PAIN scares you like HOWE HOWER DOG LOVERS
FEAR THE DENTIST.
the parents who terrorize their school-aged children
in order to make them get good grades at school are
not doing so because they don't love their kids, but
because their training method is lousy.
PERHAPS THAT'S on accHOWENT of the ADVICE they been
gettin from PSYCHOLOGISTS like harold hanson:

Meeting Scientific Critterier In A Death Match
The Puppy Wizard's INSANE WAR

Hello Harold,
12/01

Attached is my dog training manual. I haven't got your book
yet, but I will have it soon. I hope you've got some time
to read my manual and let me know what you think.

I've been having WON heel of a flame war with the "expert"
professional dog trainers, and I intend to sink their ship
with all hands aboard.

You can find me on the usenet dog behavior group rec. pets.
dogs. behavior. Perhaps you'll choose to join in for a few
discussions.

As I said, I've got no idea about your dog training methods
but I will have in due course. I welcome your comments and
corrective criticism of my text. There's lots more coming,
but it's adequate for J. Q. P.'s (including pet professionals)
need's today.

I believe my methods are the fastest, gentlest and most
effective for all dogs and all their BEHAVIORS, utilities
and hobby or show training.

As I'm looking through your site, my hackles rise when I
read: "If you take a class from a Positive Reinforcement
ONLY trainer and your dog doesn't mind at the end, don't
fault your dog or yourself. Get into a "Balanced" training
program that uses both positive and (if the positive doesn't
work), negative consequences."

That's the hallmark of a lying dog abusing PUNK THUG COWARD.

"The ultimate negative consequences are "being put to sleep"
or "getting killed" because the dog runs out in the road.
Saving your dog from these two negative consequences is
humane, even if the dog may experience minor negative
consequences in training."

Sounds like a word for word quote from our pal wm koehler.

That's inappropriate thinking. Justifying negative
interactions to manifest good behavior through
demonstrated self discipline using punishment fear
and paranoia is hypocrisy, and marks you as a fraud
and a liar and an animal abuser.

Please don't misunderstand me, I'm only making an
observation as I read your site. I'm not yet well
read about your approach. But I do take a firm stand
on physically and emotionally non force, non confrontation
methods.
Often their excuse is "I'm doing it for the good of the child,
Like harold the lyin dog abusin punk thug coward...
because nothing else works on a kid like this".
Bad dogs and kids DON'T DESERVE COOKIES, Lucy.
Only sick, selfish losers perpetuate infantile dependency
Like HOWE lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn does by jerking choking
crating intimidating and MURDERING innocent DUMB critters.
instead of allowing growth into a peer.
CUKOO CUKOO CUKOO.
Sure. In Hebrew, the slang term for that is "Castrating Mom" -
designating one who has to be always "in control", at all costs.
Can you give us the terms in Hebrew? Seems tommy tracked
you DHOWEN to somewhere in Isreal, kinda like HOWE he
tracked marilyn to somewhere in UK, JUST IN CASE it was
The Amazing Puppy Wizard FORGING another post...

Oh, bye the bye, PLEASE ask them for JUST WON CITE
where The Amazing Puppy Wizard has EVER been "CAUGHT"
FORGING LYING or PLAGIARIZING ANY THING?

That'll immediately DISCREDIT them and will probably
WEAR HOWET your WELCOME here abHOWETS, but THAT'S O.K.
Lucy, The Amazing Puppy Wizard doesn't write for THEM,
HE writes for HOWER NEW READERS who NEVER POST HERE
abHOWETS on accHOWENT Of ONLY DOG ABUSERS POST HERE as
YOU CAN SEE from their POSTED CASE HISTORIES.
The same thing is true of our relationship with dogs.
I think it's the worst kind of abuse to view them as
beloved dependents
Kinda like a baby, hunh Lucy?
who can never be given responsibility,
"Given responsibility"? THEY'RE DUMB INNOCENT CRITTERS.

What RESPONSIBILITY can they POSSIBLY HAVE, other than
to PROTECT their human family pack as only a dog CAN?
including responsibility for their actions.
Oh, she must mean like EATIN Gorilly Glue or destroyin
and pissin and shittin all over their HOWESES on accHOWENT
of they LOCK THEM IN BOXES and IGNORE THEIR CRIES and
SCHEDULE their breaks and WITHHOLD food water to TEACH
THEM RESPONSIBLITY of their INNATE NORMAL NATURAL REFLEXIVE
INSTINCTIVE HOWEsbreaking.
They are sentient beings who deserve that respect.
lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" means to TEACH FEAR of makin mistakes
of those behaviors she has EXXXPERTLY TRAINED them NOT TO MAKE.
they are sentient beings who deserve respect. I'm not sure
what exactly you mean by "responsibility for their actions",
THIS SUMS IT ALL UP PRETTY GOOD:

lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.

- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.
Lynn K.

"Unfortunately, some confrontation is necessary,
just to be able to handle the dogs. For example,
we need to crate train a dog immediately because
they are usually in need of medical care and they
are in foster homes with other dogs.

It's a safety necessity," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.

"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn.
so I'd like you to elaborate if you can.
DONE!
And maybe you have the horse glasses of the expert who is
blind to the obvious. You are not correcting me, Lynn,
because "correcting" means not only telling one "You are
wrong",
Well THAT'S sumpthin you CANNOT "TEACH" a pre verbal
child or DUMB ANIMAL, isn't that correct, Lucy <{); ~ ) >
but also explaining why s/he is wrong and also showing
how it should be to be "right".
Kinda IMPOSSIBLE to DO given a DUMB CRITTER or
preverbal child AIN'T IT, Lucy. Ask harold hanson.

BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
This is a great example of how your lack of
understanding gets in the way of any meaningful
discourse.
PRECISELY! You CANNOT DO THAT with a DOG or CHILD.
A correction does NOT include explanation or teaching.
Well then, what good IS it?
In HUMAN terms, it does.
Yeah, but we're talkin INNOCNET PRE VERBAL children
and DUMB CRITTERS who ONLY KNOW DEPENDENCE on their
human mommy's and daddys <{); ~ ) >
You were talking about correcting ME, and I am
not a dog (though I sometimes wish I was so good
a creature!).
Well Lucy, seem YOU REACT JUST LIKE WON when PROVOKED.
It is simply a signal that the current behavior is incorrect
Dogs and preverbal children GOT NO IDEA what that means
OTHER THAN IT SCARES THEM TO DEATH and SOME of them GO
INSANE from being CORRECTED <{): ~ ( >.

JUST LIKE HOWE HOWER DOG LOVERS HAVE GONE INSANE
from The Amazing Puppy Wizard PUNISHING and
HUMILIATING and EMBARRASSING THEM by QUOTING THEIR
OWN WRITTEN WORDS, eh Lucy???

BWEEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAAAA!!!

What you're SEEIN here is an EXXXTINCTION BURST.

You'll notic even the KIBOLOGISTS (paula and terry)
come forward to CONfHOWEND these discussions with
their IDIOCY.
and that another behavior, which is already known, is in order.
IF HOWER EXXXPERT PROFESSIONAL TRAINER TRAINED the
dog IT WOULDN'T MAKE MISTAKES. WOULD IT <{); ~ ) >

ESPECIALLY KNOWING IT'S GONNA GET HURT by MOMMY.
And that's where I continually make the mistake
with you - in assuming that you know better.
Naaah. lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn's MISTAKE was
POSTING to The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog
Training Method Manual Forum Students, like yourself.
Sorry to disappoint you.
Not to worry Lucy, you WON'T "disappoint" lying "I
LOVE KOEHELR" lynn, she KNOWS what's comin... this
is a PSYCHOTIC REACTION. She's had it pryor and will
PROBABLY continue this EXXXTINCTION BURST till she
collapses from STRESS INDUCED AUTO-IMMUNE DIS-EASE
aka The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME <{); ~ ) >

Yeah, it WORKS THE SAME SAME, for people too.
Perhaps the best would be to consider me as totally
ignorant and start explaining in simple terms?
Evidently she already has, on accHOWENT of she
ain't talkin DOG trainin, she's talkin philosophy.
That would save a lot of time.
NO PROBLEMO, Lucy. The Amazing Puppy Wizard got
forty sumpthin years working on this COLD CASE file.
I'd never correct an untrained dog
lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn means PUNISH.
that gave a wrong response
Seems the TRAINING FAILED, not the DOG.

Ask HOWE COME a TRAINED DOG gives a "WRONG RESPONSE"?
because I'd never ask a dog for a behavior
he hadn't demonstrated he knew.
Well THAT EXXXPLAINS HOWE COME it takes MONTHS
and YEARS to train a dog to do SIMPLE BEHAVIORS,
like SAR work FOR EXXXAMPLE <{) ; ~ ) >
But I keep correcting you
JUST LIKE HOWE tara o. aka tee KEEPS CORRECTING Joe Joe.

IT ONLY MADE HIM WORSE.
for erroneous statements
CITES PLEASE? Lucy AIN'T MADE NO "erroneHOWES" statements.
when you clearly don't know anything about training.
Well, nuthin EXXXCEPT that which would heelp RETRAIN her
own SAR dog who REFUSES TO WORK a SAR site OR a sheep trial.

BWEEEEEEEEAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

Ask her abHOWET her sheep hurtin TITLES?

BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!

SEEMS lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn and professora melanie
and Master Of Deception blankman ALL GOT THE SAME PROBLEMS
for their "sheep hurtin" dogs, e.g., THEY CAN'T STOP THEM
FROM ATTACKING THE SHEEP unless they got them ON LEASH or
ON THEIR SHOCK COLLARS.

BWEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAHAHAHAHAA!!!
My error.
NO PROBLEMO! The Amazing Puppy Wizard LIVES for such "errors".
Frankly, I don't have the time or interest in teaching
you what you need to know to talk about training.
NO PROBLEMO. We can start with basic SAR trainin.
And you can't get what you need to know from talking, anyway.
RIGHT. You'd have to look up POSTED CASE HISTORY DATA.
Step away from the keyboard and work hard
Dog trainin is EZ if you DON'T DO what HOWER EXXXPERTS DO.
with a few dogs.
Naaah, that AIN'T necessary. lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn
already GOT those REALLY HARD DOGS in her own SAR dog JIVE.
How would I "work hard with a few dogs",
You CAN'T, if you're doin it RIGHT, Lucy. Trainin dogs
is EZ if you're NOT HURTIN and INTIMDIATING and BRIBING
them, they'll NATURALLY WANT TO DO EVERY THING YOU ASK.
if I know nothing about training?
PROBLEMO. TRAININ MEANS you got to CORRECT the dog
and THAT'S HOWE COME they REFUSE to DO what THEY
ALREADY BEEN TRAINED TO KNOW HOWE to DO.

LIKE SAR WORK. BWEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAAAA!!!
It wouldn't be fair to the dogs, don't you think?
INDEED.
But let's forget about me and my obvious shortcomings
NO, YOU COULD TAKE THE RISK and TRAIN a few dogs
at your local shelter while teaching them HOWE to
TURN DOGS ARHOWEND pryor to entering the P-HOWEND.

But THAT would PUT THEM HOWETA the RESCUE business.

WOULDN'T IT, well, ALL EXXXCEPT for cases of HARDSHIP
an LOST DOGS... on the other hand, dogs DO NOT GET LOST,
they RUN HOWET on their ABUSERS JUST LIKE HOWE KIDS DO.
and focus on the dogs.
WELL, THAT'S THE PROBLEM!

You can't TEACH DOGS HOWE to NOT HURT and INTIMDIATE
innocent critters by TEACHING THEM WITH VIOLENCE, even
for behaviors THEY ALREADY BEEN TRAINED TO DO but WON'T,
like JIVE on a SAR site.

BWEEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!
You can discuss dog training even with someone
who knows nothing about training, can't you?
INDEEDY! As FRAUDreck cogently noted, "If they
KNEW ANYTHIHG abHOWET dog training they wouldn't
call him".

BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHHAHAHHAAA!!!
It's not exactly rocket science, after all.
INDEEDY. HOWEver, it DOES require NOT DOIN what
all the EXXXPERTS KNOW "WORKS".
would rather use that choke chain of yours on me.
And what choke chain would that be?
Ooops! NOT THAT AGAIN???
The one you used on a dog called Roman, for instance.
Tsk tsk tsk, silly GIRL. Roman AIN'T HER DOG, it's
a CUSTOMER'S dog. lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn doesn't
NEED to HURT HER OWN DOGS. Jive just don't LIKE SAR work.
Nice name!
JIVE? That's RAGGTIME, Lucy.
How's the dog, by the way?
BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHHAHAHHAAAA!!!

JIVE is RETIRED from SAR work and temporarily
on sebatical from SHEEP HURTIN. BWEEEAAHAHAHA!!!
None of my dogs has ever had a choke chain on.
THAT'S A LIE. Oh, and Roman, he's STILL IN TRAININ.

Took Valerie 3 days to rehabilitate her fear aggressive
dog figher after spending two years gettin beat up in
a no kill shelter. Took Nevyn 23 days to rehabilitte
his TWO female PBX's from dog fighting. Took Professora
Daniels just abHOWET WON WEEK to CURE her FEAR AGGRESSIVE
dog Sunhine despite having been workin with dra. mcconnell
and four professional trainers recommended by the university.

ALL FOR FREE, and NEARLY INSTANTLY, to boot.
It's been 7 years since I've had a training
collar of any kind on any of my dogs
Well, that's a LIE, as CITED in The Amazing Puppy
Wizard's reply to lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn in
this thread, QUOTED from her discussion abHOWET
her "COME TO JESUS MEETINS" for recalcitrant dogs.
and I don't even use a leash with my new pup,
other than a tracking line.
Oh? Maybe she's gonna TRAIN her NEW PUPPY to
TRACK JUST LIKE HOWE she done her own SELECTIVELY
BRED HAND PICKED and TESTED SAR dog JIVE?

BWEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAHAA!!!

ASK HER HOWE MANY SEARCHES HE DONE PRYOR TO RETIREMENT.

BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHHAHAHHAAA!!!

The answer is NONE, he NEVER QUALIFIED for SAR work
DESPITE HIS HIGH SCORES in the "obedience ring".

BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!
How do you train your own dogs, Lynn?
You mean, like her SAR dog JIVE?

BWEEEEEEEEAHAHAHAHHAA!!!
What method have you used in housebreaking
your new puppy, for instance?
SHE LOCKS IT IN A BOX AND SCHEDULES IT.
Do you have cats?
Oh, INDEEDY!
If you do, how do you train your dogs to get
along with the cats?
Ooops!:

From: Lynn Kosmakos (***@home.com)

Subject: Re: They're called "privates" for
a reason, yaknow
Date: 1999/10/06

Could very well be. Java won't let me have kittens around
the house. If I remember correctly, bunnies are just like
kittens - mysteries at birth.

Lynn K.

------------------------------
How do your dogs react to dogs they meet in the street?
Hey Lucy, DON'T BE CRUEL to HOWER MENTALLY ILL.
The Socratic Method is a good, old trustworthy way to
deliver the truth. Why do you fear it?
Why would you think I fear the Socratic Method?
PERHAPS them LIES betray her, Lucy?
Socrates used to put naive questions that helped
"the truth to be born".
Ooops! THAT would necessarily cause a PSYCHOTIC REACTION...
kinda like HOWE you've been SEEIN HERE in this thread...
He said that he saw himself as "a midwife" in this process.
Well then, compared to SocraTEASE, The Amazing Puppy
Wizard is a late term ABORTIONIST. BWEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAA!!!

NO PROBLEMO.

THIS WON'T HURT MUCH. TRUST The Amazing Puppy Wizard <{); ~ ) >
In your previous reply, you said that this would
be "very, very wrong".
The TRUTH SCARES DOG ABUSING MENTAL CASES here abHOWETS.
It's PART of the DIS-EASE... or shall we say SYNDROME.
But surely you don't think you are using the Socratic
Method in starting with a false premise and posing
irrelevant questions to defend that indefensible position?
Yeah. Let's see HOWER MENTAL CASE DISPROVE POSTED CASE HISTORY DATA.
The beauty of the Socratic Method is that, even if the
questions are "irrelevant" (or not immediately obvious)
to the dialogue partner, the answers can still lead to
the truth.
IN FACT, SocraTEASE almost NEVER put forth a TRUISM
for uncovering FACTS, he lead his students to DISCOVER
THE TRUTHS FOR THEMSELVES by EXXXAMINING DATA and THINKIN
through their MISTAKES, kinda JUST LIKE HOWE The Amazing
Puppy Wizard trains HIS dogs and IDENTIFIES EXXXPOSES and
DISCREDITS HOWE DOG ABUSING MENTAL CASES.

THEN HE QUOTES THEIR OWN POSTED CASE HISTORIES.
Really, do you feel that my questions about your training
philosophy are quite so irrelevant, after all?
Yeah. THAT'S HOWE COME professor SCRUFF SHAKE ain't talkin.
I'm genuinely curious and grateful if you take the time to reply.
Well that AIN'T GONNA LAST LONG, Lucy.
Could it be that you really have no interest in learning
how dogs learn and really only care about defending that
position against all argument?
BWEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHHAHAAA!!! Let's use JIVE as an EXXXAMPLE.
On the contrary, I'm VERY interested in the learning process.
EXXXCELLENT. Let's talk abHOWET Jessica Lundren or
that Boy Scout lost in UT or Elizabeth Smart, ALL
EZ SEARCHES for even an UN TRAINED DOG.
Having taught myself human students, I can relate to
my own experience and compare what does and does not
work, in both cases.
Oh? You're a teacher, Lucy?
Then please explain why it is dangerous. I've been
asking this question from my first posts here, and
all I got was "the shake can is bad for sound-sensitive
dogs."
Well Lucy, ONLY dogs that are MISHANDLED and
ABUSED are S-HOWEND SENSITIVE or FEAR AGGRESSIVE.
Let me be very clear. I've seen a dozen or more bad
bites on humans from dogs in drive startled by what
was intended as sound distractions.
That's on accHOWENT of they don't use The Amazing
Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method
Manual and they CAN'T STOP HURTING their dogs.
Were those sound distractions accompanied by
instant and prolonged praise?
Of curse not. They was using S-HOWEND AVERSION, not distraction
and prolonged non physical praise. IN FACT, just the leashes
they're restraining their dogs with to PREVENT FIGHTING causes
the AGGRESSION which WILL NO STOP with an aversive S-HOWEND
or even an apupriately applied distraction and praise, due to
positive thigmotaxis, or the OPPOSITION REFLEX <{); ~ ) >

But let's not get too technical, seein as you're new
to dog trainin and don't know all the LANGUAGES and
DANCE RYTHIMS.

BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!

CARE TO CONGA, lUCY? lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn equates
her obedience drills to DANCIN... care to dance?
That's an essential part of the method, it is significant
and I wouldn't expect sound distraction to work WITHOUT it.
What's MOORE important is the leash handling. You CANNOT
TRAIN a dog using a choke or other fear force or intimidation
device on accHOWENT of the dog ONLY LEARNS TO FEAR the handler
and any "training" will REVERT to WORSE than HOWE it WAS pryor
to further abusing the critters.
I've seen countless attacks on both humans and other
dogs from redirected aggression caused by sound or movement.
Well Lucy, it's abHOWET time for The Amazing Puppy
Wizard to end this discussion on accHOWENT of there
AIN'T NO POINT in talkin business with a dog abusin
mentally ill pathological liar, as you've proven
through your SOCRATIC METHODS.
That makes sense,
INDEEDy. The Amazing Puppy Wizard AIN'T NO CHUMP, Lucy.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard COULDA come in here and
BEEN NICE to HOWER DOG LOVERS and MAYBE woulda got
a few of these mental cases rehabilitated... HOWEver,
THAT would MEAN the rest of these MENTAL CASES would
still be runnin arHOWEND loose, hurtin intimidating
and murderin dogs and The Amazing Puppy Wizard would
be just another dog trainer with a couple good ideas.

HOWER EXXXPERTS would of COMPROMISED the METHOD had
they "SUPPORTED" it, so there NEVER WAS any INTENT
to "teach" these methods to HOWER DOG LOVERS on
accHOWENT of their ENDORSEMENT WOULD MEAN DEATH.

THAT'S HOWE COME HE came here to IDENTIFY EXXXPOSE
and DISCREDIT these mentally ill lying dog abusing
punk thug cowards startin off with professor SCRUFF
SHAKE and the EXXXPERTS who NO LONGER POST HERE.
since the aggressive dog probably is in a highly excited state,
ALL AGGRESSION IS FEAR.

ALL FEAR IS CAUSED BY MISHANLDING.
ready to snap at the tiniest sign of danger.
INDEED. REMOVE THE DANGER i.e. the viciHOWES alpha
"TRAINER" and the dog AIN'T GOT NO DANGER to FEAR.
The way I understand Jerry's method, it's exactly
why you need to praise
IN ADVANCE.
in order to dissipate this tension -
But HOWER ALPHALPHA "trainers" CANNOT PRAISE
a dog if IT is "MAKIN A MISTAKE."
but I wish that Jerry would comment on this,
Well, don't look to Jerry, look to Mary Cover Jones,
Sam Corson, Pavlov, even LeeCharlesKelley in his fine
book "NO BAD DOGS, ONLY BAD TRAINERS."
since my interpretation is just that: my interpretation.
You're DOIN FINE, Lucy. GOOD GIRL!

BUT YOU DON'T GET A COOKIE, Lucy, THAT would
make a dog trainin whore HOWETA YOU. You're
JUST A GOOD GIRL!
When Clyde was ill and I had to put an ointment on his
face he was scared and was growling at me. Telling him
"It's me, Clyde; if you want to bite me, go ahead and
bite me, but you have to let me put this on your face"
did the trick for me.
Yeah. THAT WOULD OF WORKED for kwbrown's DEAD DOG Teena,
but she COULDN'T STOP HURTING IT according to tommy and
janet's ADVICE... so she MURDERED IT.
I currently am working with 3 dominant aggressive dogs
who were made much more aggressive by "difficult dog"
classes that were based on classical conditioning to
desensatize reactive dogs
Oh? THAT'S the PROBLEM. As LeeCharlesKelley was SAYIN
abHOWET "cc" and "oc", IT'S ALL BULLSHIT. IT DON'T WORK,
or we WOULDN'T BE MURDERIN and CONSTANTLY TRAINING BAD
DOGS, would we, Lucy.
to the presence of other dogs.
IOW, they PUNISH AVOID and REWARD behaviors.

THAT MAKES WHORES HOWETA THEIR DOGS, to boot.
In this kind of class the dog is given continuous
praise and rewards no matter what the behavior is
Well then, seems THAT would VIOLATE CONSISTENCY.

You CANNOT CORRECT BAD BEHAVIORS and EXXXPECT
PRAISE to WORK when you CONfHOWEND them by HURTING
them for COMMANDS THEY ALREADY KNOW, but STILL WON'T
DO, like SEARCHIN an SAR site like JIVE DON'T DO.
(often with the dogs separated behind opague barriers).
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!

Ever heard of BARRIER FRUSTRATION SYNDROME?
That's appropriate with a dog whose behavior
is based on fear of the other dog.
BWEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHAHAAA!!!

YOU CANNOT "REWARD" a behavior the dog AIN'T THINKIN OF DOIN.
By the time the do IS DOIN a behavior IT'S TOO LATE to REWARD
IT on accHOWENT of IT is THINKIN of ITS NEXT BEHAVIOR.
Jerry says that offering rewards to an aggressive dog
makes the dog even more aggressive; what do you think
of that?
BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHHAAA!!!
Could it be that the TREATS, not the PRAISE,
were the cause of the failure?
INDEED. HOWEver, most likely it was the CHOKE
COLLAR and FEAR and FORCE that SHUT OFF the
dog to HEARING the PRAISE due to positive
thigmotaxis, a word lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn NEVER HEARD OF pryor to The Amazing Puppy
Wizard IDENTIFYING EXXXPOSING and DISCREDITING
her and the rest of these MENTAL CASES.
The 3 current clients have dogs that were thrilled
to be around other dogs and the praise not only
reinforced the behavior - it moved it from reactivity
to direct action. One of the dogs killed another dog.
BWEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHAHHAAAA!!!

PERHAPS the PRAISE WON'T WORK if you're CHOKIN HIM?
Was the praise accompanied by treats when that happened?
BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!

NO. It was NEVER USED on accHOWENT of EXXXPERT
TRAINERS DO NOT PRAISE BAD BEHAVIORS, Lucy.

THAT'S HOWE COME you got to KNOW your SUBJECT, Lucy.

You're talkin to a COMPULSIVE PATHOLOGICAL LIAR.
I hope you don't have to ask again why it is dangerous.
Ask Nevyn... Ask Valerie. Ask Professora Daniel.
Ask Ron Flanagan aka Leprechaun. Ask Zach Pellers.

Ask Robert Crim. Ask Misty. THEY GOT DEAD DOGS for
all the ADVICE they got from HOWER DOG LOVERS.

THEIR OWN POSTED CASE HISTORIES TELLS IT ALL, Lucy.
Bad bites and dead dogs can be the result.
Ooooh, SCARY, AIN'T IT. FEAR causes HOWER DOG LOVERS
to HURT INTIMDIATE and MURDER INNOCENT CRITTERS, Lucy.
Please bear with me, I'm afraid that I have to insist,
since it's not clear to me from what you have said so
far that they have proceeded as in Jerry's method.
THEY CANNOT USE The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method if they're using pronged spiked pinch and choke or
shock collars bribes and BARRIERS.

Dog / dog aggression TAKES MINUTES to EXXXTINGUISH
USING ABSOLUTELY NON PHYSICAL TRAINING. THAT MEANS
NO FEAR FORCE BRIBERY INTIMIDATION or BARRIERS.
OK, what do you suggest to Tara (Tee) to do about
her dog Joe Joe
BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAHAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!
I don't know the dog and wouldn't presume to
tell her what to do about a dog I haven't seen.
The dog is AFRAID. THAT'S ALL we GOT TO KNOW.
I could tell her about similar cases, if I had
seen similar cases and dealt with them successfully.
BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!

THAT'S ABSURED. The Amazing Puppy Wizard ALMOST NEVER
SEES those dogs ALL OVER The WHOWEL WILD WORLD HE trains
NEARLY INSTANTLY by simply DOIN EVERY THING OPPOSITED of
HOWE HOWER EXXXPERTS do it.

Ask professor SCRUFF SHAKE if you REALLY want to
learn abHOWET behavior from a MASTERS DEGREE HOLDER,
a UNIVERSITY PROFESSOR OF ANAL-ytic behaviorISM.

BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHAA!!!
Does this mean that her case is something like
you have never met before?
BWEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!

She has NO ABILITY to EXXXTINGUISH ANY FEAR BEHAVIOR
using her TOOLS and KOEHLER METHODS..
Ask youself why I would not give her advice
Oh, THAT'S EZ! SHE AIN'T GOT NONE!
though I've trained literally thousands of dogs,
lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn has MURDERED MOORE DOGS
that she's TRAINED than most of us have owned.
yet you felt you had the experience to advise her.
INDEEDY. And NEARLY INSTANTLY and FOR FREE, to boot.

Ask ANY professional trainer HOWE COME they'd NOT
WANT their STUDENTS to LEARN HOWE to TRAIN and
REHABILITATE ALL temperament and behavior problems
NEARLY INSTNTLY and FOR FREE, and before you FINISH
ASKIN, YOU'LL KNOW THE ANSWER, Lucy.
Could it be overconfidence on your part?
BWEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHHAHHAAA!!!
Could be. Could be - how to put it? Over-cautiousness
on your part?
CERTAINLY lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn wouldn't want
to MISLEAD someWON to BE NICE to a DOMINANT DOG, Lucy.
Like not being afterwards reproached "I did what you
told me, and look what happened!"?
Well, you mean kinda like HOWE daver reported today?

ONLY DOG ABUSERS POST HERE abHOWETS, Lucy. daver is
a CLASSIC EXXXAMPLE of a dog abusing punk thug coward
blowin smoke up HOWER arses. HE NEVER FOLLOWED The
Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUl FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training METHODS, he
ONLY went to the CORRECTION stage, whereby he's TRYIN
to PUNISH HIS DOG, not TRAIN HIM to naturally WANT to
do EVERY THING he's asked.

He's gonna have to LEARN the HARD WAY, Lucy.
That you may not comprehend the range and
scope of behavior problems and modification
techniques?
BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAHAAA!!! Hey Lucy? Better look
behind you, seems you're blowin smoke HOWET your arse.

BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHHAHAHHHAAA!!!
Let me make this as clear as possible: I wouldn't have
advised her to do so, if it had been just my unique
experience with my dogs. But, unlike you, I don't dismiss
the other cases in which Jerry's method
You mean HIS DANGERHOWES PLAGIARIZED methods, Lucy?
worked,
They WORK like freakin MAGICK, only BETTER.
because I do not have your bias.
Naah, lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn AIN'T BIASED.

SHE'S FIGHTING FOR HER ENTIRE CAREER.
The explanation that Jerry gives seems logical
and plausible, to me.
And the DOZENS of 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL POSTED CASE HISTORIES VERIFIES THAT.

HOWER DOG LOVERS CALL THEM LIARS AND FORGERIES.
The situation that Tara described seemed pretty desperate.
tara o. aka tee IS a VERY DESPERATE MENTAL CASE... JUST
LIKE lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn and tommy... professor
SCRUFF SHAKE dermer and his punk thug coward partner
dr. mark plonsky, notwithstanding <{); ~ ) >
All the other advice she got right here didn't work
NEVER DOES, does it, Lucy, JUST JUDGING by the POSTED
CASE HISTORIES in The Amazing Puppy Wizard's Archives
<{); ~ ) >
Jerry believes he's a dog trainer.
Fortunately, I happen to believe he is too.
I took a rescued three year old beagle that
had been kept outside all of its life that didn't
even recognize or respond to its name to
Jerry's home (That ugly cinder block shack???
get real) and in just over one hour of working
with the dog, he was coming on command
(not a quickly as he does now, but still...) and
walking with us on a loose lead.

His "hot/cold" exercise and "come when called"
command and pack exercise WORK!
and in all likelihood he's never even been near a dog.
Well, he's been near mine, and done wonders for him.

You don't have to like him. You don't have
to agree with his methods, but as far as I
am concerned, I've never seen any other
training approach that was as fast and easy.

<<<< Rest of original post deleted >>>>

Ron Flanagan
Orlando, Florida

Dan Moore" <***@worldnet.att.net>
wrote in message news:fS2Lc.114567$OB3.
***@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.

Tracy,

What worked for me, in just one storm,
was to praise the dog after each clap
of thunder, telling him he's a Good Dog!

This is an almost 13 year old Doberman, BTW.

The next time it thundered, he did not even react at
all--you could not tell it was the same dog as before.

There was more thunder just the other day, and same
thing, nada, nothing, zilch, no cowering, whimpering,
trying to hide at all, it was that simple.

I got this idea from Jerry Howe, who might seem
to be a "wild and crazy" character, but his non-
abusive way of handling dogs WORKS.

Wonderfully.

Praise.

It's that simple.

Juanita

"Zack Pellers" <***@GUESSWHERE.cc>
wrote in message
***@towson.edu (Derek) wrote in news:
***@posting.google.com:

Your dog needs to be retrained. Contact Mr. Jerry Howe.

Http://www.DoggyDoRight.com

You can start by downloading the free training manual
available on the site above. I used it on my 4 year old
Fila Brasileiro.

When I first brought him home from rescue, he was
similar to the way you decribed your dog. After using
Mr. Howe's training method, the dog was cured within
72 hours.

-Jack

==============
(and you don't seem to have a problem with other
people who DID give her advice that DIDN'T WORK,
Hmmm, curiHOWES THAT, AIN'T IT?
only with the particular advice that *I* offered).
You mean the ONLY advice that'll WORK. It's been
WON WEEK NHOWE, since tara o. aka tee been SHOCKING
her fear aggressive dog for "DOMINANCE PISSIN".
At this stage, don't you think that giving a chance
to a crazy method that MIGHT save the dog is better
than going on with the same stuff that HASN'T helped
and only made the situation worse?
Nooo! THAT would make The Amazing Puppy Wizard
LOOK like HE knows HOWE to train ALL dogs NEARLY
INSTANTLY withHOWET HURTING them and withHOWET
EVEN SEEING THEM.

HOWE do you EXXXPECT a PROFESSIONAL DOG TRAINER
TO COMPETE with THAT kinda SUCCESS, even if it
WASN'T FREE FREE FREE FREE FREE FREE FREE, Lucy?

BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAHAHAA!!!

THEY CAN'T. THEY'D BE HOWETA BUSINESS, Lucy.
Lucy
Oh, bye the bye, marilyn USED to be PALS with
The Amazing Puppy Wizard till she REFUSED to
call a spade a spade and wouldn't be HONEST
with HOWER DOG LOVERS so HE PUT HER HOWET:

Wed,Oct 24 2001 6:03 am
Subject: Re: Has anyone anything good to say about Jerry

Hello lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn,
I sincerely hope you're not being serious? OK, maybe
not to 'totally train' a dog over the phone or internet,
but there's nothing gonna stop me helping people if I
can, this way.
BIG Difference, as you well know. There's a whole lot
of difference between offering advice or suggestions by
phone, mail, internet, whatever,
Right. That's why I don't like to give tidbits of advice
to people because that's not training, that's putting band
aids on problems.
and purporting to diagnose, treat, or train without
professional evaluation of the animal.
Well, you like to choke dogs on pronged spiked pinch choke
colalrs and shock and beat them with sticks and flank them
and slap them around and pull their tails while muzzled.
That was the whole basis of the censure action against
the big name Dr. who was doing diagnosis-by-fax for a
fee that I'm sure you're aware of.
What's that got to do with training dogs?
We all give advice, and couch it as advice. No problem.
Jerry claims as students people like Charlie Wilkes and
Robert Crim, and claims to have trained their dogs, on
the basis of a couple of advice posts.
No. On the basis of the methodology of my FREE Wits'
End Dog Training Method manual. I trained an 85 y.o.
cripple lady in a wheelchair who couldn't even operate
a clicker to break her seizure service dog of excessive
barking IN WON DAY. My methods work like MAGICK.
If you don't see a problem with that, then, yes, I
have to wonder about your professional ethics and
professionalism, too.
You shock, choke, beat, flank, hang, and kill dogs.

You're finished in this business, lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.
Nope. Not one person he has labeled a thug advertises.
Or has to. Training is a referral business, and we're
all doing quite well, thank you.
Yeah. The Amazing Puppy Wizard has EXXXPOSED your "NETWORKING" scam.

You bums wouldn't discuss the koehler books page by page when I took
them out of the library THREE TIMES so we could discuss YOUR methods.
By doing quite well, do you mean lots of happy people with
happy dogs - or do you mean raking in the loot?
Doing well at whatever their goals are, of course.
You and cindymooreon are more interested in iflicing pain and enjoying
that. You're a pathological liar and dog abuser, and cindy is a sadist.
(Nobody goes into training for money.
It's a 2nd career for most trainers.)
Because they SUCK at it.
It would take density of epic proportions for a
reader not to realize how very few of the people
Jerry calls "thugs" make their livings training dogs.
It's hard to do when you kill the dog like janet did to
that little dog in interested in hearing.
They range from universally acknowleged leaders
in their > fields like Haggerty,
cap'n arthur haggerty Teaches Sound Distraction:

captain arthur haggerty SEZ: "A CHIN CHUCK" Makes
A Resounding Sound Distraction: "When You Chuck
The Dog The Sound Will Travel Up The Mandible To
The Ears And Give A Popping Sound To The Dog."

See my post "accentuate the positive" to discredit that bum.
He had his little girl threaten to sue me for defamation of
her daddy. I told her to GO AHEAD, I can prove every thing
I say about the M.F.'n simpleton.
Maida,
BWWWAHAHAHAHAHA!~~ Look up CHILD MOLESTOR. That's what he
knows from dog behavior. The cretin calls me a convicted
fugitive child molestor after I rejected his offer to
ENDORSE MY METHODS if I'd just lay off you bums "cause
I'm only trying to make a living," he sez.

I told the F'n bum I wouldn't criticize him if he posted
exemplary advice, and his "ENDORSEMENT" would not be welcome,
it'd be the kiss of death for me to be endorsed by you Thugs.

He sent carol levie to his competition so she wouldn't be
obligate to come back here and tell us he could only tell
her to hang her dog. Instead she came back with her dog
snapping at her.
the Dahls,
Here's a couple quotes from your dog abusing lying Thug pals:

"I Would Never Advise Anyone To Slap A Dog I Do Not Believe There
Is A Single Circumstance Ever, Where Slapping A Dog Is Anything
But Destructive" amy "Get A 30"- 40" Stick. CHUCK IT Under ITS
Chin With That Ever Ready Right Hand, pinch it's ear between
the shotshell and a large coin 'till resisting your will fades in
importance," dahl.

"Chin cuff absolutely does not mean slap," professora gingold.

And from terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is
something you twisted out of context, because you
are full of bizarro manure."

"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem Quite Harsh And
Cause You To Cringe. This Is A Normal Reaction The First Few
Times It Happens, But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth, author:
"Courteous Canine."

And here's one from me:

!CAUTION! Dog abusing lying Thugs. Enter at your own peril! You
are responsible for your own loss of credibility and damages to
careers and reputations resultant from being exposed and
discredited. Proceed at your own risk. This is a violence free zone.
Violators will be subject to prolonged emotional, social and
professional punishment and will be pursued to the gates of Heel
and kept within under guard of a Wits' End Trained Dog.
et al, to the many people here like Melanie Chang who
Allows a Thug stranger beat her man shy fear aggressive dog in the face
with a shepherd's crook because he sells sheep molestation lessons.
blackman's doin the same thing.
turned around a difficult dog and is successfully acquiring new
skills.

She's been molesting the dog for a year, the dog is on
psychopharmacuticals, and she's a bit of a screwball... like you.
It doesn't matter a bit whether we're celebrating MudEPoz
earning the 1st AKC versatility title in her breed or Diane
Blackman's elderly dog still out there having fun and competing
successfully at the elite level. They are all doing well and
earning the respect of their peers - and referrals in their
areas of expertise.
Isn't it curious you all beat, choke, and shock your dogs...
Money is not often involved at all,
You're a pathological liar, and some of your Gang Of Thugs are sadists.
and it's another example of your deliberate disagreeableness to
suggest it.

I trained three whippetts from being hyper and bolting off lead in
Rome.
I had a lady GO BACK to the pound and take her dog out after studying
my
FREE Wits' End Dog Training Method manual for the dog she was keeping,
but only cause she got such excellent results so fast with him.
Lynn K.
You got big problems for Jerry. I wouldn't want to be you...

In short, my students don't fail if they read the instructions and ask
questions if they encounter difficulty. My machine CURES behavior
problems in all animals, and they LOVE it. My FREE Wits' End Dog
Training Method manual COSTS BIOSOUND Scientific Elves several sales a
week, because when dog owners call up to ask about my machine, I
usually
convince them to save their hard earned dough and study my FREE Wits'
End Dog Training Method manual so they can learn to handle their dogs
properly.

Here's a correspondence where the lady who wrote me went back to the
shelter and got her dog back and is now thrilled with his behavior.

To BISOSOUND,
4/13/01

Any chance on more rapid shipping? Neighbors have filed
compalints and bark collar not working. Desperate, and I have heard
this product works well. Please advise. Judy

Hello Judy,

The training methods in the free manual available on my site are
fast and effective. If you still have the dog you're planning on
giving up, you might want to reconsider and try the handling and
training techniques I teach. I'll give you additional help teaching
them on the phone if you need it. Jerry.

4/14/01
Thank you for your response to my inquiry. With your assurance that
shipping will be immediate, I have just now placed my online order,
invoice #. Today, I had to get rid of one dog due to barking and
signs of aggression and am hopeful Doggy Do Right will eliminate
the need to get rid of my son's dog. Thank you, again. I am
anxiously awaiting delivery. Thank you so much for your offer.

4/15/01
I returned "Hunter" to the humane society yesterday. BUT, I am
considering getting him back due to your encouragement. They will
keep him for three business days, (Tuesday), and if he is not
adopted, it will be day by day after that. I will call them Monday.
I don't want him destroyed and if the Doggy-Do-Right and the
manual work as well as you say, there may be hope for him.

He is a 16 month old Husky.Shepherd cross and my son is really
down that we had to take hime back. My problems is that our Aussie
cross thinks she is the alpha dog and so does Hunter, so they
sometimes get into it between themselves. I have the rest of the
weekend to ponder a decision. Thanks again. Judy

4/15/01
Hello Judy,

The problem between the two dogs should be easy to address. If
that's your biggest concern, I'm certain you won't have any
difficulty with just a few changes in the way you address their
behaviors. Just ask if you need help with the manual. You'll see
immediate improvements from just doing the preliminary exercises.
Jerry.

4/25/01 4:04:59 PM
I have seen some good progress, and I have been consistent
with "good boy" whenever he takes any notice at all.
Good. Got to praise him before he pays attention. In the same breath
as you might say "no" or sound a can or clap or snap the fingers,
the praise must follow instantly, regardless of his behavior and
continue for five to fifteen seconds or till the behavior resumes.
Call me if you'd like, I can go over the timing, tone, and tempo and
any other problems you might have.
things are definitely looking up.
Thanks again, Judy
Good, I've been thinking of you today. Here's some housebreaking
advice and don't foget the attachement. j;~}

5/01/01
Hi Jerry: When I said the dogs go running, I probably should have
said the halos pop out. They don't act afraid and I try to praise
them whenever I am silently moving the cans so they don't become
afraid.

Tippy is afraid of loud noises anyway, so I try to minimize the
sound. I do back up or walk away when Hunter stares at me and then
he USUALLY comes. Can't thank you enough for your input and
help. Judy

There. One happy family.
l***@claque.net
2005-08-14 15:54:27 UTC
Permalink
Hi again, Jerry :-)
Post by Y***@InBox.Com
Sure. In Hebrew, the slang term for that is "Castrating Mom" -
designating one who has to be always "in control", at all costs.
Can you give us the terms in Hebrew?
Of course. It is "Eema mesareset". "Eema", also spelled "Eemah", "Ima",
or "Yma", is the Hebrew for "Mom" (from "Em" = "Mother"). "Mesareset"
is "the one (female) who castrates", from the verb "lesares" = "to
castrate".

Sorry for the delay - never enough spare time, it seems. :-(

Lucy
T***@Mail.Com
2005-08-16 16:22:02 UTC
Permalink
HOWEDY Lucy,
Post by l***@claque.net
Hi again, Jerry :-)
Post by Y***@InBox.Com
Sure. In Hebrew, the slang term for that is "Castrating
Mom" - designating one who has to be always "in control",
at all costs.
Can you give us the terms in Hebrew?
Of course. It is "Eema mesareset". "Eema", also
spelled "Eemah", "Ima", or "Yma",
Oh? Looks like your SPELLIN is a difficult as
The Amazing Puppy Wizard's SPELLIN, eh Lucy?
Post by l***@claque.net
is the Hebrew for "Mom" (from "Em" = "Mother").
"Mesareset" is "the one (female) who castrates",
from the verb "lesares" = "to castrate".
Do you think THAT'S HOWE COME tommy sorrenson aka
gentleman jack aka joey finnochiarrio aka dogman
is a lying dog aubsing punk thug coward mental case,
or do you think it's on accHOWENT of his daddy was
a drunkend abusing mental case, Lucy?
Post by l***@claque.net
Sorry for the delay -
NO PROBLEMO, Lucy. The Amazing Puppy Wizard
got over forty years workin on this...
Post by l***@claque.net
never enough spare time, it seems. :-(
INDEEDY. PERHAPS THAT'S on accHOWENT of there's
so much to WORK WITH, eh Lucy?
Post by l***@claque.net
Lucy
Like this, for EXXXAMPLE. Here's WON of tommy's
posts which was set to automatically DELETE itself
where he's callin you a DISHONEST DEBATOR. Do you
think THAT'S on accHOWENT Of he's SCARED to TALK
BUSINESS with a LADY or do you think it's just on
accHOWENT of his drunken daddy beat him into bein
a lying dog abusing punk thug coward mental case,
Post by l***@claque.net
WAS post #196
HOWEDY tommy you anonymHOWES lying dog abusing coward,
Post by l***@claque.net
From: Handsome Jack Morrison <handsomejackmorrison
Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 20:43:25 -0400
Subject: Re: For Handsome Jack Morrison: Collars - belated reply
Note: The author of this message requested that it not be archived.
This message will be removed from Groups in 5 days (Jul 28, 8:43 pm).
CuriHOWES THAT, AIN'T IT?
Post by l***@claque.net
[]
Post by Y***@InBox.Com
And maybe you have the horse glasses of the expert who is blind
to the obvious. You are not correcting me, Lynn, because
"correcting" means not only telling one "You are wrong", but also
explaining why s/he is wrong and also showing how it should be to
be "right".
You have been offered the opportunity to be shown that what we do,
You jerk and choke and shock intimdate bribe crate and MURDER dogs,
REMEMBER tommy, you anonymHOWES lying dog abusing punk thug coward?
Post by l***@claque.net
and exactly how we do it,
You do it with your pronged spiked pinch choke
and shock collars, crates, training sticks, and
a slice of cheese cut into 25 even pieces.
Post by l***@claque.net
gets equal or better results several times now,
That so? HOWE abHOWET ALL THEM DEAD DOGS YOU'VE MURDERED
RIGHT HERE, tommy? HOWE abHOWET kwbrown's DEAD DOG Teena
and tara o. aka tee's DEAD DOG Summer and steve walker's
DEAD DOG Sampson and Robert Crims DEAD DOG Fritz?

They was FOLLOWIN YOUR INSTRUCTIONS when they WENT INSANE.
Post by l***@claque.net
yet you're still claiming otherwise -
For EXXXCELLENT REASON, tommy. YOU HURT INTIMDIATE
and MURDER dogs and LIE abHOWET IT, REMEMBER tommy?
Post by l***@claque.net
- the mark of a dishonest debater.
That's curiHOWES, tommy. You're the bum who
won't TALK BUSINESS with Lucy on accHOWENT
of SHE QUOTES from YOUR OWN WORDS, REMEMBER
tommy?
Post by l***@claque.net
Being shown
You mean HOWE to HURT dogs, tommy?
Post by l***@claque.net
is the only way in which a person with such limited
experience and knowledge of dogs, dog training, and
learning theory (accompanied, apparently, by such poor
reading comprehension) is ever going to understand us,
Seems Lucy DOES "UNDERSTAND" you, tommy. THAT'S HOWE
COME you WON'T TALK BUSINESS with Lucy, REMEMBER tommy?
Post by l***@claque.net
provided that you even have a real desire to learn
You mean, learn HOWE TO HURT INTIMIDATE and MURDER
dogs like HOWE you and your punk thug coward pals
PREFER, tommy?
Post by l***@claque.net
and are not here just to waste everyone's time
RIGHT. Lucy's here to IDENTIFY EXXXPOSE and DISCREDIT you,
JUST LIKE HOWE SHE DONE, REAL FINE bye the way, tommy.

REMEMBER NHOWE???
Post by l***@claque.net
(I'm more inclined, each time you make a post here,
to believe the worst about you,
You mean, that you THINK Lucy's a JEW, tommy?
Post by l***@claque.net
because you "debate" in such a dishonest manner.).
That so? CITES PLEASE, tommy? Seems it's YOU who
JERKS CHOKES SHOCKS and MURDERS dogs and LIES
abHOWET it. REMEMBER NHOWE, tommy?
Post by l***@claque.net
Plus, you repeatedly ignore the challenge put forth
to you to go down to your local shelter and test the
success of your ways on a large number of dogs,
The Amazing Puppy Wizard has DONE THAT RIGHT HERE,
tommy, and HIS 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method
Manual Students like Lucy KEEP REPORTING their
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANT SUCCESS.

And you keep CALLIN THE LIARS, remember tommy?

BWEEEEEEEEEAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
Post by l***@claque.net
with a plethora of different behavior problems.
LIKE HOWE The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog
Training Method Manual Students REPORT RIGHT HERE.

You know, the WONS JUST LIKE Lucy whom YOU CALL LIARS.

REMEMBER NHOWE, tommy?
Post by l***@claque.net
And another example of your blatant dishonesty, IMO.
Tsk tsk, tommy. Lucy never called you a LIAR.

SHE DIDN'T HAVE TO tommy, SHE PROVED IT by QUOTING YOU.
Post by l***@claque.net
Post by Y***@InBox.Com
You certainly can't enjoy that and I guarantee nobody
else likes engaging with you on that level.
Oh, don't bother, I can take it (and judging by the number
of replies my posts get, it seems the others can live with
it, too). As long as there's a chance for me of learning
something new, I don't care if you're nice to me or would
rather use that choke chain of yours on me.
It's also dishonest verbiage
CITES PLEASE, tommy?
Post by l***@claque.net
like the above
You mean, that Lucy don't mind talkin to you
even when you're vulgar and insulting, tommy?
Post by l***@claque.net
that makes you reek of agenda.
You mean, NOT HURTING dogs to train them, tommy?
Post by l***@claque.net
You imply above that there is something "bad"
about the use of a choke collar,
Not if it's used for ANY THING OTHER than CHOKIN a dog, tommy.
Post by l***@claque.net
without even knowing the first thing about
a choke collar's proper use.
You mean, to CHOKE and INTIMIDATE dogs with, tommy.
Post by l***@claque.net
Post by Y***@InBox.Com
You wouldn't offer to be a midwife in real life if
you'd never delivered babies, or didn't even know
what type of thing was being delivered, would you?
Oh, but I do know what type of thing is being delivered
in our talks here, Lynn. The Socratic Method is a good,
old trustworthy way to deliver the truth.
INDEED? THAT'S SCARY, AIN'T IT, tommy.
Post by l***@claque.net
Post by Y***@InBox.Com
Why do you fear it?
On accHOWENT of THAT is the NATURE of a NATURAL BORN COWARD.
Post by l***@claque.net
To the best of my knowledge, Socrates never trained a single dog.
Right... he taught PEOPLE HOWE to THINK RATIONALIZE
and SOLVE PROBLEMS JUST LIKE HOWE The Amazing Puppy
Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual teaches
dogs to THINK RATIONALIZE and SOLVE PROBLEMS by NOT
FORCING and INTIMIDATING them, REMEMBER NHOWE, tommy?
Post by l***@claque.net
Read less Socrates and more Skinner.
You mean DESPITE Skinner's clear denunciation
of "negative reinforcement" (1958), tommy?

PERHAPS YOU MISREAD that part, eh tommy?
Post by l***@claque.net
Read less Socrates and more Koehler.
koehler is a MONSTER, A DOG ABUSING COWARD, like yourself, tommy.
Post by l***@claque.net
Post by Y***@InBox.Com
You are doing the same kind of potential harm to people -
By PROVING you're a lying dog absing punk thug coward, tommy?
Post by l***@claque.net
Post by Y***@InBox.Com
propagating a message that is more
dangerous than you understand why,
You mean NOT HURTING INTIMIDATING and MURDERING dogs, tommy?
Post by l***@claque.net
Post by Y***@InBox.Com
Then please explain why it is dangerous.
Ooops!
Post by l***@claque.net
That's what people have been doing here ad nauseam,
You mean, people like DOG MURDERERS like lying "I LOVE
KOEHLER" lynn, tommy? SHE'S A MENTAL CASE!
Post by l***@claque.net
but "you no speaka de eeenglish," apparently.
Seems Lucy's grasp of de eeenglish is pretty good,
ESPECIALLY when it comes to QUOTING YOU HURTING
INTIMIDATING and MURDERING dogs and LYING abHOWET IT.
Post by l***@claque.net
Until you take the time to learn at least the ABCs
of learning theory, behaviorism, operant conditioning,
etc., we might as well be speaking in tongues to you.
INDEEDY! THAT'S HOWE COME WE DON'T DO THAT NO MOORE:


Instrumental / Classical / Operant / Conditioning
CC / OC / IC / -P +P / +R -R / S R / R S
It's ALL The SAME SAME SAME SAME
<{); ~ ) >

George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.

From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <***@mindspring.com>
Subject: The Amazing Jerry's take on psychobabble
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 12:13:44 -0400

You might improve the learning of folk who actually
live with and train dogs to do useful things if you
excluded everyone who uses psychobabble from your lists.

I recommend to all of you who wish to taste the flavor
of sensible animal behaviorists to read THE MISBEHAVIOR
OF ORGANISMS, Breland and Breland.

This married pair of psychologists began the long trail
of highly trained animals who are symbolized by Shamu
eating a mackrel from a girl's hand instead of eating
the much more tasty pretty girl who is exactly the size
of the natural food of killer whales, seals. Yum!

The essay, by the way, is a chapter in B.F. Skinner's
summing up book, CUMULATIVE RECORD. They include a
sentence which more or less says, "unless you understand
the personal history of the particular animal, and the
history of this animal's species and group, the developmental
history of the animal, you cannot effectively train the animal.

Pigs root and hen's scratch, if you try to train hens without
scratching or pigs without scratching or pigeons without pecking,
you aren't going to have much success.

A conditional reflex is one which is learned, the original
primitive reflex occurs no matter what the history of the
animal, and is hard wired. If you train the animal to respond,
say by ringing a bell immediately before turning on a bright
light, then you've taught the animal and made his native reflex
of pupil constriction conditional upon the ringing of a bell.

Thorndyke added some terminology to this kind of training
and insisted that when you train the animal to make gross
motor responses that this learning is "instrumental", the
animal takes action and uses an instrument.

The Russian word translated as "conditional" in all other
contexts was mistranslated by Pavlov's American translator,
Horsley Gannt, as "conditioned" and so American psychology
went haring after phantasmagora.

The major theorists for the development of the language of
operant conditioning are Edward Thorndike, John Watson, and
B. F. Skinner. Their approach to behaviorism played a major
role in the development of American psychology.

They proposed that learning is the result of the application
of consequences; that is, learners begin to connect certain
responses with certain stimuli. This connection causes the
probability of the response to change (i.e., learning occurs.)

Thorndike labeled this type of learning instrumental. Using
consequences, he taught kittens to manipulate a latch (e.g.,
an instrument). Skinner renamed instrumental as "operant"
because in this learning, one is "operating" on, and is
influenced by, the environment. Where classical conditioning
illustrates S-->R learning, operant conditioning is often
viewed as R-->S learning since it is the consequence that
follows the response that influences whether the response
is likely or unlikely to occur again.

It is through operant conditioning that
voluntary responses are learned.

One should note that Russian Psychology did very well
without the operant language, and only pettifogging
university professors ought to worry about what kind
of label we attach to the learning. Pfui!

Even Skinner understood this!

And please note if you saw the original movie, THE
MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE, you saw a Chinese psychologist
who was based on Andrew Salter, CONDITIONED REFLEX
THERAPY.

Alas, Salter didn't have a Ph.D., but he basically rescued
us from the long Freudian nightmare and returned psychotherapy
to a scientific basis. Alas, the 2nd movie didn't even cite
Salter as a source. "...all the highest nervous activity, as
it manifests itself in the conditional reflex, consists of a
continual change of these three fundamental processes --
excitation, inhibition and disinhibition." Ivan P. Pavlov

George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.

What's important is, "does Shamu reliably eat
the fish and not the pretty girl?"

George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.

----------------------
Post by l***@claque.net
You've also avoided answering these simple
Do you understand what operant conditioning is?
IT MEANS HURT THE DOG, tommy.
Post by l***@claque.net
Do you understand how it is used
IT'S USED TO HURT THE DOG, tommy.
Post by l***@claque.net
in the training of dogs(gerbils, pigs,
seals, chimps, humans, etc.)?
It's USED to HURT INTIMIDATE and DENY innocent
critters of food, attention and affection till
AFTER they've OPERATED their little TRICKS for
you, tommy. It's USED TO HURT and INTIMIDATE
innocent critters like HOWE YOU PREFER, tommy.
Post by l***@claque.net
Post by Y***@InBox.Com
After all, it's up to each dog owner to use his/her
judgment in deciding what advice to follow and what not.
INDEEDY. THAT's HOWE COME DECENT PEOPLE DO NOT POST HERE abHOWETS.
Post by l***@claque.net
Absolutely true!
LOOK IT UP.
Post by l***@claque.net
And each of them would be smart to follow trusted,
proven methods, methods that have produced outstanding
results for many, many years, and on dogs of all
temperaments, behaviors, etc.
Yeah? HOWE abHOWET ALL THEM DEAD DOGS you and
your punk thug coward mental case pals MURDERED?
Post by l***@claque.net
(i.e., walking the walk),
Oh? You wanna take a little walk DHOWEN memory lane
with The Amazing Puppy Wizard, tommy?
Post by l***@claque.net
before they waste their hard-earned time "experimenting"
with a "manual" written by a petty, mean-spirited asshole
You mean, The Amazing Puppy Wizard who teaches folks
ALL OVER The WHOWEL WILD WORLD HOWE to pupperly handle
and train and rehabilitate ALL temperament and behavior
problems NEARLY INSTANTLY withHOWET HURTING INTIMIDATING
and MURDRING them like HOWE YOU PREFER, tommY.
Post by l***@claque.net
(along with an few equally ignorant but misguided
groupie) who only talks the talk.
You mean, The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog
Training Method Manual Students ALL OVER The WHOWEL
WILD WORLD who REPORT 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANT
SUCCESS with ALL dogs and ALL behaviors in ALL VENUES,
tommy? YOu mean, the WONS whom you call LIARS, like Lucy?

BWEEEAAAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!

HOWE CAN YOU TAKE THIS KINDA PUNISHMENT, tommy?
Post by l***@claque.net
Experiment on your own dogs.
Lucy don't got to EXXXPERIMENT, tommy. She TRAINED
them in a couple days EZ GENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
and FOR FREE to boot, simply by doin 100% PRECISELY
EXXXACTLY OPPOSITE of HOWE YOU DO to your dogs, tommy.

REMEMBER?
Post by l***@claque.net
--
Handsome Jack Morrison
*gently remove the detonator to reply by e-mail
Let's talk abHOWET your CHUMPion field dogs, eh tommy?
SHOWE US YOUR DOGS, tommy. You got a BIG KENNEL (aka
PUPPY MILL) yet you won't SHOWE US YOUR DOGS? Don't
you think THAT'S a little STRANGE, tommy? HOWE COME
you're an anonymHOWES LYING DOG ABUSING COWARD, tommy?

tommy aka jack aka joey aka DOGMAN wrote:

Sounds pretty "brutal," eh?

So folks, the BIG difference here is that Koehler not only
gives you some good and very traditional advice regarding,
in this case, housebreaking, but gives you some things to
try IF all else fails and you STILL have a problem dog on
your hands after using mostly traditional methods.

That's EXACTLY the stuff that most trainers, most books,
never go over with you. They ABANDON YOU just like they
RUN FROM REAL PROBLEMS.

They only deal with IDEAL dogs under IDEAL circumstances.
Unfortunately, all dogs aren't IDEAL and "problems" can
develop which can easily get dogs KILLED by being taken
to the vet's for TERMINAL NEEDLE "THERAPY."

So it's up to you to use the information according to your
own circumstances and personality. If you want to use other
methods, go right ahead. But when you find yourself in a
bind and all the other trainers and books have DESERTED YOU,
give Koehler a try.

You'll be glad you did.
Post by l***@claque.net
"So grab the line and give him about 5 minutes of the
hardest tanning you can administer. Use a belt heavy
enough to make him really feel your efforts."
--William Koehler
And if you're STILL READIN this VERY COMPELLING STUFF,
dogmana aka joey finnochiario aka jack morrison aka
tommy soronsen (his real name) uses THIS to DESENSITIZE
you from his koehler methods:

In September, 1993, Brenda Pratt Shafer, a registered nurse with
thirteen years of experience, was assigned by her nursing agency to an
abortion clinic. Since Nurse Shafer considered herself "very
pro-choice," she didn't think this assignment would be a problem. She
was wrong. This is what Nurse Shafer saw:

"I stood at the doctor's side and watched him perform a partial-birth
abortion on a woman who was six months pregnant. The baby's heartbeat
was clearly visible on the ultrasound screen. The doctor delivered the
baby's body and arms, everything but his little head. The baby's body
was moving. His little fingers were clasping together. He was kicking
his feet. The doctor took a pair of scissors and inserted them into
the back of the baby's head, and the baby's arms jerked out in a
flinch, a startle reaction, like a baby does when he thinks that he
might fall. Then the doctor opened the scissors up. Then he stuck the
high-powered suction tube into the hole and sucked the baby's brains
out. Now the baby was completely limp. I never went back to the
clinic. But I am still haunted by the face of that little boy. It was
the most perfect, angelic face I have ever seen."

The partial-birth abortion procedure is used after 20 weeks (4 1/2
months) of pregnancy -- often to six months, seven months, and even
later. The difference between partial-birth abortion and homicide is a
mere three inches...

Guided by ultrasound, the abortionist grabs the baby's leg with
forceps.

The baby's leg is pulled out into the birth canal.

The abortionist delivers the baby's entire body except for the head.

The abortionist jams scissors into the baby's skull. The scissors are
then opened to enlarge the hole.

A suction tube is inserted. The child's brains are sucked out, causing
the skull to collapse. The dead baby is then removed.

__

Dogman
Post by l***@claque.net
--
Handsome Jack Morrison
*gently remove the detonator to reply by e-mail
O.K., tommy... but do you think that's SAFE? Here,
lemme give you a little hand with that tricky little
pin...

Oh hey? Well La, Di, Da! Looks like The Amazing Puppy
Wizard HAS FHOWEND WON CASE where BEATIN THE DOG to
HOWEsbreak it WORKED FOR YOU. Here's tommy BEATIN a
dog to HOWEsbreak IT:

"Walkin The Walk," Accordin To tommy sorenson, aka jack morrison
aka dogman aka joey finnochiario etc, etc, etc.

Here's lyingdogDUMMY aka tommy soronson
beatin a dog to HOWEsbreak IT to save ITS life:

But FIRST, a little good KOEHLER trainin:

Koehler On Correcting The Housebreaking
Backslider.

"If the punishment is not severe enough, some of
these "backsliders" will think they're winning and
will continue to mess in the house.

An indelible impression can sometimes be
made by giving the dog a hard spanking of long
duration, then leaving him tied by the mess he's
made so you can come back at twenty minute
intervals and punish him again for the same
thing. (Dogs are REALLY stupid. J.H.)

In most cases, the dog that deliberately does this
disagreeable thing cannot be made reliable by the
light spanking that some owners seem to think is
adequate punishment. It will be better for your dog,
as well as the house, if you really pour it on him."

"Housebreaking Problems:

"The Koehler Method of Dog Training"
Howell Book House, 1996"

Occasionally, there is a pup who seems determined to
relieve himself inside the house, regardless of how
often he has the opportunity to go outside. This dog
may require punishment.

Make certain he is equipped with a collar
and piece of line so he can't avoid correction.

When you discover a mess, move in fast, take him to
the place of his error, and hold his head close enough
so that he associates his error with the punishment.

Punish him by spanking him with a light strap or
switch. Either one is better than a folded newspaper.

It is important to your future relationship that you
do not rush at him and start swinging before you get
hold of him.

When he's been spanked, take him outside.
Chances are, if you are careful in your feeding
and close observation, you will not have to do
much punishing.

Be consistent in your handling.

To have a pup almost house-broken and then force
him to commit an error by not providing an opportunity
to go outside is very unfair. Careful planning will
make your job easier.

The same general techniques of housebreaking
apply to grown dogs that are inexperienced in the
house.

For the grown dog who was reliable in the house
and then backslides, the method of correction
differs somewhat.

In this group of "backsliders" we have the
"revenge piddler." This dog protests being alone by
messing on the floor and often in the middle of a bed.

The first step of correction is to confine the dog
closely in a part of the house when you go away, so
that he is constantly reminded of his obligation.

The fact that he once was reliable in the house is
proof that the dog knows right from wrong, and it
leaves you no other course than to punish him
sufficiently to convince him that the satisfaction of
his wrongdoing is not worth the consequences.

If the punishment is not severe enough, some of
these "backsliders" will think they're winning and
will continue to mess in the house.

An indelible impression can sometimes be made
by giving the dog a hard spanking of long duration,
then leaving him tied by the mess he's made so you
can come back at twenty minute intervals and
punish him again for the same thing.

In most cases, the dog that deliberately does this
disagreeable thing cannot be made reliable by the
light spanking that some owners seem to think is
adequate punishment.

It will be better for your dog, as well as the house,
if you really pour it on him.

"Handsome Jack Morrison"
Post by l***@claque.net
(DogStar716)
Post by Y***@InBox.Com
Never mind dogman :)
You too? Some folks just never learn.
Uh huh :)
One of the signs of mental illness is to say "Uh
huh" a lot.
Post by Y***@InBox.Com
PS: If the "trainer" you were talking about isn't
on this list, he (or she) is NOT an approved
Koehler trainer, no matter how loud you scream
otherwise.
May I laugh again? LOL! One doesn't need to be on
a list to use Koehlers methods or teach his
methods.
Let me be among the first (apparently) to tell you
that not every trainer who uses a leash is a
*Koehler* trainer.
Sheesh.
This person may call herself a Koehler trainer, but
if she's hanging 12 week old puppies, she's about as
far from a Koehler trainer as a dog trainer can
possibly be.
Again, this is just your IGNORANCE showing.
I can call myself a devout Christian, but if I'm not
adhering to the doctrine, I'm something else.
Post by Y***@InBox.Com
http://www.koehlerdogtraining.com/patoflearn.html
Sorry, the very first sentences make me aware that
whoever wrote it knows nothing about PR based
"Amidst the current (and politically correct) trend
in Positive Reinforcement Only training systems"
You cannot use PR only.
Au contraire. Many, many posters to r.p.d.b. (and
many other places as well) *claim* that they use
nothing but R. You know, the PPers.
And they do it quite loudly, too.
Surely you aren't blind (and deaf), as well as
ignorant?
Those are hard handicaps to overcome, Dogstar.
Post by Y***@InBox.Com
And if you knew anything about PR BASED training,
you would realize that. It's not all cookies and
babytalk.
There is no stronger supporter of R than Handsome
Jack Morrison, but I also use every behavioral tool
in my bag, including R-, P, and P-, because I know
that even R has its limits.
You'd know that too, if you didn't have your head in
the sand.
Post by Y***@InBox.Com
But that seems to be the battle cry of the
Koehler-ites.
The Koehlerites have no battle cry.
They have behaviorism on their side, and that's more
than enough.
Post by Y***@InBox.Com
I don't need instruction on how to give my dogs a
proper leash correction as I do not rely on a leash
to control or teach my dog.
That may or may not be suitable for your needs, but
it's not suitable for the majority of dog owners,
especially since the advent of leash laws.
Besides, after just a few weeks of proper Koehler
training, Koehler dogs likewise are no longer in
need of a leash.
That you apparently don't know that, once again
shows me just how ignorant of anything to do with
Koehler you are.
Post by Y***@InBox.Com
My last two dogs have been trained offleash right
from the start, using rewards for what I like, and
nothing for what I don't like.
Good for you, and if that level of training is good
enough for you, fine. But it's not good enough for
many of the rest of us.
Post by Y***@InBox.Com
Again, I'm not saying Koehler doesn't work.
I really have no idea what you're saying anymore,
because you apparently know so damn little about
Koehler and behavioral principles in general that
it's hard to have an informed discussion with you.
PS: It boggles my mind at how stupid you must be to
keep denying that those certain harsh methods are
only for LAST RESORT situations, intended only to
SAVE A DOG'S LIFE, even after I've repeatedly given
you direct *quotes* from Koehler's book saying just
that. It's like you don't even care how stupid
people think you are, or how devious you are, etc.
That can't help your cause any. You'd think that
you'd at least want to *appear* to be honest, even
if you're not. -- Handsome Jack Morrison *gently
remove the detonator to reply via e-mail
"Handsome Jack Morrison"
Post by l***@claque.net
On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 17:52:18 -0400, "Krishur"
Post by Y***@InBox.Com
Good books huh?
Absolutely. Some are, in fact, classics.
Post by Y***@InBox.Com
Which idea was your favorite, the one where they
tell you to alpha roll a "dominant" dog,
There's nothing inherently wrong with rolling a dog
(i.e., it *can* and *does* work in *some*
situations). Unfortunately, most people either do it
incorrectly, do it at the wrong time, etc.
Post by Y***@InBox.Com
or where they tell you that you didn't hit him hard
enough if he doesn't yelp or approaches you within
5 minutes of his punishment?
If physical discipline is deemed necessary (after
careful evaluation), it's much more cruel not to get
it over with quickly than it is to do it
incrementally and half-heartedly, which usually only
invites the need for even more discipline.
Post by Y***@InBox.Com
Maybe you liked when they recommend these beatings
for housebreaking accidents, chewing/destructive
behavior, stealing, trying to get on your bed
at night and dog on dog aggression.
At no time do the Monks *ever* advocate beating a
dog. A swat on the rump or a check to the chin does
*not* constitute a "beating."
I'm sorry if you don't agree.
And each of those behavior "problems" needs to be
looked at in its proper context.
"We repeat, these situations may merit physical
discipline. Since no book can pretend to analyze
every individual dog and situation, we feel
obligated to emphasize from the outset that
discipline is never an arbitrary training
technique to be applied to each and every dog for
all offenses. We do, however, believe that physical
and verbal discipline can be an effective technique.
The best policy if you experience any of the above
problems is to consult a qualified trainer or
veterinarian for evaluation of your individual
situation....
"If discipline is decided upon as a training
technique, it should be the proper technique. We
feel we have developed several methods that depend
less on violent physical force than timing, a flair
for drama, and the element of surprise.
We feel an obligation, as responsible trainers, to
map out
these methods, rather than simply skip the topic
because it is unpleasant. Dog owners want to know
what to do."
In other words, physical discipline is reserved for
those serious, special occasions when other methods
have failed.
For example, they do not recommend using physical
discipline for *routine* housebreaking chores --
only on those rare occasions when an already
reliably housebroken dog is (after careful
evaluation) deemed to be soiling the house on
purpose, backsliding, etc.
I'll give you an actual example. Years ago, an
adult dog was brought to me as an *incurable*
house-soiler. It was either get the dog reliably
housetrained or the dog was going on a one way trip
to the pound. Being the kind, compassionate trainer
that I am, I was prepared to do whatever it took to
get this dog house-trained and save his life.
After several weeks of more or less traditional
training, and to poor result, I brought out the big
guns -- physical and verbal discipline. Whenever the
dog soiled the house (no, you don't even have to
catch him in the act), I immediately (but very
calmly) tossed a leash on his collar, dragged him to
the scene of the crime, and (using a large
chair as a prop) tethered him to the leg of the
chair, with his nose about two inches away from the
poop. After a couple of swats on the rump, some
loud vocalizing, and a wait of about 20 minutes, I'd
release the dog and then ignore him for a while. I
had to repeat this process *three* times, I think --
and the house-soiling miraculously stopped. The dog
went home to enjoy a long and contented life with
his original owners, and I got to feel good about
myself.
So, yes, the Monk's books are good ones. Even for
novices.
Yup, that's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.
-- Handsome Jack Morrison *gently remove the
detonator to reply via e-mail
Here's professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM research
at UofWI, marshall "SCRUFF SHAKE and SCREAM
"NO!" into ITS face for five seconds and lock IT in a
box for ten minutes contemplation," dermer:

"At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function.
But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and
shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases
then you will have achieved too things.

First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased;
and two, you have established "No" as a conditioned punisher.

How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted
biting.

**********IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?************

When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before mild
forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).

"No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog"
to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works," marshall
dermer, research professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM at
UofWI. For MOORE animal abuse, please visit dr p.

BWAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!!!

That's INSANE. Ain't it.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{}TPW ; ~ } >

P.S. Contacting Dr. P:

Please note that due to the large number of
requests I receive, I can no longer give free,
personal advice on problems related to dog
training and behavior.

In order for me to give such advice we would
have to "talk" about the problem at length.

That is, I would need detailed information about
the dog, it's environment and routine, the problem,
and the situation in which the problem occurs.

Thus, this type of consultation takes time which
I cannot afford to give away for free.

If you wish such advice, please see the information
I have provided about my K9 Behavioral Consulting
practice. Another alternative to obtaining personal
advice is to participate in e-mail, chat room, &
newsgroup discussions.

P.P.S. BWEEEEEEEAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!

YOU'RE FRAUDS, drs p. and dermer!

Either DEFEND your LIES, ABUSE And
Degrees or get the heel HOWETA THIS
BUSINESS.

"If you talk with the animals, they will talk with you
and you will know each other.
If you do not talk to them, you will not know them,
and what you do not know you will fear.

What one fears, one destroys."
Chief Dan George

"If you've got them by the balls their hearts
and minds will follow,"
John Wayne.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{}TPW ; ~ } >


"(Also, it is best to killfile posts from the
few regulars here who are either ill-
tempered, ill-mannered, or just plain ill.),"
--Marshall
Post by l***@claque.net
----- Original Message -----
To: "The Puppy Wizard"
23, 2004 2:53 PM Subject: God Bless The Puppy Wizard
Dear Mr. Puppy Wizard,
I have, of late, come to recognize your genius
and now must applaud your attempts to save
animals from painful training procedures.
You are indeed a hero, a man of exceptional talent,
who tirelessly devotes his days to crafting posts to
alert the world to animal abuse.
We are lucky to have you, and more people should
come to their senses and support your valuable
work.
Have you thought of establishing a nonprofit
charity to fund your important work?
Have you thought about holding a press conference
so others can learn of your highly worthwhile
and significant work?
In closing, my only suggestion is that you
try to keep your messages short for most
readers may refuse to read a long message
even if it is from the wise, heroic Puppy Wizard.
I wish you well in your endeavors.
--Marshall Dermer
--------------------------------------
"If you've got them by the balls their hearts
and minds will follow,"
John Wayne.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >

GOT MILK?
Y***@InBox.Com
2005-07-22 22:47:09 UTC
Permalink
HOWEDY sinofabitch,
You have to experience the glory of achieving
difficult things with dogs
Like MURDERIN them. THAT'S DIFFICULT for you DOG LOVERS.
to know what incredible creatures they are
Like SAR dogs, FOR EXXXAMPLE.

BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!
and how they behave in partnership with us.
Oh? You mean like "JOB BURNHOWET?"
<applause>
PLEASE! DON'T SCARE THE DOGS!
And raising a reasonably well-behaved house pet
Like marie's dog Macula who's been through five trainers
and bit a pedestrian and has become FEAR AGGRESSIVE of
dogs thanks to her AGILITY classes to CON-TROLL her
HYPERACTIVITY?

Or lia's dog Cubbe who ESCAPES her surrHOWEND shock system
and BIT her ONLY friend when she stepped into her SHOCK
ZONE and TRIED to attack two kids she'd been playing with
till THEY STEPPED INTO HER SHOCK ZONE, not to MENTTON Cubbe
likeWIZE attacked the vet and bit her boy toy jim?

Or leah's dogs who DESTROYED HER HOWES and bit her five
times and ruined her marriage after her DH SAW her MURDER
her own DEAD DOG Buck for HOWEsbreaking problems.

Or dejaclueless who GOT RID of her dog for SUBMISSIVE URINATION?

Or diane bergman who's first dog DIED at age four from
STRESS INDUCED AUTO IMMUNE DIS-EASE and her REPLACEMENT
is likeWIZE having CHRONIC HEELTH and BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS
THANKS TO THE INFORMATION SHE GOT RIGHT HER FOR FIVE YEARS?

Or marcel's dog who BIT HIS WIFE and GRHOWELS at his brother
and himself when he carries a newspaper and lives in a box
in the cellar?

Or professora melanie's DOMINANCE PISSER Papillion and her
FEAR AGGRESSIVE MAN SHY dog Solo who's been on ANTI PSYCHOTIC
MEDS and INTENSIVE TRAINING at UofPA small animal behavior
clinic for FIVE YEARS WITH NO PROGRESS?

HOWE do you EXXXPLAIN Solo BEING PERFECT when he was BOARDED
for the summer and TAKEN OFF his meds till she RETURNED and
HE WENT NUTS AGAIN?

ALL temperament and behavior problems are CAUSED BY MISHANDLING.
from puppyhood doesn't count as "difficult",
Of curse not. IT'S IMPOSSIBLE FOR YOUR PALS.
despite the fact that so many people don't
seem to be able to manage it.
You mean, the EXXXPERTS HERE CAN'T MANAGE IT DESPITE
THEIR SHOCK COLLARS. Like your personal real life pal
janet who's dogs have 1) run HOWET in the street and
got General Motors Syndrome, 2) COOKED in 104F heat
when IT didn't want to go into the box in the A.C.,
3) ate filthy undies and got INTESTINAL SURGERY Like
diddler's dogs, FOR EXXXAMPLE who ESCAPE their shock
fence and RUN HOWET on her and can't be HOWEsbroken.

But THAT'S on accHOWENT Of you HURT and
INTIMIDATE dogs and LIE abHOWET IT.
He was next to me and I could see his neck
muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.
Janet Boss
I can't imagine needing anything higher
than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive
dog like a Lab.
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
What I have said- repeatedly - is that he took
posts from two different people,
Of curse THAT'S a lie.
took pieces of them out of context,
Of curse. QUOTED. You wanna see it in context?
cobbled them together,
No. There was WON DIRECT QUOTE.
"Neatly," and "Smartly."
and a fake signature.
"sinofabitch" instead of sionnach.
Which is exactly what he did.
INDEEDY. That's HOWE COME you deny it.
The actual quote is misleading
That so?
when taken out of context,
We'd been talkin abHOWET beatin the dog with a shoe...
and Jerry's faked "quote"
The WON sinofabitch totally DENIES.
is downright meaningless.
Only if you're a MENTAL CASE.
Here's Jerry's version
"I Dropped The Leash, Threw My
Right Arm Over The Lab's Shoulder,
Grabbed Her Opposite Foot With My
Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into
Her Throat And Said "GRRRR!" And
Neatly Nipped Her Ear," sinofabitch.
Here's yours;
"I dropped the leash, threw my
right arm over the Lab's shoulder,
grabbed her opposite foot with my
left hand, rolled her on her side,
leaned on her, said "GRRRR!" and
nipped her ear.
--Sara Sionnach
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"

See?
I can't imagine needing anything higher than a 5 with
it, even with an insensitive dog like a Lab.
An INSENSITIVE DOG???

"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
I can't remember what model of Innotek I have, but
I had apointer ignore a neck-muscle-pulsing 9.
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"

Jerking choking and shockin and lockin dogs
in boxes and ignoring their cries makes their
dogs go "EWWWW" but they don't NOTICE
EXXXCEPT to spray BINACA in their eyes
and jerk and choke them on pronged spiked
pinch choke collars and shock and spray MOORE
aversives in their faces.

Do you think the citronella collar is CRUEL cause
the SMELL LINGERS after the dog's been sprayed
in the face and the dog won't know HOWE COME
IT was MACED?
My dogs are not human children wearing
fur- they are DOGS.
They're DUMB ANIMALS they HURT and MURDER.

But REMEMBER,: "The actual quote is misleading
when taken out of context"

Talkin abHOWET MOMS, tara o. aka tee's kid is
takin ANTI PSYCHOTIC meds in first grade. Then
you WONder HOWE COME she locked her DEAD
DOG Summer in a box when kids visited and jerked
and choked and intimidated her till she made Summer
FEAR AGGRESSIVE of small children then she
MURDERED her DEAD DOG Summer cause HURTING
HER DIDN'T WORK.
And if I self-refer as "Mam" sometimes, it's because
I consider myself as part of the dogs' pack,
Yeah... the big dog. The alphalpha bitch. Who
throws dogs to the grHOWEND and climbes all
over them like a raped ape and grHOWELS into
their throat and bites them on the ears and then
DENIES it... after claimin she was PLAYIN.

"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"

From: sionnach (***@email.msn.com)
Subject: Re: Correct use of prong collar
Date: 2001-05-05 13:03:14 PST
Who said that? I would never do or recommend
that, and neither would most of the regulars on here.
Sally Hennessey
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
I've posted my entire quote, since Patch failed to do so.
Take it out of context and you'd think I was flinging puppies
across the room!
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
here's what I said (keep in mind that we're talking about a
A small scruff shake is appropriate if he's
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
very persistant.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Um, may I suggest a re-wording that might make
it clearer- given that "scruff shake" is too easily
misinterpreted as "pick the puppy up by the scruff
of the neck and shake the puppy in the air"?

I think I'd phrase it something like "if the puppy is very
persistant, it can be appropriate to take hold of the
loose skin at the back of the neck and give a slight
shake to the *skin*".

Janet's not talking about actually shaking
the puppy, which I think we ALL agree is
abusive."

"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"

That's INSANE. Ain't it. So's this, here's professor of
ANAL-ytic behaviorISM research at UofWI marshall
"SCRUFF SHAKE and SCREAM "NO!" into ITS face
for five seconds and lock IT in a box for ten minutes
contemplation" dermer:

"At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function.
But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and
shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases
then you will have achieved too things.

First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased;
and two, you have established "No" as a conditioned punisher.

How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted
biting.

**********IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?************

When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before mild
forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).

"No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog"
to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works," marshall
dermer, research professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM at
UofWI. For MOORE animal abuse, please visit dr p.

BWAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!!!

That's INSANE. Ain't it.



"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
I can't imagine needing anything higher
than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive
dog like a Lab.
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
Maybe it was a little emotive, i was just
taken aback by the kind of stuff out there.
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
If you don't know how many of the tools properly
work and are supposed to be used, that's understandable.
And it doesn't help that many of them are MISused by many
people.
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
I should have looked more deeply at this newsgroups
history, seems
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"?
there's a huge running fued between a jerry
howe and 'the regulars'.
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
Not really. A feud requires participation by both sides,
and the regulars all ignore him.
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
The only people you'll find attempting to converse with him
are newbies who haven't yet realized the futility of it.
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
He is, unfortunately, the USENET equivalent of
those sad people you see standing on street corners,
ranting and raving at passersby about conspiracies,
etc.
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
He's been here for five or six years, and has a
well-established and documented habit of posting
under false names; and his habit of crossposting
all over the universe also tends to draw in trolls.
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
He himself is not a troll in the normal sense;
he's a mentally ill person who has an obsession
with the dog NGs.
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
Then i guess i've not seen them used properly,
whenever i have seen one (rarely) the dog's always
straining and wheezing.
That's absolutely improper use.
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
Slip/choke collars are intended to be used ONLY
for training sessions, and the proper way to use
them is to keep them loose, "popping" the collar
(giving a quick upward tug on the leash, then
immediately releasing) to correct or signal the dog.
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"

"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"

"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
Some people who really know how to use them
can signal the dog with a very slight tug which
does nothing but make a noise; the dog reacts to
the sound of the sliding chain rather than to the
physical effect.
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
The chain is just a small physical distraction?
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
Not a distraction; a correction or a signal.
Perhaps you can give me an exmaple of proper use.
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
The simplest and easiest one is teaching a
competition heel; the collar is used to signal
to the dog when the dog is drifting into the
wrong position.
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
I'm not a big fan of slip collars, because IMO,
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
of all the types of mechanical training collars*, they're
the most easily misused/misunderstood & most difficult
to use properly. If I had my way, no slip collar would be
sold without DIRECTIONS attached.
YOU CHOKE THE DOG TILL IT DOES WHAT YOU SEZ.

BWEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!

"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
He was next to me and I could see his neck
muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.
Janet Boss
I can't imagine needing anything higher
than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive
dog like a Lab.
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
He was next to me and I could see his neck
muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.
Janet Boss
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
I can't imagine needing anything higher
than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive
dog like a Lab.
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
He was next to me and I could see his neck
muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.
Janet Boss
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
I can't imagine needing anything higher
than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive
dog like a Lab.
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
He was next to me and I could see his neck
muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.
Janet Boss
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"

The Amazing Puppy Wizard <{); ~ ) >
W***@Animail.Net
2005-07-23 00:51:37 UTC
Permalink
102

HOWEDY tommy,
[]
Do you think that praising Joe Joe would harm Fancy?
Of curse. HOWER DOG LOVERS are AFRAID to PRAISE bad
behaviors on accHOWENT of they got to STOP and PREVENT
and AVOID BAD BEHAVIORS.
Lucy, do you understand what the term "positive reinforcement" means?
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!
Do you understand how it's used (day in and day out)
in the training of dogs (pigs, gerbils, elephants,
chimps, seals, horses, humans, etc.)?
Most often "positive reinforcement" means WITHOLDING BRIBES
and giving them as REWARDS AFTER THE BEHAVIOR has been done.
Kind of a doggy barter system...
Do you understand and/or accept the overall concept/theory
of operant conditioning?
NOT AT ALL, tommy. WHAZZZAT?
http://www.wagntrain.com/OC/#Operant
Oh goody, a link! Lemme see... FORGETABHOWETIT.

TRY THIS:

"George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <***@mindspring.com>
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 4:40 AM
Subject: Fw: Counter Cruising must stop
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 12:18 PM
Subject: Re: Counter Cruising must stop
On another note: I understand why someone
proclaiming a method that works on all dogs,
all the time, would send up "red flag" to you
and others, but the fact remains, if a technique
*doesn't* work 100% of the time, with all dogs,
then there must be a flaw in the philosophy
underlying that technique.
Ditto for dog training. No failure nor flaw of method
is involved - that's just acceptance of reality.
First of all, I didn't say that there was a flaw in the
method, though anyone is welcome to make that
leap.
I said there was a flaw in the underlying philosophy
and its model of learning.
Correction accepted. I think that perhaps we are using
Jerry, I don't know where you find these folk who can't read.
In order to use negative reinforcement, one must
typically administer the aversive stimulus in order
to be able to terminate it.
This is not negative reinforcement. Negative means no.

Positive reinforcement = behavior emitted by dog,
reward emitted immediately by trainer;

Negative reinforcement = behavior emitted by dog,
no response by trainer;

Aversive reinforcement = behavior emitted by dog,
aversive stimuli emitted immediately by trainer;

The term "reinforcement is used only tentatively with
"aversion" because aversive stimuli (aka punishment)
typically derange learning and are not followed by clean
learning curves equivalent to those which follow reward
or positive reinforcement;

Escape conditioning = dog has an aversive stimulus
applied without any dog related reason and when
behavior is emitted aversive stim is immediately turned off .

There is some indication that Escape Conditioning
works in a manner closely approximating reward;
but, ear pinch? -- too aversive.

I remind you that you should beat them over the head
with "The Misbehavior of Organisms" by Breland and
Breland, published in B.F. Skinner's CUMULATIVE
RECORD. Ignored by most profs of psychology, but
the distillation of his work.

NO PUNISHMENT.

Must pay attention to who is the animal?

His evolution, his development, and his personal history -
cannot train without respect for who is the dog? So says
the BIG TIME operant conditioning guru - and you can also
refer back to MARY COVER JONES (mother of scientific
systematic psychology), no loving, no learning.

I suppose I could wire up a dog so that his brain was
badly interrupted and the loving method of puppy training
might not work well - but it would still work better than the
methods used by dominatrix and their ilk.

Lovingly applied ethological techniques like the one
espoused by the Wizard of ALL puppies work for all
dogs, for that matter for all mammals higher than cat.

Indeed, they will work for cats if trainer is warmly competent.

You can see this in Key West on any sunny day.
Housecats performing quite happily.

Fondly, Dr. Von

------------------
If you don't, would you please explain how/where/why
you think that it's all been a Big Mistake?
The Amazing Puppy Wizard is JERRYIZING that link
as we speak. It'll be another HOWER or so for HIM
to finish PUTTIN IT TO you with your "link" on
OC an CC and STUFF you can't even pronHOWENCE.
Maybe next week, if you're game, we can explore
all the errors in the Theory of Gravity, too,
WE DONE THAT ALREADY. It's The LAW of Gravity:

Alpha Dominance, Humping, Einstein, And Law Of Gravity
and why what we've been seeing/learning all these
many years is probably just *another* Big Mistake,
On accHOWENT of all the DEAD DOGS you've enterTRAINED
TO DEATH RIGHT HERE... HOWE'S THAT for ya, tommy?
but this week I'd like for you to just focus on
operant conditioning, etc., 'kay?
O.K., tommy. We'll talk abHOWET HURTING DOGS
someMOORE to make you HAPPY!
Handsome Jack Morrison
*gently remove the detonator to send me e-mail
From: "Jerry Howe" <***@bellsouth.net>
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 10:42:34
Subject: Re: followup to posts [Re: repost
from dog behavior science (Yahoo news group)]

Hello tail,
Hello,
I am posting a followup to my own post, because I wanted
to clarify something for a few of the postings I've read
in response to this.
(Confused yet? I hope not....)
Anyway, the real point to my repost of this message from dog
behavior science was, not that citronella collars are necessarily
"abusive," but that the repression of undesired behavior by using
one (or any force method) can cause that behavior to express itself
in another way, possibly something worse.
That's the problem, isn't it?
Mary here says it in this way: "correction utilizing pain
training does not teach an animal how to behave. It simply
suppresses the behavior. The behavior will, eventually, resurface."
That's why dogs become hyperactive,
self destructive, and aggression.
Perhaps we should take out the word "pain," since it is very
subjective. Perhaps we only need to say "compulsion" methods.
EXACTLY.
I thought it was interesting, considering that some on here have
been saying the same thing as Mary.
There is never any legitimate reason to choke or shock or intimidate
a dog as part of training. Trainers who use force also kill dogs
they cannot intimidate and force enough to make them "respect their
will" as our Thugs like to think hurting dogs achieves.
regards,
Lisa
---BEGIN POST----
07/05/01 08:40 AM
Please respond to dogbehaviorscience
I agree totally with Jean on this.
Also, has anyone had citronella get in their
eyes or up their nose?
I have. It hurts. It burns. And all I did was
sniff a citronella candle.
Why, why, why do people want to hurt their dog
to teach is something?
Slowly but surly we are learning that correction
utilizing pain training does not teach an animal
how to behave.
It simply suppresses the behavior. The behavior
will, eventually, resurface.
Conditioning works.
Positive teaching methods work.
Distraction training works.
Quick fixes don't last.
Sometime ago I met a woman who told me she used the shock
collar to train her dog not to bark at the fence.
As we spoke, I was looking out into her back yard, watching
her dog. Indeed the dog wasn't barking. But is was lunging
at the fence, attempting to get at someone in the next yard.
Her "training" had taught the dog that, while it would be
shocked for barking, it still could still lunge and snap!
When I asked her about it she admitted that the dog's lunging
and air snapping got worse after it stopped barking at people.
Does this make sense???
She also told me that periodically she would have
to "retrain" with the shock collar.
Mary and The Foxes
----END POST-----
Alpha Dominance, Humping, Einstein, And Law Of Gravity

From: ***@my-dejanews.com
Subject: Re: Should I correct my dog's growling?
Date: 1999/05/20

Dear Cindi,
From the tone of your post, I get the impression that
-you-- like a lot of dominance trainers enjoy feeling
or acting superior to others.

Concerning the law of gravity, you are making your
response to what I said way too complicated. I'm well
aware of Newton's work, Einstein's theory of general
relativity, as well as Max Planck's, Neils Bohr's,
Wolgang Pauli's work on quantum theory, and the f...ing
uncertainty principle.

Yes, on a cosmic level, gravity is still largely a mystery.

On a quantum level, it's a slippery little gremlin. But when
an apple falls from a tree, that's the f...ing law of gravity.

Get it?

Objects fall to earth.

Einstein, Planck, and Bohr never disagreed with Galileo and
Newton on this point. When a dog mounts another dog, 99% of
the idiot dog trainers in the world will shout, "He's trying
to be dominant. He wants to be alpha."

This is not objective scientific thinking. It's subjective
animal psychology. It's open to interpretation. Dogs are not
capable of thinking in terms of rank and status. They each
act individually on their own impulses and emotions without
thought for any structural changes in a supposed pack hierarchy.

I know it must be very empowering for you to show off your erudition.
Just as I presume it must feel empowering for you to act dominant
towards the dogs you train. (BTW, dominance is actually a secondary
sexual behavior, which is totally irrelevant
to nature's true purpose for creating the pack instinct--dogs
and wolves form packs in order to successfully hunt large prey.

Their cousins, foxes and coyotes, don't hunt large prey, so
they don't live in packs.) Instead of empowering yourself by
acting dominant to a lesser creature, why not try--just as a
scientific experiment--to empower a dog by opening yourself
up to his real, true, and natural instincts; particularly the instinct
to chase things and bite them.

When you train a dog this way, you will be amazed at how eager,
instant, and willing his obedience becomes. I used to be a
dominance trainer--alpha rollovers, staring contests, leash
corrections, etc.--but found these techniques actually inhibit
a dog's full potential for obedience.

The Pack Instinct is an instinct of group cooperation,
not internal power struggles. Once you realize this,
the need to act dominant--or sexually aggressive--towards
the dog disappears. You seem fairly intelligent.

I hope you can figure this out.

P.S.
I could give a shit about plate tectonics. But thanks anyway.
--
"NATURE IS NEVER WRONG"
--Rousseau
Rober Crim writes:

I assume that I and my wife are those two naive childs since
I freely admit to having read and, I hope, understood enough
of the manual and it's counterparts by John Fisher and the
posts of Marylin Rammell to believe and use it. This naive
child would like to say thank you to both Jerry and Marylin for
putting up with a constant barrage of really infantile crap at
the hands of supposedly adult dog lovers.

The other naive child (LSW) has to put up with the nagging
idea that if people like them had been posting earlier, maybe
we would not have had to hold the head of a really
magnificent animal in our arms while he was given the
needle and having to hug him and wait until he gasped
his last gasp.

To my mind, "naive" is believing you can terrorize a dog into
good behavior. Naive is believing that people that hide
behind fake names are more honest than people that use
their real names. Naive is thinking that dilettante dog
breeders and amateur "trainers" like Joey (lyingdogDUMMY,
j.h.) are the equal or better than those that have studied and
lived by their craft for decades.

"Stupid" is believing that people do not see kindergarten
level insults for what they are. Really stupid is believing that
people like Jerry Howe and Marylin Rammell are going to
just go away because you people act like fools. Why do you
act like fools? I really have no idea, and I don't really care.
And, to date: I've not seen ONE come forward and actually
admit to buying and having success with his little black
box.
I think I'm going to get one myself for Father's day and take
it down to the Animal Shelter for their use and testing. You
would never believe the results, so you'll never know.
Anyone by now that doesn't see a scam man coming by
Jerry's posts deserves to get what is sure to be coming to
him! LOL!
I don't see a "scam man", so I guess I and Longsuffering
Wife and Rollei will just have to get what we deserve, eh?
As Joey (Dogman) says, "poor Rollei.".......right.
Terri
Yes it was, and that is sad.

Robert, Longsuffering Wife and Rollei (do I
get to listen to the box first?)

END OF POST

Hello People,

Robert Crim was a former Gang Of Thugs Member and hated me a
much as the rest of our Thugs do. Robert was a long time friend and
prominent contributor to rpdb, till Jerry came along and smartened
him up. And then they attacked him too. He learned the hard way
and no longer posts to his former pals, because it is just too
painful knowing his pals would rather HURT and KILL their dogs
than to admit that JERRY is RIGHT. J:-(

"I know that most men, including those at ease with
problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept
even the simplest and most obvious truth if it would
oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they
have delighted in explaining to colleagues, proudly
taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by
thread, into the fabric of their lives."
-Leo Tolstoy-

Is it any wonder that the following sig file has generated
more complaints to my personal email than any other
controversial post I have made to date, bar none?:

CAVEAT
If you have to do things to your dog to train him that you
would rather not have to do, then you shouldn't be doing
them. If you have a dog trainer who tells you to jerk your
dog around, choke him, pinch his ears, or twist his toes,
shock, shake, slap, scold, hit, chin cuff, scruff shake or
punish your dog in any manner, that corrections
are appropriate, that the dog won't think of you as the
punisher, or that corrections are not harmful, or if they
can't train your dog to do what you want, look for a
trainer that knows HOWE.

Sincerely,
Jerry Howe,
Wits' End Dog Training
***@aol.com
http://www.doggydoright.com

Nature, to be mastered, must be obeyed.
-Francis Bacon-

There are terrible people who, instead of solving a
problem, bungle it and make it more difficult for all who
come after. Who ever can't hit the nail on the head
should, please, not hit at all.
-Nietzsche-

The abilities to think, rationalize and solve problems are
learned qualities.

The Wits' End Dog Training Method challenges the learning
centers in the dogs brain. These centers, once challenged,
develop and continue to grow to make him smarter.

The Wits' End Dog Training method capitalizes on
praising split seconds of canine thought, strategy, and
timing, not mindless hours of forced repetition, constant
corrections, and scolding.
-Jerry Howe-
T***@AniMail.Net
2005-07-28 12:12:48 UTC
Permalink
HOWEDY marcel,
http://teacher.nsrl.rochester.edu/phy_labs/AppendixE/AppendixE.html
See Part III, Common Mistakes in Applying the Scientific Method.
<<The most fundamental error is to mistake the hypothesis for an
explanation of a phenomenon, without performing experimental tests.
Sometimes "common sense" and "logic" tempt us into believing that no
test is needed.>>
Like: "praising the bad behavior would reinforce that behavior".
Note that if you used the proper terminology,
Let's just talk simple franscaise, the language of DIPLOMACY,
marecel. The Amazing Puppy Wizard has learned MUCH from you.
you woldn't have this problem.
If some of us wasn't trying to CONfHOWEND the DISCUSSION
we wouldn't be having THIS discussion, marcel <{) ; ~ ) >
Using the wrong terminology,
Let's just SIMPLIFY it marcel. The QUESTION IS,
REGARDLESS of HOWE you CALL IT, that The Amazing
Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL.

The ANSWER is in the CASE HISTORY DATA and is
VERIFIED INDEPENDENTLY of HUMAN INTERVENTION
thru The Amazing Puppy Wizard's Doggy DO Right
(And Kitty Will And A Rooster Did And A Cockatoo
And A Horse And A Cow Or Two Did Too) machine.
despite people telling you it is wrong,
You mean the PEOPLE who JERK CHOKE SHOCK BRIBE
CRATE SURGICALLY SEXUALLY MUTILATE INTIMIDATE
and MURDER dogs RIGHT HERE and LIE abHOWET IT.

Like yourself, my friend me <{): ~ ) >
and not asking what the right terminology
The ONLY QUESTION IS, does The Amazing Puppy
Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual WORK LIKE FREAKIN MAGICK only
BETTER, marcel.
is really makes the rest of your conclusions suspect.
The ONLY CONCLUSION Lucy NEEDS is the 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL RESULTS SHE GOT from her
FREE copy of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual SHE GOT and REPORTED RIGHT HERE JUST LIKE ALL
THEM OTHER 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual Students ALL
OVER The WHOWEL WILD WORLD who've LIKEWIZE got THEIR 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESS and likeWIZE REPORTED
IT RIGHT HERE on The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits'
End Dog Training Method Manual Forums And School Of HARD
KNOCKS and HUMAN BEHAVIOR RESEARCH LABORATORIES, marcel.
<<Another common mistake is to ignore or rule out data
which do not support the hypothesis.>>
Like your ruling out all the testimonies of success from
those who were following Jerry's method.
Like Lucy's.
Anonymous letters != proof.
O. K., marcel. CITE WON that CANNOT BE VERIFIED.

Tell Lucy AGAIN that she DIDN'T GET HER 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANT SUCCESS by simply NOT DOIN NUTHIN like HOWE
you and your MENTAL CASE PALS DO, marcel <{); ~ ) >
<<Sometimes, however, a scientist may have a strong belief that the
hypothesis is true (or false), or feels internal or external pressure
to get a specific result. In that case, there may be a psychological
tendency to find "something wrong", such as systematic effects, with
data which do not support the scientist's expectations, while data
which do agree with those expectations may not be checked as
carefully.>>
Like assuming that an e-collar is safer than praising bad
behavior, just because you don't believe that praising bad
behavior in order to stop it would work.
Once again, you cherry-pick what you read.
O.K. marcel. Lucy INVITES you to try The Amazing Puppy
Wizard's dual tuned shock collar challenge...
Because the act in question is occuring with both Joe Joe
and Fancy (IIRC) together, distract and then praising Joe
Joe might have the unfortunate ( and completely undesireable)
effect of telling Fancy that letting Joe Joe pee on her is
acceptable.
Oh? Well OF CURSE you wouldn't wanna OFFEND Fancy, bein
that she's the ALPHA BITCH who usually attacks new dogs
in tara o. aka tee's HOWES to TRAIN THEM on accHOWENT of
tara o. aka tee ain't got no MOORE idea abHOWET HOWE to
handle and train her own dogs any better than you or she
wouldn't of MURDERED her own DEAD DOG Summer and your own
dog wouldn't of bit your Mrs and grHOWEL at you when you
carry the newspaper and grHOWEL at your brother and bark
whine and cry all nite in his crate in the cellar.

AbHOWET "CORRECTING" both dogs for WON dog DOIN
BAD BEHAVIORS, THAT TOO, iS COVERED in your FREE
COPY of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog
Training Method Manual on accHOWENT of that's ALWAYS
a concern in multi dog HOWEsholds where OPPOSITE SEX
AGGRESSION IS almost NEVER heard of EXXXCEPT from
your own pals and their dogs who are HURT and INTIMDIATED
JUST LIKE HOWE YOU DO YOUR OWN DOG, marcel my friend me <{); ~ ) >
<<In a field where there is active experimentation and open
communication among members of the scientific community, the
biases of individuals or groups may cancel out, because
experimental tests are repeated by different scientists who
may have different biases.>>
That's exactly why I think that it's so important that you and
other trainers who are convinced that Jerry's method doesn't
work should try it, in your own hands.
Note that they have never said that it doesn't work,
Note that you're a proven lying dog abusing punk thug
coward active acute long term incurable mental case
who PAID MONEY and took his own dog to classes and
got MISERABLE RESULTS accordin to your own posted
case history. REMEMBER marcel?
just that there are methods that are better explained
Yeah, but they don't work... or you wouldn't be POSTIN HERE.
and work better.
BWEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHHAAA!!!

CITES PLEASE, marcel?
They also mention that not all dogs are the same,
RIGHT! THAT'S HOWE COME THEY AIN'T GETTIN 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANT SUCCESS, marcel.
so not all dogs will react to Jerry's method
Well that's just NOT TRUE, marce, or there'd be
REPORTS from The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100%
CONSITENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual Students
tellin YOU that The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method FAILED.

There ARE WON or TWO who'd CLAIMED they were
TRYING and IT DIDN'T WORK but if you LOOK you'll
SEE that THEY FAILED on accHOWENT of they COULDN'T
STOP HURTING and INTIMDIATING their dogs, marcel.
(or any method for that matter)
Well then perhaps you should go find WON Student
who DID work The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual and
FAILED to GET their 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY
INSTANT SUCCESS, marcel?
It's extremely irresponsible of you, IMO, to expect
others to test your/Jerry's "new idea" on their own
dogs without first establishing some credibility for it.
Well then, there goes the shootin match, eh marcel?
The idea isn't mine - it's Jerry's.
INDEEDY. Took forty years to develop, marcel.
Ummm, there were people practising distract-praise
well before Jerry came around.
And they got 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANT SUCCES?

CITES PLEASE, marcel?

Hey marcel? Remember when you told perry aka bentcajungirl
to set MHOWESTRAPS in her garden to HURT a passing dog bein
walked on leash, and when she asked whoat to say if he
CONFRONTED her was to LIE and say she had MICE in her FLHOWERS?

HOWE COME you'd tell her to HURT a neighbor's dog
for being inconsiderately walked on leash instead
of tellin her to POLITELY ASK that he CURB HIS DOG,
marcel? What kind of gentleman intentionall HURTS
and ABUSES innocent dumb critters and lies abHOWET
it?
--
Marcel and Moogli
http://mudbunny.blogspot.com/
There's ONLY WON KINDA man like that, marcel... a frenchman
who is a liar a dog abuser a coward and active acute long term
chronic incurable MENTAL CASE, marcel.

Au revoire, mon chere.

Oh, bye the bye marcel, you can't post here abHOWETS
nodoGgamenedMOORE. You're personna non gratta.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard <{); ~ ) >

P.S. Is "personna non gratta" french or Greek, marcel?
That could be part of your language problem. <{); ~ ) >

HOWEDY daver,
Puppy Wizard,
HOWE is it possible to take you serioHOWEsly based on your posts?
ONL LIARS DOG ABUSERS COWARDS and ACTIVE ACUTE LONG TERM
INCURABLE CHRONIC MENTAL CASES POST HERE abHOWETS, daver.
I actually read your manual
No, you skimmed through it lookin for QUICK FIX
solutions to a GENERAL problem and YOU GOT YOUR
JUST DESSERTS, daver.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard has BEEN IN THIS BUSINESS
forty sumpthin years and HIS 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual Students ALL OVER The WHOWEL WILD WORLD
REPORT THEIR 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESS
RIGHT HERE on The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Forums And School Of HARD KNOCKS and HUMAN BEHAVIOR
RESEARCH LABORATORIES, daver <{); ~ ) >

YOU'RE SETTIN IN IT.
and against the advice of the other "murderers" here,
Your PALS CALL THEM LIARS and FORGERIES and teach
ignorant fearful guillible needy greedy folks like
yourself HOWE to lock their dogs in boxes bribe and
jerk choke shock intimidate and MURDER your dogs.

90% of veterinary treatment goes for IDIOPATHIC /
IATROGENIC DIS-EASES like CHRONIC EAR / URINARY
TRACT / DIGESTIVE / ADRENAL / PITUITARY / ENDOCRIN /
IMMUNE MEDIATED MYLEAL CELL SYSTEM DIS-EASES and
CANCERS CAUSED BY STRESS INDUCED AUTO-IMMUNE DIS-EASES
aka The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME <{); ~ ) >

WE GOT ALL THE CASE HISTORY DATA NECESSARY TO PROVE
THOSE FACTS, daver, as YOU ARE SEEING RIGHT NHOWE
with your own dog.
decided it was worth a try,
Did you do the PRELIMINARY EXXXORCISES, daver?

Did you do the Hot & Cold EXXXORCISE and the
Family Pack Leadership EXXXORCISE and INSTALL
the COME COMMAND as a 100% RELIABLE INSTANT
CONDITIONAL REFLEX AS INSTRUCTED in your own
FREE COPY of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual, daver,
gentle kindly dog rescuer?

NO. You're TRYIN to BLOW SMOKE up The Amazing
Puppy Wizard's arse, daver, and YOU CAN'T GET
AWAY WITH THAT on accHOWENT of YOUR DOG TELLS
THE TRUE STORY, daver. DOG TRAININ AIN'T LUCK
it's a PRECISE SCIENCE AS TAUGHT in your own
FREE COPY of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual <{); ~ ) >
and I indicated this to you both on this group
You got A LOTTA NERVE daver, tellin these MENTAL
CASES you TRIED The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual AND IT
DIDN'T WORK FOR YOU... that's IMPOSSIBLE, daver.

OTHERWIZE th SCIENCE of BEHAVIOR would be THEORY.
and in private E-mails (to which you do not respond,
ASK RIGHT HERE. THIS IS The Amazing Puppy Wizard's
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual Forums,
AFTER ALL, AIN'T IT, daver <{); ~ ) >
despite your public invitation to contact you).
The Amazing Puppy Wizard has F'd up his email system
on accHOWENT of HE DIDN'T FOLLOW DIRECTIONS HISSELF,
daver. So, meanwhile, HERE'S where you'll FIND HIM.
Even if your dog training technique is a good one,
THAT'S THE PROBLEM, daver. THERE'S ONLY WON RIGHT WAY.
which I believe it might be,
Your newfHOWEND PALS have advised you to bribe
choke and lock your dog in a box, daver. You
HAD ENOUGH YET?
I'm having a hard time trusting it based on the fact that
THAT YOU NEVER STUIDED THE ENTIRE MANUAL, as EVIDENCED BY
YOUR OWN POSTED CASE HISTORY, daver <{): ~ ( >
you appear to be, quite insane.
Seems YOU are the WON who WANTS TO PUNISH your
dog, daver, and HASN'T STUDIED and APPLIED the
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
NON PHYSICAL SCIENTIFIC and PSYCHOLOGICAL TECHNIQUES.
Feel free to respond to my E-mail if you have any
real interest in helping people train their dogs.
Feel FREE to ANSWER The Amazing Puppy Wizard's
QUESTIONS, daver:

1. DID YOU DO THE PRELIMINARY EXXXORCISES.
2. DID YOU INSTALL THE COME COMMAND AS A
100% RELIABLE CONDITIONED REFLEXXX.
3. DID YOU FOLLOW ALL OF THE INSTRUCTIONS
PRECISELY and ASK The Amazing Puppy
Wizard if the METHOD DIDN'T WORK NEARLY
INSTANTLY for you, daver?

The anwers are:

1. NO.
2. NO.
3. Yes, prviately, and The Amazing Puppy
Wizard NEVER REPLIED on accHOWENT of HE
CAN'T OPEN HIS Emaals so you asked LYIN
DOG ABUSING MENTAL CASES to offer their
"ADVICE" seein as The Amazing Puppy Wizard's
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual
DOESN'T WORK IF YOU DON'T FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS
PRECISELY as with ANY SCIENTIFIC FORMULAE <{); ~ ) >

So DON'T BLAME The Amazing Puppy Wizard's MANUAL for
FAILING TO TELL YOU TO FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS, daver.

IT AIN'T A GUIDE, it's a PRECISE SCIENTIFIC FORMULAE.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard <{); ~ ) >

HERE'S HOWE INSANE The Amazing Puppy Wizard IS:

Punish Dogs Children SP-HOWESES With PRAISE,
Unconditional
LOVE, TRUST, And RESPECT <{) ; - ) >

HOWEDY People!

Punish Dogs Children SP-HOWESES With PRAISE, Unconditional
LOVE, TRUST, And RESPECT <{) ; - ) >

From: ***@claque.net
Date: 21 Jul 2005 09:01:23 -0700

Subject: Re: For Handsome Jack Morrison: Collars - belated reply -
Well hey. Get back to us when you have a dog
that isn't perfect, mmkay?
ALL TEMPERAMENT AND BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS ARE CAUSED BY
MISHANDLING and therefore can be CURED NEARLY INSTANTLY
by simply NOT CONTINUING TO MISHANDLE the dog <{); ~ ) >

Subject: Dr. George VonHilshimer Writes:

"No Loving, No Learning."

From: "The Puppy Wizard" <***@EarthLink.Net>
To: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <***@mindspring.com>
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 4:40 AM
Subject: Fw: Counter Cruising must stop
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 12:18 PM
Subject: Re: Counter Cruising must stop
On another note: I understand why someone
proclaiming a method that works on all dogs,
all the time, would send up "red flag" to you
and others, but the fact remains, if a technique
*doesn't* work 100% of the time, with all dogs,
then there must be a flaw in the philosophy
underlying that technique.
Ditto for dog training. No failure nor flaw of method
is involved - that's just acceptance of reality.
First of all, I didn't say that there was a flaw in the
method, though anyone is welcome to make that leap.
I said there was a flaw in the underlying philosophy
and its model of learning.
Correction accepted. I think that perhaps we are using
Dr. Von writes:

Jerry, I don't know where you find these folk who can't read.
In order to use negative reinforcement, one must
typically administer the aversive stimulus in order
to be able to terminate it.
This is not negative reinforcement. Negative means no.

Positive reinforcement = behavior emitted by dog,
reward emitted immediately by trainer;

Negative reinforcement = behavior emitted by dog,
no response by trainer;

Aversive reinforcement = behavior emitted by dog,
aversive stimuli emitted immediately by trainer;

The term "reinforcement is used only tentatively with
"aversion" because aversive stimuli (aka punishment)
typically derange learning and are not followed by clean
learning curves equivalent to those which follow reward
or positive reinforcement;

Escape conditioning = dog has an aversive stimulus
applied without any dog related reason and when
behavior is emitted aversive stim is immediately
turned off .

There is some indication that Escape Conditioning
works in a manner closely approximating reward;
but, ear pinch? -- too aversive.

I remind you that you should beat them over the head
with "The Misbehavior of Organisms" by Breland and
Breland, published in B.F. Skinner's CUMULATIVE
RECORD. Ignored by most profs of psychology, but
the distillation of his work.

NO PUNISHMENT.

Must pay attention to who is the animal?

His evolution, his development, and his personal history -
cannot train without respect for who is the dog? So says
the BIG TIME operant conditioning guru - and you can also
refer back to MARY COVER JONES (mother of scientific
systematic psychology), no loving, no learning.

I suppose I could wire up a dog so that his brain was
badly interrupted and the loving method of puppy training
might not work well - but it would still work better than the
methods used by dominatrix and their ilk.

Lovingly applied ethological techniques like the one
espoused by the Wizard of ALL puppies work for all
dogs, for that matter for all mammals higher than cat.

Indeed, they will work for cats if trainer is warmly competent.

You can see this in Key West on any sunny day.
Housecats performing quite happily.

Fondly, Dr. Von

-------------------
I already HAD such a puppy: he used to bite, he used to
annoy my older dog, he used to make holes in blankets and
dig like mad right in the middle of the sofa. He managed to
chew to pieces a USB cable from the digital camera, a
cellular phone and several history books. Thanks to him I
even had the opportunity to look at the inside of a
computer diskette. He had some other ideas of "home
improvement" that I couldn't agree with - like moving the
content of the garbage bin on the living-room carpet.
In other words, he was acting like a puppy, albeit a
poorly supervised puppy.
Then there must be lots of such puppies among the dogs of the
posters in this group, and they seem to be staying puppies till
the end of their days - despite all your expert training.

Dr. Von wrote:

"I remind you that you should beat them over the head
with "The Misbehavior of Organisms" by Breland and
Breland, published in B.F. Skinner's CUMULATIVE
RECORD. Ignored by most profs of psychology, but
the distillation of his work.

NO PUNISHMENT.

Must pay attention to who is the animal?

His evolution, his development, and his personal history -
cannot train without respect for who is the dog? So says
the BIG TIME operant conditioning guru - and you can also
refer back to MARY COVER JONES (mother of scientific
systematic psychology), no loving, no learning."
It's the same puppy that is now my perfect dog [...]
"It is by muteness that a dog becomes
so utterly beyond value."

Like a confessor Priest?

"With him, words play no torturing tricks..., "
--John Galsworthy.

Don't bet your dog won't tell on you...
Their behaviors reflect
HOWER words, actions and training quirks.
Jerry HOWE, The Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >
In other words, your puppy grew up.
Within a few minutes?

"As Sam Corson (Pavlov's last student) demonstrated for
nearly 50 years at Ohio University (Oxford, O.) there is
no treatment more useful for dogs than tender loving care."
George von Hilsheimer, Ph. D., F. R. S. H., Diplomate,
Academy of Behavioral Medicine.

Outstanding growing up process this must have been, to occur
after repeating just a few times the dreaded praise for bad
behavior!

Lucy

You GET The Critter You TRAINED

A DOG Is A Dog;
As A KAT Is A KAT;
As A BIRDY Is A BIRDY;
As A CHILD IS A CHILD;
As A SP-HOWES Is a SP-HOWES.

ALL Behavior Problems Are CAUSED BY MISHANDLING

ALL Critters Only Respond In
PREDICTABLE INNATE NORMAL NATURAL
INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE Ways;
To Situations And Circumstances Of Their Environment
Which We Create For Them.

Damn The Descartean War of "Nature Vs Nurture."
We Teach By HOWER Words And Actions
And GET BACK What We TAUGHT.

Thurs,Jul 21 2005 2:41 pm
Subject: Re: For Handsome Jack Morrison: Collars - belated reply
[]
The phrase "punish with praise" alone makes my head hurt.
You're now just like Jupiter when Minerva was about to be
born out of his head: it probably explains the very human
reaction to new ideas.
I've always had a fondness for new ideas, theories, etc., Lucy.
"A Completely New Model Of Learning"? Naaah. Pavlov Told
Us So 100 Years Ago. Sam Corson, Pavlov's Last Student
Demonstrated At UofOH Oxford, That Rehabilitation Of
Hyperactive Dogs Can Easily And Readily Be Done Using
TLC. Tender Loving Care Is At The Root Of The Scientific
Management Of Doggies. <{) ; ~ ) >

http://makeashorterlink.com/?E 3BA2197B

http://groups-beta.google.com/ group/rec.pets.dogs.behavior/
browse_frm/thread/a94c849289d9e189/2cffe51c95d54362?q=corson+management+leecharleskelley+larry+von&rnum=23&hl=en#2cffe51c95d54362
It's precisely what made me pursue the concept of using an e-collar
in the training of dogs. Who would have thought that a little
electricity could work so well?
THE MISBEHAVIOR OF ORGANISMS - Keller Breland and Marian Breland:

"However, psychologists as a whole do not seem to be heeding
these admonitions, as Whalen (1961) has pointed out.

Perhaps this reluctance is due in part to some dark
precognition of what they might find in such investigations,
for the ethologists Lorenz (1950, p. 233) and Tinbergen (1951,
p. 6) have warned that if psychologists are to understand and
predict the behavior of organisms, it is essential that they
become thoroughly familiar with the instinctive behavior
patterns of each new species they essay to study":

http://makeashorterlink.com/?O 28A2497B

http://groups-beta.google.com/ group/rec.pets.dogs.behavior/m
sg/091dce...
But I don't much care for the folks who offer them up, but
then refuse to adhere to the scientific method while testing/
Subject: R.P.D.B. Syndrome

http://www.phule.net/mirrors/u nskilled-and-unaware.html
http://www.apa.org/journals/fe atures/psp7761121.pdf

UNSKILLED AND UNAWARE OF IT: HOW DIFFICULTIES IN
RECOGNIZING ONE'S OWN INCOMPETENCE LEAD TO INFLATED
SELF-ASSESSMENTS

Across 4 studies, the authors found that participants
scoring in the bottom quartile... grossly overestimated
their best performance and ability. Although their test
scores put them in the 12th percentile, they estimated
themselves to be in the 62nd.

- Never attribute to malice that which can be
adequately explained by stupidity.

- Sufficiently advanced incompetence is
indistinguishable from malice.

- Insufficiently advanced malice is indistinguishable
from incompetence.
http://teacher.nsrl.rochester. edu/phy_labs/AppendixE/Appendi xE.html
See Part III, Common Mistakes in Applying the Scientific Method.
"The Methods, Principles, And Philosophy Of Behavior
Never Change,
Or They'd Not Be Scientific And Would Not Obtain
Consistent, Reliable, Fast, Effective Results
For All Handler's
And All Dogs,
NEARLY INSTANTLY,
As Taught In Your FREE Copy Of The Puppy Wizard's FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual,"
The Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >

<<The most fundamental error is to mistake the hypothesis for an
explanation of a phenomenon, without performing experimental tests.
Sometimes "common sense" and "logic" tempt us into believing that no
test is needed.>>

Like: "praising the bad behavior would reinforce that behavior".

<<Another common mistake is to ignore or rule out data which
do not support the hypothesis.>>

Like your ruling out all the testimonies of success
from those who were following Jerry's method.

------------------------

Everything we've been taught about dog behavior by the
likes of HOWER DOG LOVERS is DEAD WRONG.

"Your Method Takes Positive Training To The Next Level And
Should Really Be Used By All Tainers Who Call Themselves
Trainers," Kay Pierce, Trainer, Thirty Years Experience.

From: <***@aol.com>
To: <***@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2002 7:22 PM
Subject: Re: Wits end Training
Hi Jerry,
Send the post to whom ever you wish to. Believe
me I will keep you updated. I got to tell you His
amazing progress almost makes me cry.
Kay Pierce
====================
I have been trying for the last 18 months to help my
dog who became fear aggressive at 18 month of age.
I do not know what started the problem but he came
aggressive first with dogs and then began lunging and
snapping at people. Until this time he loved everyone
and could play with any dog. He was well socialized
ad I took him with me everywhere.
At 13 months he passed the Canine Good Citizens
Test except he could let me leave him. I had used
clicker training to teach him manners and tricks but
it was not working on his aggression problem.
I took him to vets who suggested a low protein diet,
trainers who charged $800 to only make him worse.
They tried to use a prong collar and he froze, urinated
and tried to climb on my head to help him. they then
suggested a shock collar I knew this approach was not
working as he was becoming more aggressive.
I took him to an animal behaviorist with Ph.D. 400 miles
away who told me to "KEEP HIM SAFE" and read a book
on the fearful canine. I tried another trainer who tried to
use a nylon chock collar but it only made him worse.
I read hundreds of books,"CULTURE CLASH", "DOG ARE FROM
NEPTUNE", "THE OTHER END OF THE LEASH", ETC looking for help.
We finally went to Purdue University Small Animal Behavior
Clinic and they said he had fear aggression, punishment would
not work, use the gentle leader and when out walking and he
got stressed have the people stop until he could get in control
using treats,and work on clicker training.
At that point I knew more about clicker training and using
the gentle leader than they did! Nothing was working--he
would not come when I called him and would run away when I
tried to catch him.
I was afraid to walk him even in the neighborhood as we had
become that "mean dog and women who hasn't trained her dog"
I went to four trainers in both Michigan and Florida who
were trainer/specialists in aggression and the last two were
so afraid of him they could not approach him. No one said
I should give up on him and kill him but they would say
"You have to realize he is dangerous and you are
responsible for him."
You got LUCKY, Linda... They coulda got Sunshine
DEAD on us. Damned near did... too.
As last resort I tried the internet again--I had had on
going discussions with trainers from Triple Crown and Dr
Meister with out any help-and I found the ad to Doggy Do
Right and messaged Jerry to ask if this might help my dog.
He said solving the aggression problem was EZ but I could
not believe him even when I downloaded the manual.
The name of the method was right I was at my Wits End.
I had been working for 18 month!
Using the can sound three time he came, and still comes
from anywhere with the command-"comegoodboy" Next
I tried the can when walking him--when he saw a dog three
blocks away he went off-lunging and snapping-I used the
can sound and he looked at me like uhn?
I used it three more times and we got to the other dog-
-the looked at me wagging his tail--the other person
looked at me like why are shaking that can but just walked
on by.
When ever I try to explain about the sound people look at
me like "you must be out of your mind"
The results can make a believer!!!
Three weeks since beginning the Wits End Training
Manual program I walked him without the gentle leader
in a busy shopping area with many dogs.
He just seemed to not notice any one.
When people talked to him or ask his name he would
look at then and wag his tail and let then pet him.
I still can not believe the change in him--we can now
enjoy life out in public.
If I had not found the Wits End method I know there
was no hope for him and he would have hurt someone
Through all this he never growled at me, guarded his
toys or food or showed any sign of aggression with me.
My goal is to get the message out to all dog lovers that
dogs can be trained fast, easily and problems solved with
out force, pain, food or anything but sound and praise!!!!
I know most people would have given up on him a long time
ago but he was and is my life. Solving the problem was EZ
but only with the right approach-sound and praise.
I know because I tried everything else and nothing worked!!!
================================

From: Linda Daniel
To: Jerry Howe
Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 1:06 AM
Subject: Re: - Re: dog aggression

Thanks for writing--I would be happy to do almost anything
to get your approach out to dog owners as I know it would
save so many lives. I know at times I was so frustrated I
thought of giving up on Sunshine but of course I never would
have but many people would have. The world just does not
know you can train a dog in just a few sessions and actually
solve problems.

We will be here until late April and we really have no plans-
-just to enjoy the warmth and sun of Florida, so any time
you could meet us would be great. I drive so I would be
happy to come to you anytime anywhere!

We went to Celebration today and two little poodles got
right into his face and he just sat there--I GOT a little
scared but he handled it just fine.--a couple of times people
would ask his name and want to pet him and he just went
to them tail wagging and rolled over for them rub his tummy.

He really just is not concerned about people passing, even
those on rollerblades! I have always used a gentle leader
in public but he spent most of time rubbing his face on the
grass--today I used his collar and he was so much happier!!

Only problem is he will stop to smell and I can not get
stopped soon enough to keep the leash loose. He never
pulled ahead of me but when he gets into smelling I have
a hard time getting him going--at times I think he could
smell a blade of grass for 10 minutes.

I can never thank you enough for giving Sunshine back!!!!!

I wrote to Purdue and told them about him being able to
walk in a crowd with out the /gentle leader and not having
a problem with other people and dogs.

I told them their advice did not work. Their advice was
to use the gentle leader at all times and when he was
around people or dogs to have him sit and reward with
treats--one really good suggestions was to have people
coming toward us stop when he got stressed or aroused
and not move until we backed away-

- can you just see me yelling at people to stop on the
street until I get his attention with treats.

They also suggested the possibility of using drugs-prozac-
but thought he was too dangerous as the drug would make
him less fearful and then he might attack or become more
sure of himself and become dominate aggressive. Just had
to share their great advice with you but I am sure you have
heard it all--even I am becoming an expert on bad advice.

----------------------------------

<<Sometimes, however, a scientist may have a strong belief that the
hypothesis is true (or false), or feels internal or external pressure
to get a specific result. In that case, there may be a psychological
tendency to find "something wrong", such as systematic effects, with
data which do not support the scientist's expectations, while data
which do agree with those expectations may not be checked as
carefully.>>

Like assuming that an e-collar is safer than praising bad behavior,
just because you don't believe that praising bad behavior in order
to stop it would work.

"I'd call the SHOCK fence effective and safe.
Humane is one of those hot words that people
can debate all day so I won't touch that one.
There are people who would call a regular chain
link fence inhumane," liea altshuller.

"I know this is a hard subject to bring up without starting
the whole cruelty thread again so I'll state my opinion once
and won't defend it further: any method can be cruel for some
dogs.

Even the slightest punishment was wrong for Cubbe at the
beginning, but we've come a long way since then. She trusts
us now as I mentioned in a recent post. Point is, she's been
rewarded for coming, but she's never been punished, even in
the mildest way, for not coming.

Is it time for that?

What might I look for to tell?"
After talking with the vet yesterday and watching
Cubbe all day today, I'm convinced that the shaking
is behavioral, not physical. Naturally I'll continue
keeping an eye on her, but when I add everything
up, I don't see symptoms of anything neurological--
and the vet agrees.
--Lia
<<In a field where there is active experimentation and open
communication among members of the scientific community, the biases
of individuals or groups may cancel out, because experimental tests
are repeated by different scientists who may have different biases.>>

That's exactly why I think that it's so important that you and other
trainers who are convinced that Jerry's method doesn't work should
try it, in your own hands.
Hey, do like me, and killfile Jerry.
He has millions of people aleady reading his
posts and watching him extract his soggy foot
out of his mouth! Out of these MILLIONS, I've
only seen 2 naive childs come forward and
actually believe in his training manual.
Robert Crim writes:

I assume that I and my wife are those two naive
childs since I freely admit to having read and, I
hope, understood enough of the manual and it's
counterparts by John Fisher and the posts of
Marilyn Rammell to believe and use it.

This naive child would like to say thank you to both
Jerry and Marilyn for putting up with a constant
barrage of really infantile crap at the hands of
supposedly adult dog lovers.

The other naive child (LSW) has to put up with
the nagging idea that if people like them had been
posting earlier, maybe we would not have had to
hold the head of a really magnificent animal in our
arms while he was given the needle and having to
hug him and wait until he gasped his last gasp.

To my mind, "naive" is believing you can terrorize a
dog into good behavior. Naive is believing that
people that hide behind fake names are more
honest than people that use their real names.

Naive is thinking that dilettante dog breeders
and amateur "trainers" like Joey (lyingdogDUMMY,
j.h.) are the equal or better than those that have
studied and lived by their craft for decades.

"Stupid" is believing that people do not see
kindergarten level insults for what they are. Really
stupid is believing that people like Jerry Howe and
Marilyn Rammell are going to just go away because
you people act like fools.

Why do you act like fools? I really have no idea,
and I don't really care.
And, to date: I've not seen ONE come forward
and actually admit to buying and having success
with his little black box.
I think I'm going to get one myself for Father's day
and take it down to the Animal Shelter for their use
and testing. You would never believe the results, so
you'll never know.
Anyone by now that doesn't see a scam man
coming by Jerry's posts deserves to get what
is sure to be coming to him! LOL!
I don't see a "scam man", so I guess I and
Longsuffering Wife and Rollei will just have to get
what we deserve, eh? As Joey (Dogman) says,
"poor Rollei.".......right.
Terri
Yes it was, and that is sad.

Robert, Longsuffering Wife and Rollei (do I get to
listen to the box first?)

===============
IMO, you're making all of them, plus adding few new ones.
Oh? Such as? Can you be more specific about what
exactly are the mistakes that *I* am making?
I don't now whether Peach is dead or alive.
I do know she's not here with us. I really can't
blame anyone here for her loss. I'm the one
who ignored your advice.
I did it because of how you write/wrote.
I was unwilling to accept the idea
that my using a shock collar could have
any bearing on Peach not wanting to stay
home.
Up until I started using it my main concern
had been keeping my dogs in their own yard.
Once I started using the e-fence...well,
then my concern became how to keep
them from running off for days on end.
I lost valuable training time becoming
embroiled in the anti-shock debate and
the "Jerry sux" tirades.
I lost one dog but I have the bestest dog in
the world now <g> A Wits End> Trained dog,
one who is completely housetrained,
doesn't chew up stuff, stays in the yard,
and doesn't bark all the time.
IOW a great companion and friend.
Thanks Jerry!
=====================
We just installed a PetSafe brand fence this
Spring. Two dogs, two collars We now have
one dog and no collars.
Peach and Zelda would run thru
the fence, not want to come back in the yard
and would run for days.
The last time, Peach didn't come back home.
I used the Wit's End Training Manual to
learn how to train my dog. She is now
border trained. A few minutes each day
reinforces her desire to stay in the yard.
She no longer runs out into the road, I
can stop her from chasing cats and she
no longer cringes when we walk around
the yard.
I can not say loud or long enough how
much I hate the e-fence and its collars.
If you can't get a regular fence
then you need to train your dog. I will never
rely on an electronic collar to keep my dog in
our yard again.
The price was too high:-(
~misty
============
As I've said to you before, go down to your local shelter and test your
so-called "new idea" on many, many dogs, dogs of all sizes, shapes,
temperaments, and on all kinds of behaviorial problems.
Who is the dog expert here, Jack, I or you?

Who is the one responsible for the lives of "many, many dogs etc."?

I tried Jerry's method on my own two dogs. It worked. I came here and
said so, just as many others did before me. You're skeptical about our
results? Fine. Do the experiment yourself. Or at least demonstrate why
it wouldn't work, in what specific instances. CAN you do that, or it's
too big a job for you?
It's extremely irresponsible of you, IMO, to expect others
to test your/Jerry's "new idea" on their own dogs without
first establishing some credibility for it.
The idea isn't mine - it's Jerry's. I just added my modest data,
obtained on my two dogs, to the numerous cases in which the method
worked, as reported by Jerry and by those who applied Jerry's method.
Your dismissing of both a theory that you do not understand and of the
results of so many various people without bringing even the shadow of a

proof to support your position is ignorant at best and dishonest at
worst.
And to do that, you really need to push yourself away from your keyboard
long enough to actually go TRAIN SOME DOGS, a LOT OF DOGS, using this
"new idea." And then you're going to have to convince people that your
"new idea" produces better results than their own, more or less well-
established, "ideas" do.
HOWEDY tommy,
On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 06:31:43 퍍 (UTC),
[]
I'd been warned that prior owners reported
marking in the house so since the beginning
I've treated him as if he is not housebroken -
HOWEsbreaking is INSTINCTIVE at four weeks of age.
- supervised, crated if I can't watch him so
he has no opportunity for accidents,
IOW she's DISAVAILED him of TRAINING OPPORTUNITIES.

Locking a dog in a box TEACHES IT that the box
is his HOWES and your HOWES is his terrortory
to FHOWEL.

BWEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!
praise and treats EVERY time he goes outside.
That's sheer idiocy. IN FACT, rewarding behaviors
with treats often TEACHES the dog to DO undesirable
behaviors to get you to give up another TRAININ TREAT.
But what do you do when he marks?
She's NICELY told him "DON'T YOU DARE!"
Exactly.
Dogs PISS their HOWESES on accHOWENT
of they're EITHER SICK ANXXXIHOWES or
UNHAPPY.
Since allowing him to continue doing this
She AIN'T allHOWED him to CONtinue DOIN it, tommy.
is counter-productive
EVERY THING melanie has done to "TRAIN"
her dogs has been C-HOWENTER productive
as EVIDENCED BY her RESULTS after three
years IN TREATMENT at UofPA Small Animal
Behavior Clinic with her FEAR AGGRESSIVE
MAN SHY dog Solo:

"Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It
A Sharp Tap Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know
Jack Wouldn't HaveDone It If He Thought Solo
Couldn't Take It. I Still Crate Him Because
Otherwise I Fear He Might Eat My Cat," melanie.

You think allowing a "FEAR AGGRESSIVE MAN
SHY" dog to be BEATEN by a strange male trainer
is INTELLIGENT BEHAVIOR for a DOG LOVER?
I have no choice but to keep in crated almost
all the time, which I don't feel good about.
WELCOME to The Amazing Puppy Wizard's
HUMAN BEHAVIOR LABORATORY. Seems
melanie is lookin for PERMISSION to HURT
her dog someMOORE.
Not necessarily.
Right. She could tether Skeeter to her leather
garter belt and jerk and choke IT when IT pisses.
You need him to keep marking (for at least a few
more times) so that you can CORRECT him for it.
You mean HURT and INTIMIDATE IT someMOORE, tommy.
As you rightly stated, this is "separate
from housebreaking."
RIGHT. It's ANXXXIHOWESNESS. It's an OCD, tommy.
It's a dominance issue.
THAT'S INSANE.
But I also feel angry and frustrated.
THAT'S a DOMINANCE ISSUE.
As do most people in your situation,
THAT'S HOWE COME DECENT PEOPLE
DO NOT POST HERE abHOWETS, tommy.

REMEMBER?
and that's why so many dogs like
Skeeter end up on Death Row.
You mean like the DEAD DOGS you've been
HEELPFUL in MURDERING RIGHT HERE,
tommy?

You koehler fans love to jump on the FEAR
of DEATH bandwagon to JUSTIFY HURTING
DOGS.

Till you get AFRAID to HURT them someMOORE.

Then you MURDER them and try to blame
the breed or the breeder or the handler for
NOT HURTING the dog ENOUGH.
You've let this dominant behavior
You mean Skeeter's DOMINANCE PISSIN, tommy?

THAT'S INSANE.
go on now for (as well the previous owners),
what, 5-6 months?
THAT'S IRRELEVENT. DOMINANCE PISSIN
is CAUSED by FEAR INSECURITY and MISTRUST.
That's going to make it harder to modify,
Yeah.
but, yes, it can be done.
But not by any method you know of, tommy.
OtherWIZE you wouldn't HURT and INTIMIDATE
dogs when you RUN HOWETA ideas and information.
But it's up to you, Mel. Not Skeeter.
You got any SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE of
DOMINANCE PISSIN, tommy?
Is there anything else I can try,
MIGHT try Voo Doo. It ALWAYS works
for The Amazing Puppy Wizard <{) : ~ ) >
other than treating Skeeter like he
isn't housebroken, forever?
[]
BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!
I have never seen you mention any kind of
OBEDIENCE TRAINING for Skeeter, but
that might have been just an innocent omission.
Yeah, you can be SHORE melanie has been
TRAINING Skeeter. IN FACT, she MENTIONED
just the other day she couldn't take Skeeter into
HOWES Depot on accHOWENT of she needed
ALL her attention on Solo to prevent IT from attackin
someWON during his SOCIALIZATION after three
years on ANTI PSYCHOTIC MEDICATIONS at UofPA.
I hope you're not falling into the trap that
many owners of small dogs fall into, by
not thinking that your little guy needs any
OBEDIENCE TRAINING?
You mean jerking and choking on leash.
Because he does!
EVERY WON NEEDS JERKING and CHOKING ON LEASH.
If you haven't started yet, I'd get started
with it TODAY, and make sure that you
devote at least 20 minutes a day to it for
the next couple of months.
You mean to CURE a BEHAVIOR problem
CAUSED BY MISHANDLING IN OBEDIENCE
TRAINING that can be EXXXTINGUISHED
NEARLY INSTANTLY by simply NOT DOIN
what melanie has been doin to TRAIN her dogs.
Keep him confined to the crate
LIKE THAT, for EXXXAMPLE.
when you can't observe him, etc.(just
like you would do during routine housebreaking),
HOWEsbreaking is INSTINCTIVE.
but the next time he *marks* inside, you
*must* CORRECT him for it.
You mean HURT him, tommy.
It's *your* house, not his.
No. His CRATE is HIS HOWES, tommy.
melanie's HOWES is his TERRORTORY
to FHOWEL.
The precise moment he starts to mark again,
reach down and grab his collar (yes, this is
known as a "Come to Jesus" session),
Jesus was a DOG LOVER like you, tommy?
rough him up a bit by shaking the collar back and forth,
JUST LIKE HOWE Jesus woulda done, eh tommy?
make some noise, e.g., say "NO! Not in MY house,
Dogs don't TALK ENGLISH, tommy. You COULD
grunt and squeal like a pig and it'd be MOORE
meaningful. OR you could LIMIT your WORDS
and do it like HOWE your pal professor SCRUFF
SHAKE teaches us to do:

Here's professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM research
at UofWI, marshall "SCRUFF SHAKE and SCREAM
"NO!" into ITS face for five seconds and lock IT in a
box for ten minutes contemplation," dermer:

"At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function.
But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and
shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases
then you will have achieved too things.

First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased;
and two, you have established "No" as a conditioned punisher.

How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted
biting.

**********IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?************

When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before mild
forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).

"No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog"
to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works," marshall
dermer, research professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM at
UofWI. For MOORE animal abuse, please visit dr p.

BWAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!!!

That's INSANE. Ain't it.
you little shit!!!"
"If you talk with the animals, they will talk with you
and you will know each other.
If you do not talk to them, you will not know them,
and what you do not know you will fear.

What one fears, one destroys."
Chief Dan George

Dogs don't LIKE to be CUSSED, tommy.
And then IMMEDIATELY slap a
leash on him and take him outside for a walk.
For WHAT, tommy, as a REWARD for MARKING?

BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!

THAT'S INSANE!

Marking got NUTHING to do with NEEDING
to RELIEVE themselves, tommy.
Really put him through his paces, being as
*assertive* as you can.
Oh! You mean take the dog HOWET to
JERK and CHOKE IT someMOOER, eh tommy?

A WIZE IDEA to relieve the dog's ANXXXIHOWESNESS.
Return him to the scene of the crime
and then REPEAT the above.
You mean JERK and CHOKE IT someMOORE, tommy.
Yes.
Of curse. That'll make the dog LOVE workin
on his OBEDIENCE and will RELAX the dog.
All of it, including the walk.
As a REWARD? Or to DISTRACT
him from his BAD BEHAVIOR, tommy?

BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAAAA!!!
Put him back in his crate,
You mean HIS HOWES, tommy.
ignore him for a while,
To make the dog FEEL HAPPY.
clean up the mess, etc.
Cleanlieness is next to G-Dlieness.
Don't forget the ENZYME cleaner
to HIDE the marks from the dog...
Just keep at it for a few weeks -
Kinda like HOWE she's DONE for five months.
- RELIGIOUSLY -
BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!

Your Jesus TEACHES a pretty WEIRD RELIGION
of HURTING INTIMDIATING and MURDERING
innocent DUMB ANIMALS, eh tommy?
- and you should see signs of improvement pretty quickly.
Yeah?

You mean INSTEAD of NEARLY INSTANTLY
if you stop HURTING and INTIMDIATING and
LOCKING IT in a box and takin IT HOWET every
two HOWERS.

You SEZ:

"If you haven't started yet, I'd get started
with it TODAY, and make sure that you
devote at least 20 minutes a day to it for
the next couple of months."
Let me know how it goes.
BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!

Like laura arlov's DEAD DOG Chewie and kwbrown's
DEAD DOG Teena and steve walker's DEAD DOG
Sampson and purple pony's DEAD DOG Raggdoll
and tara o. aka tee's DEAD DOG Summer and
Robert Crim's DEAD DOG Fritz?
Handsome Jack Morrison
*gently remove the detonator to reply by e-mail
AND THIS:

HOWEDY tommy,
It's a dominance issue.
While I don't disagree that it COULD
be a dominance issue
Yeah. Dominance peeing is insidiHOWES.
i have also seen this behavior related to an anxiety issue.
Naaah?
Yup.
Yeah?
Anxiety over his place in the pack.
Oh, of curse. The dog wants to do the shoppin an bankin.
The Doggie World abhors a leadership vacuum.
Yeah. That's HOWE COME they VOTE.
IMO, Mel has more dogs on her hands
than she can probably provide sufficient
attention, training, and leadership to.
THAT'S INSANE!
I hope I'm wrong.
You always are, tommy. REMEMBER?

She's got three little dogs.
If anxiety is the issue,
It's EITHER THAT or the dog is SICK.
then treating as you describe could increase anxiety.
You mean SCRUFF SHAKING and CHOKING IT on leash.
IMO, the guy is simply looking for some leadership from Mel.
Yeah. The dog WANTS HER TO CHOKE HIM
like she does Solo to make him calm and friendly.
Without it,
You mean relentless choking for dominance peeing.
he's perfectly willing to assume it by claiming
things for himself.
Is THAT HOWE COME the dog PISSES on YOUR STUFF?
Especially "new" things.
That so?
Not to mention that there's another male
dog in the household.
But IT has been sexually MUTILATED like this WON.

Besides, sex doesn't matter or suja and culprit's
OPPOSITE SEX dogs wouldn't attack each other.

WOULD THEY.

UNLESS THEY WAS ABUSED.
It is very important to discover what the
underlying motivation is.
FEAR OF BEING CHOKED AND CRATED USUALLY DOES IT.
This little guy's apparently been marking
for a long, long time (maybe because
everyone's been, IMO, far too concerned
with what the "underlying motivation" is,
i.e.,
FEAR.
a kind of paralysis of analysis).
Yeah. On accHOWENT of NUTHIN melanie
has done has worked for three years under
the guidance of UofPA small animal behavior
clinic.
There's probably no way to ever know for
sure what this little guy's "underlying motivation"
is/was.
It's EITHER the dog wants to take over
the bankin or the shoppin. Other than that
there's no other leadership roles in the HOWES.
And it's now become a habit.
No. The dog is being driven INSANE
by a dog abusing psychopath.
But by correcting this ugly behavior
UGLY, tommy? Is pissin as ugly as gettin beat by a
drunken lying punk thug coward mental case?
when it occurs, and at the same time,
providing the leadership *every* dog is
looking for (e.g.,
CHOKING IT, tommy?
through OBEDIENCE TRAINING, etc.)
You mean a come to Jesus meetin, eh tommy?
will almost certainly lead to a more
relaxed, contented little dog.
INDEEDY!
Anyway, that's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.
Yeah. But you're a lying anonymHOWES dog abusing
punk thug coward and active long term incurable mental
case. OTHER WIZE you wouldn't be an anonymHOWES
lying dog abusing punk thug coward and you'd post the
winning show trial hisorys of your PRHOWEDLY
EXXXHIBITED FIELD DOG CHUMPIONS, like any
other RESPECTABLE BREEDER of FIELD DOGS
for forty years, eh tommy sorenson?

BWEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHAAHAA!!!

Hey tommy? Remember that time you got drunk
and forgot to set your screen identity to DOGMAN
and it came through as tommy sorenson?

BWEEEEEEEEAHAHAHAHAA!!!

REMEMBER HOWE you DENIED IT, tommy?
PS: I will also never understand why some
folks think it's okay to squirt a dog in the face
with, say, a vinegar/water solution(!),
Who'd do sumpthin AWFUL like THAT, tommy?
but seem to go bonkers at the thought of
a little tug on a dog's collar,
You mean a little CHOKING, tommy?
etc.
And shocking, tommy?

And beatin your dog with a heavy man's leather
belt like HOWE it SEZ in your koehler book, tommy?

Hey tommy? Where does a lying dog abusing punk
thug coward find a heavy MAN'S leather belt? Does
koehler think REAL MEN BEAT DOGS with belts like
HOWE it SEZ in his book you're always recommending?
Nope, I probably never will.
Oh, bye the bye tommy, when your memory
comes back you'll REMEMBER you can't
post here abHOWETS nodoGgamenedMOORE
on accHOWENT of you're a lying dog abusing
mental case and coward.

REMEMBER tommy?

---------------------------------
Good luck with that!
Dog trainin AIN'T LUCK. "Luck is for SUCKERS,"
The Puppy Wizard's DADDY <{); ~ ) >
But just talking the talk ain't gonna cut it.
Go to the link you yourself provided and read again.

Everything.

Starting from the beginning.

Lucy

"The day may come when the rest of the animal creation
may acquire those rights
which never could have been withholden from them
but by the hand of tyranny.
The question is not can they REASON,
nor can they TALK,
but can they SUFFER?" -
- Jeremy Bentham

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised
for the good of its victims,
may be the most oppressive.
Those who torment us for our own good
will torment us without end,
for they do so with the approval of
their own conscience." -
- C.S. Lewis.

"Death is better, a milder fate than tyranny",
Aeschylus (525BC-456BC),
Agamemnon.

The greatness of a nation and its moral progress
can be judged by the way
its animals are treated." ~ Mohandas
Gandhi -- Adapted with permission from his FREE
copy of The Puppy Wizard's FREE Wits' End Dog
Training Method Manual. <}TPW ; ~ ) >

Force training JERRYIZES dogs...
and GETS THEM DEAD.

All truth passes through three stages.
First, it is ridiculed.
Second, it is violently opposed.
Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
-Arthur Schopenhauer

"Thank you for fighting the fine fight--
even tho it's a hopeless task,
in this system of things.
As long as man is ruling man,
there will be animals (and humans!)
abused and neglected. :-(
Your student," Juanita.

"If you've got them by the balls
their hearts and minds
will follow,"
John Wayne.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{}; ~ ) >
T***@Mail.Com
2005-07-29 09:03:43 UTC
Permalink
HOWEDY Robert,

alt.smokers.pipes,
Subject: Re: OT-You gotta get some of these things
Longsufferingwife just returned from a
business trip to Wood's Hole, Mass.
Did the Mrs. have the opportunity to swing
bye paulette aka Kind2Dogs aka "TOO
MANY NO KILL SHELTERS" aka "Pups" nolan's
RESCUE / SHELTER facility to THANK her for
offerin to accept janet boss's student nessa's
dogs despite their record of turnin on their
owner? janet FREAKED HOWET at that, KNOWIN
you can't ETHICKALY RE HOWES a owner aggressive
dog due to insurance liability.
for a conference on marine affairs, etc.
Pardon The Amazing Puppy Wizard Robert, HE got
so carried away with BUSINESS that HE forgot to
mind his P's an Q's an say HOWEDY! <{); ~ ) >

Perhaps bein preoccupied with WORK is a DHOWEBLE
edged sword, eh? At least work is likeWIZE PLEASURE
for some of us, Like HOWE The Amazing Puppy Wizard
was just tellin HIS Mrs. HOWE much HE enjoys bein
able to train dogs all over the WHOWEL WILD WORLD
for FREE, a lifelong DREAM HE'S had <{{): ~ ) >

LIKE THIS:

"The Glory Of Achieving Difficult Things With Dogs"
especially RESCUE / SHELTER / FOSTER CARE dog lovers
like "TOO MANY NO KILL SHELTERS" nolan and lying "I
LOVE KOEHLER" lynn and her PARTNER in rescue sindy
SADIST MOOREon <{); ~ ) >

lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.
- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.
Lynn K.

"Unfortunately, some confrontation is necessary,
just to be able to handle the dogs. For example,
we need to crate train a dog immediately because
they are usually in need of medical care and they
are in foster homes with other dogs.
It's a safety necessity," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.


"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn QUOTING her koehler book.

"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch Right,
Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They Have A Very
Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse Into A Heap.
About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep The Pressure Up
to ENHANCE THE BOND between handler and dog".

THAT'S lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn's PERSONAL REAL
LIFE PAL and partner in RESCUE sindy SADIST MOOREON,
author of HOWER FAQ's pages on K9WEB.COM.

There goes The Amazing Puppy Wizard not mindin HIS
P's an Q's forgettin to ask HOWE'S livin the good
life these days, Robert? The Amazing Puppy Wizard
and tommy was just talkin abHOWET Webster askin
Willis on "Different Strokes" "WHATCHOU TALKIN
BHOWET, willis?"

From: Handsome Jack Morrison <handsomejackmorri...
@thedetonatorearthlink.net>
Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2005 14:35:34 -0400

Subject: Re: Ack! I've messed up already!

Note: The author of this message requested that
it not be archived. This message will be removed
from Groups in 1 day (Jul 30, 2:35 pm).

CuriHOWES THAT, AIN'T IT, Robert? Ask "jack" his
name and he'll tell you to GUESS... maybe even
give you a list of twenty names to choose from.

REMBER? At least tommy was able to do THAT witHOWET lyin.
Of curse he DENIED who he is DESPITE the PROOF in his
own posted case history.

On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 11:44:05 -0500, shelly
i have yet to have a dog learn that whining = good
stuff. whining, in my world, is *not* tolerated (i
get murderous urges when i hear whining).
I'd say that's because you probably don't/didn't
do things that would have reinforced his whining.
if you're whining, it'd damned well better
be for a good reason.
And if you always do things to assure that he only
thinks to whine when there's a really good reason
(e.g., Hey! I'm actually freakin' dying in here!
I promise!), like *always* make sure that his bladder/
bowel is empty before putting him inside his crate,
keep the crate in your bedroom at night, etc., and
only put him in the crate to help with house-training,
temporary separations, etc.

Hey, you either trust in operant conditioning (and
especially the power of positive reinforcement) or
you don't.

Reinforce (reward) the behaviors you want repeated;
punish (correct) the ones you don't.

Dogs/pups quickly understand and even appreciate
this CONSISTENCY and CLARITY in our actions as
much as other human beings do, IMO.

Maybe more.

Because, like little Webster could, they can't
say "What you talkin' about, Willis?"

--
Handsome Jack Morrison
*gently remove the detonator to reply by e-mail
-----------------------------
When she walked through the door Faithfuldog greeted
her with more than the usual abandon. He was out of
his little pea-brained head barking and sniffing and
growling.
Perhaps you shoulda locked IT in a box and corrected his
WHINING and BARKING with some OC (Operant Conditioning)
like HOWE tommy SEZ like HOWE tara o. aka tee done to
make her own DEAD DOG Summer GO INSANE and FEAR AGGRESSIVE
of SMALL CHILDREN <{): ~ ( >
It seems that Longsufferingwife had brought home 4 big
(2lbs each) live lobsters in one of those cooler boxes.
Well Robert, THAT SHORE beats (no offense to noWON who DOM'T
DO what they DO) the shit HOWETA the pupster goin off over
a couple rolls from the restraunt in a napkin in your pocked
that makes Cubbe go bonkers. She's STILL ALIVE, BTW, surprise
surprise THAT is. You DID see where she attacked her ONLY friend
as she stood in her SHOCK ZONE JUST LIKE HOWE to TRIED to turn
on them two kids she's been playin with till they stepped into
her SHOCK ZONE agian... kinda like granvilles Golden went off
and attacked a kid in the face for standing next to a fence at
the park, a PREDICTABLE, SUPERSTITIHOWES / REFLEXIVE behavior.
The critters were very lively and were scratching at the
styrofoam trying to get out of the cooler box before dinner
time.
NO PROBLEMO, Robert:

lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.
- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.
Lynn K.
They didn't make it.
PREDICTABLE, to say the least. HOWEver, they
was SACRIFICED for food, not to satisfy lynn
and tommy's fragile defective ego's, weak,
fearful mind and to compensate for their colossal
inferiority complexes <{): ~ ( >

ed w of Pet Loss NEVER DID say R.I.P. Fritz. Did he.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard LIKES to REMEMBER stuff <{); ~ ) >
She passed up the opportunity for a 12lb lobster because
there wasn't a cooler box big enough for it. I think one
that large would be dangerous in the cabin of an airplane.
You only want the box to be big enough for
them to stand up an turn arHOWEND so they
won't shit an piss in it and take the blanket
HOWET so they won't use it like a wee wee pad <{); ~ ) >
You'd probably have to buy it a ticket.
Charge it to the shelter / foster care program.
Now, a 2lb lobster is about twice as large as the ones
you see down at the local supermarket in those scummy
tanks with the bubbles and green walls. Face to face
with a big, fresh caught lobster even Faithfuldog backed
off.......
Yeah, it takes awhile even for people to suss them
HOWET as noted in the thread.
because I took the rubber bands off the claws.
Ooops!
Heh, heh, heh.
Yeah, The Amazing Puppy Wizard done that with
a dozen Rock Crabs in Haiti. They came from
the fisherman who tied up tighter than a duck's
ass with vines, stacked up with a handle on top.
He didn't get pinched, but he did get whacked on the nose.
Well, these critters was too TALL to fit in a pot
so The REALLY REALLY Amazing Puppy Wizard cut the
vine and they all came HOWET at WON time like DEAMONS
HOWETA Pandora's box calquing their claws <{): ~ { >
After the hijinks were over and the pot of salted water
had begun to boil it was time for the cookin' to begin.
They like that part? The crabs didn't even wanna cooperate.
Longsufferingwife had to leave and she took Faithfuldog with her.
Which end do they prefer goin in first?
I was alone with my victims.
"SACRIFICE," Robert.
I picked up the first lobster and snipped the rubber bands.
Even a lobster shouldn't go to Valhalla wearing rubbers.
I stuffed him head first into the boiling water and thought
good thoughts about how well he would be appreciated in
about 15 minutes.
As it should be.
He was quickly followed by another.
And a good time was had by WON an all.
Once those two were done and transferred to a big plasti tub
"Cleanlieness is next to G-dlieness", eh Robert?
<snip dinner>
I am now enjoying the left over wine and a large calabash
of Haddo'slayered with Cumberland. My favorite Bach is one
the CD player so all is well this evening.
EXXXCELLENT. Not wantin to disturb your basking from
your festive repast Robert, HOWEver, there's some talk
goin on that needs to be straightend HOWET, if you don't
mind?
My fingers still smell like lobster though.
Yeah. Just like "anchovies", eh Robert? Try scrubbin
them with a little Lysol in the morning like tommy
sez <{): ~ { >
R................obert
From: "LESPERANCE/DEAKIN" <***@total.net> -
Date: 1999/10/06
Subject: Re: Separation Anxiety

Well Jerry, I have to hand it to you. It worked!

Our dog was very well behaved until I had to go on the road
for my work this summer. I was gone twice for 10 long days
each time. Although there were still people home, I am the
"primary care-giver" to my dog, so he became destructive (shoes,
books, rugs, papers etc)

We have a crate, but I believe it is too small for him now -
he is a cross golden/gsd and when he sits or stands he cannot
hold his head up as the top is too low, so I didn't want to
crate him while I went to work for sometimes 8 hours.

Anyway, I decided to try your method with the toy.

I would find a toy, tell it to be good and place it in his crate.

After just 3 days, there was no more destruction in the house -
even when daughter or hubby forgot to put their shoes away!

Now the toy stays in the crate all day, and he even crawls in
to be with the "good toy" when I leave.

He seems quite proud when we come home.

Marcie (Winslow's mom)
----------------------------

That was just an aside, not for nuthin, sumpthin LONG
ago forgotten abHOWET that The Amazing Puppy Wizard
just happened to come across searchin for this to
lead into the PUPORSE for this post in response to
Lucy's questons below. Lucy is FACINATED by TRUE CRIME
and the PATHOLOGICAL MIND:

From: Jerry Howe <***@bellsouth.net>

Date: 1999/10/07
Subject: Re: Separation Anxiety

Thanks for the feed back, Marcie, I appreciate it.

I'm just real glad that my advice worked for you and your dog.

That's what makes it worth all of the ridicule and
criticism that I've taken from the less intelligent
"dog people" here.

Dealing with this group is much like eating a
lobster for the first time...

That brings us to the alpha theory, which is a lot
like eating a lobster for the first time, so we'll
leave that for another thread.

5/15/01 10:00 a.m.

But the pit bull breed is a peculiar critter, much like
eating a lobster for the first time. There we've got an
interesting dichotomy where we revere hot blooded dogs
with big hearts for hurting other dogs, with the dependable
predictability that if one of their dogs ever growels at
their pitbull lover, he'll instantly kill IT to protect
the reputation this fine dog has earned in the hearts of
our wonderous dogmen who brought us this gentle, playful,
dog killing breed.

Makes me wonder who's side our pit bull fanciers are on.
They kill their favorite breed faster than any other,
perhaps that's because they fear them.

We only kill what we fear or eat. Care for some Cheddar?
Anchovie? Go ahead, we'll wash the stench of death off
you with the lysol, that's what it's here for.

Canis55 writes:

Hi Jerry,

Tell marybeth I don't use electric collars, and the
post she's quoting from does not say that I do.

And while you're in there, ask her how we are supposed
to accept her word that Cindy's dogs are not intimidated
by Cindy, when she thinks it's cute or funny that her own
dogs and paulette's dogs are intimidated by them respectively.

(lobster thread) Bunch of morons these guys.

5/15/01 10:10 a.m.

Canis55 writes:

P.S. Tell marybeth to shut her stupid wang sucker. Canis55

Adios, mb. j;~}

From: "Jerry Howe" <***@cfl.rr.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 07:22:46 GMT

Subject: Re: Marking::instinct::p-mail

Hello Canis55,

This guy is like trying to eat a lobster for the first time.
Thank you, for your reply. It's nice to be challenged
in a civil and thought provoking way.
He comes off with this line of malarkey and responds
to my in depth discussion of the particulars with
"snake oil," and he runs like a curr dog with his tail
on fire and refuses to come out and discuss the issues.

He's got no argument because when you have an argument,
you speak. That's why they attack Doggy Do Right (and
Kitty Will Too). You'd think they'd pick my manual apart
and shove it so far down my throat proving my errors, but
they CAN'T...

We're dealing with cowards.

From: "Stone" <***@y.com>
Date: 2000/06/26
Subject: Find a home for a Family Puli who has Bitten

I never thought, as an animal and dog lover, that I would be
posting a desperate letter like the one below. If you have a
moment, your thoughts would be appreciated.

* Is there any rescue, farm or home in America that
will take our family dog that has bitten?

We have a knee-high Puli sheepdog that has bitten and
we have decided to not keep him in our home. He finally
bit me (the male in our 3-member family) and now we must
act.

The dog is great and our home is gentle and free of
stress... he has NEVER been mistreated and my wife
and I BOTH work at home. He plays with kids and smiles
alot.

The problem is simple. He is stubborn to a fault. He will
obey 99% of the time but the 1% he does not he will growl
and never back down. (my bite came on trying to discipline
when he returned onto our bed a 3rd time).

Mine is not the first bite. but like mine, the
recipient just decided to forget about it.

Nuf said.. In short a great dog. 3 year old, non-neutered
male pedigree. We have worked tirelessly and methodically
to try to teach, praise, discipline, out-think and generally
train our dog... for 3 years.

He is simply too dominant for our family life and now my
child is frightened of her own dog (since my bite).

I need to find a home for my dog, I would certainly
donate to the shelter...

How can I ever place him?
Is there a shelter farm?
Can money solve this problem?

Thanks to all in advance....
Sid

HOWEDY Lucy,
Could you please post this current testimony and
bring evidence that he had reverted to the old
methods he had employed with Fritz?
------------
Pryor to FORGETTIN, could you correct this link
you provided, it won't work. Maybe run it thru
"makeashorterlink" or "tinyurl" please, Lucy?:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.pets.dogs.behavior/browse_frm

lyin "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn has been sayin the same
same same same RHOWEND HOWES of lies since DAY WON
and she's NEVER SAID ANY WON OF those same same same
same "FACTS" twice. EVER. She's a PATHOLOGICAL LIAR
and ANY discussion with her will end in INSANITY
trying to pin her DHOWEN with her own written words
which she will CONSISTENTLY DENY even pryor to the
HTML gettin dry <{); ~ ) >
Nope.
Of curse not.
I won't speak for Robert or anyone else,
Well, yeah, YOU wouldn't but lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
just FABRICATED Robert's REALITY again sayin Robert
NEVER USED the methods he's currently using on accHOWENT
of he's currently using the MOORE COMFORTABLE jerking
choking shocking crating bribing and intimidating that
got his DEAD DOG Fritz DEAD ON US thanks to lying "I
LOVE KOEHLER" lynn and tommy soronsen and wm koehler <{); ~ ) >
when they're perfectly capable of doing so for themselves.
EXXXCEPT that he AIN'T READIN his FORMER FRIENDS
makin LIARS and MENTAL CASES HOWETA everyWON tryin
to DEFEND their alleged RIGHT to HURT INTIMIDATE
and MURDER dogs so they'll have COMPANY in their
MISERY.

Ask lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn HOWE MANY SEARCHES
her SELECTIVELY BRED HAND PICKED and TESTED SAR dog
JIVE WORKED pryor to RETIREMENT.

Ask her WHAT IS the DEFINITION of RETIREMENT
and ASK HER HOWE does a critter who's NEVER
WORKED retire from his field of MAKE BELIEVE.
Good!
LUCKY for you, eh lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn?
Neither would I.
Of curse not, you'd make him LIVID and he'd
PROBABLY RESORT to his OLD METHODS and CHOKE
HER TO DEATH *(Note: THIS IS NOT A SUGGESTION.
The Amazing Puppy Wizard CHOOSES LIFE IN PAIN
over PAINLESS DEATH for dog abusers.)

HOWEver, The Amazing Puppy Wizard got NO PROBLEM
for askin HIS Student to clarify the matter, ESPECIALLY
KNOWIN HOWE MUCH WORK it was for The Amazing Puppy
Wizard to WASH that koehler crap HOWETA HIS HEAD
so he didn't REPEAT HIS MISTAKES as we've seen
tara o. aka tee doing with HER REPLACEMENT Boxer
Rescue Dog for her DEAD Boxer Rescue Dog Summer
whom SHE MURDERED despite The Amazing Puppy Wizard
offerin her a PERMENANT SAFE HOWES FOR FREE <{); ~ ) >
As a matter of fact, I thought that you were
talking about information that was posted,
therefore not confidential.
You think that was COINCIDENCE?
He's been asked to email you directly.
That so? That's HUGELY curiHOWES, ain't it,
that the TRAINER who GOT HIS DEAD DOG Fritz
DEAD ON US would seek REFERENCES from her
FORMER DEAD student DOG'S OWNER?
I'm afraid
LikeWIZE. Sumpthin like THAT could PROVOKE
any normal human bein to commit DESPICABLE
CRIMES against a other living critter...
that this would be rather difficult,
INDEEDY. And it COULD GET DANGERHOWES if
someWON was still HURTIN and NEEDED an
anxiHOWESNESS RELIEF MECHANISM like MURDERIN
SUMPTHIN <{); ~ ) >
since my claque.net address seems to be no longer working.
Unlike DOG TRAINING Email is such an imperfect science.
Besides, I do not think that it would be such a good idea;
NOT A PROBLEM. The Amazing Puppy Wizard will simply
cross post this and a copy of a couple pertinent posts
from this thread to the pipe smoker's or guitar groups
HIS Student Robert posts to NHOWE that he and his NEW
LIVE DOG Rollie got PLENTY of time to enjoy the finer
things in life other than constant reinforcement as
is always the case with DOGS who don't master their
doggy language.
I believe that it would be much better if you could
ask him to post whatever he has to say right here,
NO PROBLEMO. The Amazing Puppy Wizard will take
the liberty of prevailing upon Robert to set the
record straight AGAIN seein as HOWE those OLD POSTS
tend to be MISTAKEN and IRRELEVENT <{); ~ ) >
for everybody to see.
Pssst? PERHAPS you're FORGETTING? EveryWON who'll
be SEEIN are lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn's SUPPORT
and NETWORKING group... who likeWIZE HATE Robert
for HOWE he MISTREATS Rollie by PUNISHING him with
PROLONGED INTERMITTENT NON PHYSICAL PRAISE and NO
COOKIE or PHYSICAL REWARDS for GOOD BEHAVIORS.

HOWE can a dog LEARN LIKE THAT???

BWEEEEEEEEEEAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!
That, supposing he is willing to do so, of course.
HOWE could Robert NOT be available to HIS Amazing Puppy Wizard?
If he chooses to do so,
EXXXACTLY WHO ASKED Robert PRIVATELY to reply
to you, Lucy? Would it be likely lying "I LOVE
KOEHLER" lynn would DO sumpthin PRIVATELY that
she WOULDN'T DO in PUBIC <{); ~ ) >
I hope you'll be honest enough
Ooops! There goes the shootin match again, eh Lucy???
to post if your opinion of his experience is changed.
INDEED. The QUESTION of HONESTY has someHOWE shifted
to YOU, Lucy? When has YOUR HONESTY EVER been QUESTIONED?

SEEM to The Amazing Puppy Wizard that you're TOO SMART
to GET BAGGED FOR LYIN or even THINK abHOWET such a vile
LOATHESOME PATHOLOGICAL behavior <{); ~ ) >
This is one more reason for me not to want to be
e-mailed privately. I couldn't post his e-mail
(supposing he would decide to send it),
Well SHORE you could. Robert NEVER HID his address.
IN FACT, tommy used to post his HOWES and phone right
here so his PALS could call and INSULT him for studyin
The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual and POSTING IT RIGHT HERE and buyin TWO
Doggy Do Right Machines for his NEW LIVE dog Rollie
and his girlfriend <{); ~ ) >
I couldn't prove that there was no e-mail
Your WORD is unblemished, Lucy, UNLIKE that of
The Amazing Puppy Wizard who THREW IT HOWET by
posting all them FORGED TESTIMONIALS and LIES
abHOWET the GOOD PEOPLE here abHOWETS.
(supposing that he'd never send it)
It MIGHT still be TOO PAINFUL. Folks who are
FORCED to MURDER their own dogs take it very
seriHOWESLY and NEVER FORGET. HOWEver, seein
as The Amazing Puppy Wizard would ask to heelp
others UNDERSAND THESE NEWS GROUPS Robert couldn't
HEELP but promptly thank lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
PERSONALLY RIGHT HERE for all her HEELP with
his DEAD DOG Fritz <{); ~ ) >
and I couldn't show the reasons for my changing or
for my not changing my opinion, once those reasons
would be given to me confidentially.
NOT TO WORRY, Lucy. The Amazing Puppy Wizard
will cross post this to HIS Student over in
pipe smokers or guitars...
If Robert Crim wants his present opinion known here,
WHAT do you supposed MIGHT have CHANGED?
in this group,
Oh, well yes, THAT HAS changed, AS HE SAID. He
can't face his former pals who TAUGHT HIM HOWE
to HURT and MURDERED his DEAD DOG Fritz.
then it is up to him to post it right here,
Well, The Amazing Puppy Wizard would probably send
a second cross post till he SEES the request.
in his own words,
The Amazing Puppy Wizard spent MANY HOWERS
talking with Robert on the phone and emails.
as he sees fit.
He'll SEE fit, but he will HURT doin so, of curse.

NO PROBLEM. This AIN'T been a walk in the park
for NO WON here abHOWETS, given that CAREERS
REPUTATIONS and the entire industry are jeaopardized
by The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FABRICATIONS and FLIGHTS
of FANCY BWEEEEEEEEEAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
Neither you, nor I, should speak in his name.
The Amazing Puppy Wizard will take the liberty
to do so, seein as HE knows Robert as only Robert
knows hisself <{); ~ ) >
Neither your credibility nor mine could benefit
from making statements that one was not able to
support.
PERHAPS THAT'S HOWE COME The Amazing Puppy
Wizard doesn't fear speakin for HIS Student
Robert, givin that HE HAS NO CREDIBILITY here,
being the lying spamming scamming fraud that
lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn and tommy soronson
and Master Of Deception blankman and professor
SCRUFF SHAKE dermer and thier STOODGES have so
graciHOWESLY pointed HOWET to EVERY NEW POSTER
who's ever come here lookin for HEELP <{); ~ ) >
Lucy
From: ***@claque.net
Date: 27 Jul 2005 10:50:04 -0700

Subject: Re: For Handsome Jack Morrison: Collars - belated reply
Let's talk then about the testimony of someone who had
posted here before having tried Jerry's method, someone
who started by trusting Jerry about as much as you do
and who had the opportunity to compare Jerry's method
Robert Crim. Does this name sound familiar? Would HIS
testimony have any credibility in your eyes?
*************************************
Let's not OVERLOOK others, like Lisa B and Misty,
who both used shock collars PRYOR to gettin INDOCTRINATED
by The Amazing Puppy Wizard to NOT HURT and INTIMDIATE
their dogs. IN FACT, Lisa B had a lotta difficulty with
separation anXXXIHOWESNESS on accHOWENT of she was scolding
her kid... till she FIXED THAT error.
**************************************
Heh. First, you don't know Robert.
First, you have no idea whether I know him or not.
This is a surprisingly small world. For instance,
there are at least two other people who post here
and whom I know from another group. So it would be
wiser to refrain from guessing, IMO.
Second, you have no idea what he
is doing now with his new dog.
Second, from what he is posting elsewhere, both he and
his dog seem to be just fine. The most important, the
dog is still alive - six years after having been trained
by Jerry's method. His previous dog didn't survive till
his 3rd birthday.
Third, I'm assuming Jerry is still quoting some
things Robert said 5 years ago in grief after
putting down a dog he loved after a serious bite.
Third, soon after he had put Fritz down, Robert wrote
some pretty vitriolic posts directed at Jerry. Apparently,
it took him some time and thinking to decide to try something
different with his new dog.

Rollei was trained according to Jerry's method, so
Robert had the opportunity to compare the two kinds
of training methods first hand.

*************************
LikeWIZE Disciple Paulie and others...
*************************
Fourth, Robert never used Jerry's method.
Fourth, you're absolutely wrong. Not only that he
did, but he reported what he did - and the results
he got - right here.
He was looking for answers in his grief at that point in time.
It rather seems that he was looking for a training
method that would not result in another dead dog for him.
Fifth, why would the testimony of someone who spoke
in anger 5 years ago be meaningful?
Fifth, why does the fact that the dog was trained 5
(actually, 6) years ago would invalidate the success
of the method?
Sixth, why would the current testimony of someone
who made those statements, then chose to use methods
other than Jerry's for his dogs since then matter either?
Could you please post this current testimony and bring
evidence that he had reverted to the old methods he had
employed with Fritz?

As about whether such a testimony matters or not, I think
it would be interesting to see what a poster you all know
and who has had first hand experience with BOTH kinds of
training has to say.

In any case, I hope that you agree that Robert's posts
were genuine, though you don't seem to credit him with
much judgment beginning from the moment he said anything
good about Jerry's method.
Lucy, you tend to be a bit gullible in absence of real information.
What would be that REAL information
that would make me less gullible, Lynn?
That includes information about Robert Crim.
Well, I found the information in this thread extremely
interesting - and not only in what Robert Crim is concerned:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.pets.dogs.behavior/browse_frm...


Enjoy!

Lucy
Could you please post this current testimony and bring evidence that he
had reverted to the old methods he had employed with Fritz?
------------
Nope. I won't speak for Robert or anyone else, when they're perfectly
capable of doing so for themselves. He's been asked to email you
directly. If he chooses to do so, I hope you'll be honest enough to
post if your opinion of his experience is changed.
Lynn K.
And if Robert has any reservation to replying,
<snip>
#5 Putting him to sleep or living with this (arrgh) is all I see.. I cannot
really believe that this is solvable as an obedience problem ... it is more
likely a behavior modification (your a dog!!!) issue. I would certainly love
to hear this is solvable with neutering a good start.
Thanks to all..
From: "Jerry Howe" <***@cfl.rr.com>
Date: 2000/06/26
Subject: Re: Find a home for a Family Puli who has Bitten

Hello Sid,
You are all very nice ...
Don't bet on it...
Thanks. Here is more...
#1 We will neuter him now, but did not so far, in case a breeder
wanted him.
He doesn't have a sexual problem.
#2 I was bitten (on the thumb) when in the process of
punishing him, basically being locked out on our porch...
He was passive until the last minute when he clearly knew
he was going to be separated from us and "punished" by
something he did not like. He knew I was furious... but
probably also knew he was in now physical danger.
Punishing and scolding and conflicting with your dog
are YOUR behavior problems, not the dog's.
#3 I have decided to never engage him in a raging
fight until he submits.
Dealing with you is a lot like eating a lobster for
the first time... You aren't going to figure it out
until you've destroyed a few good dogs...
I think he would never forget and be always vigilant
from then on. I feel this would make him know more,
fear less, and make matters worse.
Yes, it is always inappropriate to try to fight with a
dog. That's why we have bigger brains, not bigger teeth.
He has never seen this type of escalating battle. He
have (until know) always let me punish and forgive.
No, not forgive. Dogs remember and fear and strike back...
just like people do...
#4 This is genetic, we have heard this from those who
know the breeder....
It might be genetic in your family, but your dog is fine...
Puli's don't accept being pushed around... They are much more
civilized than some humans.
He has ALWAYs tried to compete with me for 'dominance'
with my wife.
No, you've cmpeted with him for ''dominance," and now he's
going to pay the price for you mishandling him...the alpha
dominance theory is BUNK. Dogs owned by ''dominance'' freaks
end up dead, and the blame is laid on the breeding, not the
mistreatment and mishandling of their less than intellectual
handlers... Sorry, but you've got it coming.
He only oppressive in this manner... never to strangers
whom he always is "normal" with.
BECAUSE STRANGER DO NOT CHALLENGE HIM. YOU DO. IT'S
YOUR BEHAVIOR PROBLEM, NOT THE DOG'S.
The oppression is once of simply sitting and watching
(leering?)... but it is a dominance driven presence.
He's PROBABLY waiting for you to say HOWEDY!

That's why trying to straighten out your thinking is a lot
like eating a lobster for the first time...Sometimes it's
not worth the effort.
#5 Putting him to sleep or living with this (arrgh) is all
I see.. I cannot really believe that this is solvable as an
obedience problem ...
It's even EASIER than that, but you've got to forget all
about the bunk you've been ''taught.''
it is more likely a behavior modification (your a dog!!!) issue.
Hey, unless you want to be a lobster, it's YOUR problem YOU'RE A
HUMAN... YOU are supposed to be above rising to some frivilous
imagined ''challenge'' from a lowly dog... USE YOUR BRAINS.
I would certainly love to hear this is solvable with neutering
a good start.
Neutering might make you less aggressive, but it will not take
the crusteceon level thinking out of your mind.
Thanks to all...
You'll thank me if you read the Wits' End Dog Training Method
manual available for free at http://www.doggydoright.com Or,
you'll kill this dog, and possibly your next... Jerry.

From: ***@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu (Marshall Dermer)Date: 2000/06/26
Subject: Re: Find a home for a Family Puli who has Bitten
In article <0dN55.1860$***@bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
.
That was intelligent. See where it led all of you?
What a sarcastic, snide useless comment. If Sid would have
know the consequences then he would have obviously behaved
differently.

--Marshall

Marshall Lev Dermer/ Department of Psychology/ University of
Wisconsin-Milwaukee/ Milwaukee, WI 53201/ ***@uwm.edu
http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer

"Knowing how things work is the basis for appreciation,
and is thus a source of civilized delight." -- William Safire


From: "Stone" <***@y.com>
Date: 2000/06/26
Subject: Re: Find a home for a Family Puli who has Bitten

TO: Marshall Dermer

Thanks for the support.. This is my 4th dog.. all have
been wonderful and given great input to our lives.

Regarding Elaines comment, in response and just as an FYI.

The "Other" person bitten was a professional dog breeder...
We were having them keep our dog for 10 days to review his
increasing dominance problem... and maybe even find a new
home for him.

He bit the breeder and this was the first time he ever bit
anyone..ever.

This was 1 year ago and we blamed the situation then.. not
our dog. He was with strangers, with new rules... etc etc...

The next biting was me... and even then he felt 'provoked'
in in his own doglike analysis. I just need to find a way
to make him "see the light" of correct behavior.

Thanks Marshall for the defense and Elaine for your time.....

Sid

From: "Jerry Howe" <***@cfl.rr.com>
Date: 2000/06/27
Subject: Re: Find a home for a Family Puli who has Bitten

'mornin lyingdoc dermer,

For the record, I call you lyingdoc because you are a proven liar and
defender of dog abuse.
TO: Marshall Dermer
Thanks for the support.. This is my 4th dog.. all have been
wonderful and given great input to our lives.
Thanks Sid. I am not a dog expert but an associate professor of
psychology who does research in the areas of basic and applied
behavior analysis and teaches the same.
In fact, our lyingdoc doesn't know much about dogs at all, and relies
on punishment and will not hesitate to hang a dog to rehabilitate
him, as taught in the Koehler method.
1. If you can identify the environmental events that produce
your dog's rare aggression then you can, in part, control
the aggression by not producing those stimuli.
That would be any punishment or confrontation, in this dog's case...
Confrontation is something I teach AVOIDANCE of at all
costs...because the result is often aggression and the death of the
dog.
If your dog has behaved aggressively when you have attemted
to remove him from your bed, don't let him even get on your
bed. Try keeping the bedroom door closed or crate your dog
before you retire.
Avoiding the problem is not training or rehabilitating.
2. You can condition behavior that will allow you to better
control your dog.
Indeed???
Suppose your dog refuses to go into the crate.
Who mentioned crate?
Then withhold a portion of his daily ration and put it in a bowl
at the
back of the crate (along with some water) then when he
enters the crate close the door.
So, we're going to bribe the dog to kennel? Is that what you consider
strong leadership?
If you say "crate" each time before you do this, you will likely
have a
dog who enters the crate on command.
Possibly. But not likely...dog's aren't as small minded and greedy as
university professors are... This dog isn't going to play ball with
him, that's why he's asking for help...
Now with the dog strongly disposed to enter the crate on command,
it may leave your bed for the crate on command.
Probably not. That's why the man is writing for help. This dog isn't
going to leave HIS bed.
(I assume the crate would be in your bedroom.)
No, I think the crate is something you introduced in that Rube
Goldberg like mind of yours...
Suppose you want your dog to leave the bedroom.
I'd say "go in the other room, good boy," and the dog will do it.
It's as fast and easy to train as the come command. (Hey lyingdoc,
here's a question you can answer: does the comma go before or after
the quote marks?)
This too is a behavior that might at some future date avoid a
confrontation. You could clicker train your dog to leave the
bedroom.

I suppose you could. That would take another lengthy, R.G. like
procedure, I'm sure.
How? Wait until your dog makes any move toward the door
then click and throw a treat. Keep this up but each
time wait until your dog gets closer to the door and
eventually exits. When your dog is reliably doing
this, then introduce the command "out." Keep up the
dense reinforcement of clicking and treating and only
thin in out as your dog reliably follows the command.
Practice this over and over at various times during the
day with the dog in various places in the bedroom. In
this way the dog will be strongly disposed to follow
this command whenever it is issued in the bedroom.
Thanks, but no thanks, lyingdoc. I'll stick with the fast method as
taught in the Wits' End Dog Training Method manual, (the one you said
wasn't a complete method) where we teach the command as a conditioned
reflex.
There is an approach labeled "Nothing In Life Is For
Free." Here you have your dog work for everything. When
you feed him ask him to sit before you porvide the
food. Likewise when it is time for a walk, etc. If your
dog understands many commands then issue a command
before your allow your dog access to a reinforcing
activity. Hey, if it understands "out" when the command
is issued in the bedroom then start practicing it in
other rooms though you might have to first re-train it
with the click and treat method in these novel areas.
I don't see bribing the dog as particularly likely to increase his
esteem for you... this is a dog, not one of your college kids looking
for a grade...
Now why might the method in the paragraph above help
control a very dominant dog?
Because it's YOUR only alternative to hanging the dog to rehabilitate
him, as taught in the Koehler method you ENDORSE...
Basically, because the history of reinforcing compliance with all
kinds of commands in all kinds of situations disposes the dog to
do likewise in the future.
RIGHT. That's why I teach appropriate control based on leadership and
demonstrated self control...
Now, if your dog does not obey a command don't raise
your voice or use punishment, but look for the
environmental events that might be controlling behavior
(see below).
When my dog refuses a command, it's time to review the Family
Leadership Exercise and the come and go commands as conditioned
reflex... That way, there is never any question about control, and we
don't fight over issues of ''control'' that are usually only in the
tiny R.G. like thinking of the self concious inferiority complex
mind.
I hope this is helpful Sid and please note how I faced
a generalization problem below.
Sincerely,
Marshall
Marshall Lev Dermer/ Department of Psychology/ University of
http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer
"Knowing how things work is the basis for appreciation,
and is thus a source of civilized delight." -- William
Safire

We'll skip the neat little tricks you've ''taught'' your dog.
(Sid, below is the generalization problem.)
The next day, while I was standing, I asked Max to "wipe"
in another carpeted room, but he did not. So, I decided to
recreate, in this other carpeted room, some of the stimuli
that were present in the original training room.
This is the first time you've noticed that you're supposed to repeat
behaviors in different environments to generalize the idea? That's
first lesson work in the WEDTM manual.
In particular, I POSITIONED MYSELF ON THE FLOOR IN THE WAY
THAT I HAD BEEN POSITIONED, RELATIVE TO MAX, THE
PREVIOUS DAY DURING TRAINING.
You mean the scientific method, huh doc?
I then said, "wipe" and presto: Max wiped his feet
followed by my clicking and treating.
SHAAAZZZAAAMMM!!! Boy, you're smart, doc.
I then gradually stood up while asking Max to wipe, and I
click and treated as usual.
Mazzel tov.
Next, I brought Max to the kitchen where there is a small
carpet before the sink and asked him to wipe. He did and I
clicked and treated!
A bissel mazzel!
Then I brought him to the front door and asked him to wipe. He
moved to the mat/carpet there, and wiped! That evening, he did
much the same after his walk in the dirty snow!
Would we expect antything less? That's why I teach come and go in the
first lesson... By the time we're done generalizing the first lesson
work the dog will always do as we ask. Takes less than an hour.
I'm very proud of my little guy and I am also proud of the
applied behavior analytic procedures I have used.
Bribery. That's what I'd expect from you, because you don't have any
more effective methods, except punishment. Of course, you only punish
the behaivors, not the dog... but Koehler does have a remedy for this
dog's behavior, doesn't he, lyingdoc dermer? Perhaps we'll discuss
that in your next post.
These procedures have been used with various species to
conditioned all kinds of behaviors. Most recently, they
have transformed the lives of a great many autistic
children who otherwise would have been institutionalized.
Truly amazing. Dog trainers have been using those methods for
decades, and you and your pals are just getting around to applying
some of those techniques to kids... HOWE many years did you bums
procrastinate on that??? Twenty five, maybe thirty or more years
wasted using shock therapy and force?
In behaviorism, we use a pragmatic criterion of truth.
No, lyingdoc. That's why you've earned the lying Title.
We say that something is true to the extent it permits
effective action.
HOWE about that? You mean if a method is repeatable, it's
''scientific''??? Is that so??? HOWE about that???
Using this criterion we cannot say that something is absolutely
true, for there may be situations in which a procedure has not
been tested and would fail.
Which would point to a fault in the ''experimenter,'' or a variation
that broke the consistancy of the method, like you found out when you
failed to repeat the behavior because you changed your position, thus
violating the consistancy necessary to continue the scientific
method...

That's ALL in the first lesson work of the Wits' End Dog Training
Method manual available for free at http://www.doggydoright.com ,
without the malarky and ''scientific'' double talk...
But it is quite clear that behavior analytic procedures
have considerable generality across species, organisms,
and responses.
Right. So why do you RELY on force, punishment, and food bribes???

Here's a very telling commentary on your sig file giving tribute to
--Marshall
I have read rpdb for over two years.
Yes, you've led some of the arguments defending force, punishment,
hurting dogs, and deriding non force methods. You criticize my
methods without reading any further than my condemnation of the
universities for the sorry state of the art of behaviorism as it
exists today in dog training.

You've recently endorsed the koehler method. In order to endorse the
koehler method, you must be prepared to hang dogs who object to
the incrementally increasing force, violence, and intimidation.
Koehler justifies hurting dogs for willfully disobeying commands as a
direct affront to the trainers AUTHORITY.

Isn't aggression a predictable response to jerking and choking and
shocking and twisting and pinching ears, toes, and testicles, and
beating dogs with sticks to MOTIVATE THEM?

Don'cha thaink?
Consequently, I urge newbies to attend to the civil and rational
posts of the rpdb regulars from whom I have learned much.
This is going to hurt a little bit, doc. Brace yourself. It'll be all
over in about two minutes. Just relax.
They include: Amy Dahl,
Oh yes, we were just mentioning some of her methods, weren't we...
She likes to beat Retriever dogs with sticks to motivate them to WANT
to retrieve. She pinches ears, not twists them, NO mention of
twisting and pinching of toes or testicles, and she shocks and chin
cuffs, NOT SLAPS, retriever dogs, to teach them to retrieve... NICE
stuff, huh?
Diane Blackman,
Yes, diane... She's as confused and deceitful as they come. She knits
cover-ups for pronged choke collars so she can train dogs illegally
on akc showgrounds, and so that people won't SEE the prongs and
think the less of her... She twists words better than you can,
BECAUSE SHE HASN'T GOT BAGGED FOR LYING, LIKE YOU DID.

She's got a dog who's been a chronic puller for five years, and she
day boards her dogs because she can't trust them at home alone.
Her links page has lots of lousy advice, but diane won't edit the
lousy ones that teach HURTING dogs, because she says she doesn't
know enough about training to discern good from bad information...
Whaddaya thaink of that?
Janet Boss,
Jerks dogs around on pronged collars to make them friendly. She's
as incompetent a creature as G-D could possibly create. I'll be
throwing THAT in HIS face when I get there... She has no business
telling people to kill their dogs because their only option is to
jerk the dog around and keep him confined for the rest of his life.
See the thread ''interested in hearing'' and you'll see for yourself
HOWE you bums mishandle and kill dogs because you don't have any
IDEAS and can't outwit a puppydog...
Susan Fraser,
susan twists and pinches ears and toes and shocks and chokes dogs
on pronged choke collars. But she doesn't hurt them.
Avrama Gingold,
Our Professora... She got her damned teeth knocked down her throat
when her dog finally figured out HOWE to hurt her back, and make it
look like an accident. That's called allelomimetic behavior. avrama
had a habit of jerking him to make him heel or come, but always
made it look like the dog did it to himself. Dogs are smart. Don't
take my word for it, that's in the Wits' End Dog Training Method
manual.
Lynn Kosmakos,
Our pathological liar? She jerks and chokes and hangs dogs
according to the koehler method. She justifies force because there
are so many dogs to HELP and such little time to HELP them all, at
the shelter she kills dogs at.
Bob Maida,
What advice? "Don't let him do that?" Killfiles is all he writes
about. He can't talk dog training because he is a violent dog
trainer. If he opens his yap, I shove his foot in it for him and
hammer on top of his head till he's craping toenails... He's no dog
trainer. He said he recommends cindymoron's Website to his
''students'' and they tell him HOWE much they've benefited from it...
cindymron's site has instructions for sticking your fingers down
puppies throats to choke them out of mouthing, kneeing the dog in
the chest, shocking, throwing the dog down by his ears and climbing
on him like a wild animal, pinching and twisting ears, choking,
jerking, and sticking dog's heads under water you've filled into a
hole he's dug to break dogs of digging.

I guess boob's student's only learned the jerking and choking from
him...

Your pal boob had been begging his ''teacher'' cap'n fagarty to
debate me here, and smarten me up. He sent his little girl to write
me a threatening letter saying she'd sue me if I told the truth
here...

Then, your pal boob suggested there would be a motorcycle gang
paying me a little visit... Do you ride, lyindoc? I may be able to
get you a good deal on some dead bikers machines.
Cindy Tittle Moore,
A true sadist. She gets pleasure for dominating and hurting dogs.
Read her forced fetch page, that will show you HOWE excited she
gets just at the thought of hurting dogs.

Did you see my STAY-OUT-OF-JAIL CHALLENGE to cindymoron?

Here's the deal... We get her to force fetch train three dogs in
front of a child's playground, and I'll train three protection dogs
in the same site, and we'll see who the children are disturbed by,
and who the parents are going to call the cops on... And then I'll
show up as expert witness for the prosecution, and we'll demonstrate
her forced fetch in front of a criminal judge and jury... HOWE'S that
for a FAIR TEST???
Denna Pace,
Says she sees a lot of value in koehler... She's got PLENTY of
problems with her own dogs running away and being disobedient.
Marily Rammell,
what the hell is she doing in this lineup of Thugs?
John Richardson,
He only hurts dogs to save them from the needle. He's as abusive
and immature as they come. He's a clone of dogman. The dogs he
can't hurt into being friendly, he KILLS in the shelter he HELPS in.
Unlike yourself, he's too stupid to be evil. He's just doing what
koehler taught him.
Ludwig Smith,
Another koehler trainer. He's too cowardly to come out and say what
he believes. He throws around lots of non advice, and then tells us
we can get more help in koehler's books. He's got a link to
cindymoron's page on his sig file...
and Terri Willis.
The psycho clown. She wants to hurt dogs because she is
compensating for her inferiority complex. She WANTS TO HURT
DOGS.

NEXT POST, we'll talk about YOU, lyindoc dermer. Let's figure out
why your dog masturbates on the pillows. Could it be allelomimetic
behavior? Bye!

Your pal, Jerry.
Marshall Lev Dermer/ Department of Psychology/ University of
http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer
"Thus we should beware of clinging to vulgar opinions, and
judge things by reason's way, not by popular say." Montaigne

"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent." Salvor Hardin

"If you cannot convince them, confuse them." H.S. Truman.

;~) DRAINING THE SWAMP, AND RELOCATING THE GATORS... J>>>

"CUSTOM WILL RECONCILE PEOPLE TO ANY ATROCITY." G.B. Shaw.

"I know that most men, including those at ease with problems
of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the
simplest and most obvious truth if it would oblige them to
admit the falsity of conclusions which they have delighted in
explaining to colleagues, proudly taught to others, and which
they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their
lives."
Leo Tolstoy

Is it any wonder that the following sig file has generated more
complaints to my personal email than any other controversial
post I have made to date, bar none?:

caveat
If you have to do things to your dog to train him, that you would
rather not have to do, then you shouldn't be doing them. If you
have a dog trainer that tells you to jerk your dog around, choke
him, pinch his ears, or twist his toes, shock, shake, slap, scold,
hit, or punish him in any manner, that corrections are
appropriate, that the dog won't think of you as the punisher,
or that corrections are not harmful, or if they can't train your
dog to do what you want, look for a trainer that knows Howe.

Sincerely,
Jerry Howe,
Wits' End Dog Training
***@aol.com
http://www.doggydoright.com
Nature, to be mastered, must be obeyed.
-Francis Bacon-

There are terrible people who, instead of solving a problem,
bungle it and make it more difficult for all who come after. Who
ever can't hit the nail on the head should, please, not hit at all.
-Nietzsche-

The abilities to think, rationalize and solve problems are learned
qualities.

The Wits' End Dog Training Method challenges the learning
centers in the dogs brain. These centers, once challenged,
develop and continue to grow exponentially, to make him smarter.

The Wits' End Dog Training method capitalizes on praising split
seconds of canine thought, strategy, and timing, not mindless
hours of forced repetition, constant corrections, and scolding.
-Jerry Howe-


From: "Jerry Howe" <***@cfl.rr.com>
Date: 2000/06/27
Subject: Re: Find a home for a Family Puli who has Bitten

'mornin lyingdoc dermer,

For the record, I call you lyingdoc because you are
a proven liar and defender of dog abuse.
TO: Marshall Dermer
Thanks for the support.. This is my 4th dog.. all
have been wonderful and given great input to our lives.
Thanks Sid. I am not a dog expert but an associate professor of
psychology who does research in the areas of basic and applied
behavior analysis and teaches the same.
In fact, our lyingdoc doesn't know much about dogs at all
and relies on punishment and will not hesitate to hang a
dog to rehabilitate him, as taught in the Koehler method.
1. If you can identify the environmental events that produce
your dog's rare aggression then you can, in part, control
the aggression by not producing those stimuli.
That would be any punishment or confrontation, in this
dog's case... professor SCRUFF SHAKE "ALMOST ALWAYS TRIES
to use positive methods".

Confrontation is something I teach AVOIDANCE of at all
costs...because the result is often aggression and the
death of the dog.
If your dog has behaved aggressively when you have attemted
to remove him from your bed, don't let him even get on your
bed. Try keeping the bedroom door closed or crate your dog
before you retire.
Avoiding the problem is not training or rehabilitating.
2. You can condition behavior that will allow you to better
control your dog.
Indeed???
Suppose your dog refuses to go into the crate.
Who mentioned crate?
Then withhold a portion of his daily ration and put
it in a bowl at the back of the crate (along with
some water) then when he enters the crate close the door.
So, we're going to bribe the dog to kennel? Is that what
you consider strong leadership?
If you say "crate" each time before you do this, you
will likely have a dog who enters the crate on command.
Possibly. But not likely...dog's aren't as small minded
and greedy as university professors are... This dog isn't
going to play ball with him, that's why he's asking for help...
Now with the dog strongly disposed to enter the crate on
command, it may leave your bed for the crate on command.
Probably not. That's why the man is writing for help. This dog isn't
going to leave HIS bed.
(I assume the crate would be in your bedroom.)
No, I think the crate is something you introduced in that Rube
Goldberg like mind of yours...
Suppose you want your dog to leave the bedroom.
I'd say "go in the other room, good boy," and the dog will do it.
It's as fast and easy to train as the come command. (Hey lyingdoc,
here's a question you can answer: does the comma go before or after
the quote marks?)
This too is a behavior that might at some future date avoid a
confrontation. You could clicker train your dog to leave the
bedroom.

I suppose you could. That would take another lengthy, R.G. like
procedure, I'm sure.
How? Wait until your dog makes any move toward the door
then click and throw a treat. Keep this up but each
time wait until your dog gets closer to the door and
eventually exits. When your dog is reliably doing
this, then introduce the command "out." Keep up the
dense reinforcement of clicking and treating and only
thin in out as your dog reliably follows the command.
Practice this over and over at various times during the
day with the dog in various places in the bedroom. In
this way the dog will be strongly disposed to follow
this command whenever it is issued in the bedroom.
Thanks, but no thanks, lyingdoc. I'll stick with the fast method as
taught in the Wits' End Dog Training Method manual, (the one you said
wasn't a complete method) where we teach the command as a conditioned
reflex.
There is an approach labeled "Nothing In Life Is For
Free." Here you have your dog work for everything. When
you feed him ask him to sit before you porvide the
food. Likewise when it is time for a walk, etc. If your
dog understands many commands then issue a command
before your allow your dog access to a reinforcing
activity. Hey, if it understands "out" when the command
is issued in the bedroom then start practicing it in
other rooms though you might have to first re-train it
with the click and treat method in these novel areas.
I don't see bribing the dog as particularly likely to increase his
esteem for you... this is a dog, not one of your college kids looking
for a grade...
Now why might the method in the paragraph above help
control a very dominant dog?
Because it's YOUR only alternative to hanging the dog to rehabilitate
him, as taught in the Koehler method you ENDORSE...
Basically, because the history of reinforcing compliance with all
kinds of commands in all kinds of situations disposes the dog to
do likewise in the future.
RIGHT. That's why I teach appropriate control based on leadership and
demonstrated self control...
Now, if your dog does not obey a command don't raise
your voice or use punishment, but look for the
environmental events that might be controlling behavior
(see below).
When my dog refuses a command, it's time to review the Family
Leadership Exercise and the come and go commands as conditioned
reflex... That way, there is never any question about control, and we
don't fight over issues of ''control'' that are usually only in the
tiny R.G. like thinking of the self concious inferiority complex
mind.
I hope this is helpful Sid and please note how I faced
a generalization problem below.
Sincerely,
Marshall
Marshall Lev Dermer/ Department of Psychology/ University of
http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer
"Knowing how things work is the basis for appreciation,
and is thus a source of civilized delight." -- William
Safire

We'll skip the neat little tricks you've ''taught'' your dog.
(Sid, below is the generalization problem.)
The next day, while I was standing, I asked Max to "wipe"
in another carpeted room, but he did not. So, I decided to
recreate, in this other carpeted room, some of the stimuli
that were present in the original training room.
This is the first time you've noticed that you're supposed to repeat
behaviors in different environments to generalize the idea? That's
first lesson work in the WEDTM manual.
In particular, I POSITIONED MYSELF ON THE FLOOR IN THE WAY
THAT I HAD BEEN POSITIONED, RELATIVE TO MAX, THE
PREVIOUS DAY DURING TRAINING.
You mean the scientific method, huh doc?
. I then said, "wipe" and presto: Max wiped his feet followed by my
clicking and treating.
SHAAAZZZAAAMMM!!! Boy, you're smart, doc.
I then gradually stood up while asking Max to wipe, and I
click and treated as usual.
Mazzel tov.
Next, I brought Max to the kitchen where there is a small
carpet before the sink and asked him to wipe. He did and I
clicked and treated!
A bissel mazzel!
Then I brought him to the front door and asked him to wipe. He
moved to the mat/carpet there, and wiped! That evening, he did
much the same after his walk in the dirty snow!
Would we expect antything less? That's why I teach come and go in the
first lesson... By the time we're done generalizing the first lesson
work the dog will always do as we ask. Takes less than an hour.
I'm very proud of my little guy and I am also proud of the
applied behavior analytic procedures I have used.
Bribery. That's what I'd expect from you, because you don't have any
more effective methods, except punishment. Of course, you only punish
the behaivors, not the dog... but Koehler does have a remedy for this
dog's behavior, doesn't he, lyingdoc dermer? Perhaps we'll discuss
that in your next post.
These procedures have been used with various species to
conditioned all kinds of behaviors. Most recently, they
have transformed the lives of a great many autistic
children who otherwise would have been institutionalized.
Truly amazing. Dog trainers have been using those methods for
decades, and you and your pals are just getting around to applying
some of those techniques to kids... HOWE many years did you bums
procrastinate on that??? Twenty five, maybe thirty or more years
wasted using shock therapy and force?
In behaviorism, we use a pragmatic criterion of truth.
No, lyingdoc. That's why you've earned the lying Title.
We say that something is true to the extent it permits
effective action.
HOWE about that? You mean if a method is repeatable, it's
''scientific''??? Is that so??? HOWE about that???
Using this criterion we cannot say that something is absolutely
true,
for there may be situations in which a procedure has not been
tested
and would fail.
Which would point to a fault in the ''experimenter,'' or a variation
that broke the consistancy of the method, like you found out when you
failed to repeat the behavior because you changed your position, thus
violating the consistancy necessary to continue the scientific
method...

That's ALL in the first lesson work of the Wits' End Dog Training
Method manual available for free at http://www.doggydoright.com ,
without the malarky and ''scientific'' double talk...
But it is quite clear that behavior analytic procedures
have considerable generality across species, organisms,
and responses.
Right. So why do you RELY on force, punishment, and food bribes???

Here's a very telling commentary on your sig file giving tribute to
--Marshall
I have read rpdb for over two years.
Yes, you've led some of the arguments defending force, punishment,
hurting dogs, and deriding non force methods. You criticize my
methods without reading any further than my condemnation of the
universities for the sorry state of the art of behaviorism as it
exists today in dog training.

You've recently endorsed the koehler method. In order to endorse the
koehler method, you must be prepared to hang dogs who object to
the incrementally increasing force, violence, and intimidation.
Koehler justifies hurting dogs for willfully disobeying commands as a
direct affront to the trainers AUTHORITY.

Isn't aggression a predictable response to jerking and choking and
shocking and twisting and pinching ears, toes, and testicles, and
beating dogs with sticks to MOTIVATE THEM?

Don'cha thaink?
Consequently, I urge newbies to attend to the civil and rational
posts of the rpdb regulars from whom I have learned much.
This is going to hurt a little bit, doc. Brace yourself. It'll be all
over in about two minutes. Just relax.
They include: Amy Dahl,
Oh yes, we were just mentioning some of her methods, weren't we...
She likes to beat Retriever dogs with sticks to motivate them to WANT
to retrieve. She pinches ears, not twists them, NO mention of
twisting and pinching of toes or testicles, and she shocks and chin
cuffs, NOT SLAPS, retriever dogs, to teach them to retrieve... NICE
stuff, huh?
Diane Blackman,
Yes, diane... She's as confused and deceitful as they come. She knits
cover-ups for pronged choke collars so she can train dogs illegally
on akc showgrounds, and so that people won't SEE the prongs and
think the less of her... She twists words better than you can,
BECAUSE SHE HASN'T GOT BAGGED FOR LYING, LIKE YOU DID.

She's got a dog who's been a chronic puller for five years, and she
day boards her dogs because she can't trust them at home alone.
Her links page has lots of lousy advice, but diane won't edit the
lousy ones that teach HURTING dogs, because she says she doesn't
know enough about training to discern good from bad information...
Whaddaya thaink of that?
Janet Boss,
Jerks dogs around on pronged collars to make them friendly. She's
as incompetent a creature as G-D could possibly create. I'll be
throwing THAT in HIS face when I get there... She has no business
telling people to kill their dogs because their only option is to
jerk the dog around and keep him confined for the rest of his life.
See the thread ''interested in hearing'' and you'll see for yourself
HOWE you bums mishandle and kill dogs because you don't have any
IDEAS and can't outwit a puppydog...
Susan Fraser,
susan twists and pinches ears and toes and shocks and chokes dogs
on pronged choke collars. But she doesn't hurt them.
Avrama Gingold,
Our Professora... She got her damned teeth knocked down her throat
when her dog finally figured out HOWE to hurt her back, and make it
look like an accident. That's called allelomimetic behavior. avrama
had a habit of jerking him to make him heel or come, but always
made it look like the dog did it to himself. Dogs are smart. Don't
take my word for it, that's in the Wits' End Dog Training Method
manual.
Lynn Kosmakos,
Our pathological liar? She jerks and chokes and hangs dogs
according to the koehler method. She justifies force because there
are so many dogs to HELP and such little time to HELP them all, at
the shelter she kills dogs at.
Bob Maida,
What advice? "Don't let him do that?" Killfiles is all he writes
about. He can't talk dog training because he is a violent dog
trainer. If he opens his yap, I shove his foot in it for him and
hammer on top of his head till he's craping toenails... He's no dog
trainer. He said he recommends cindymoron's Website to his
''students'' and they tell him HOWE much they've benefited from it...
cindymron's site has instructions for sticking your fingers down
puppies throats to choke them out of mouthing, kneeing the dog in
the chest, shocking, throwing the dog down by his ears and climbing
on him like a wild animal, pinching and twisting ears, choking,
jerking, and sticking dog's heads under water you've filled into a
hole he's dug to break dogs of digging.

I guess boob's student's only learned the jerking and choking from
him...

Your pal boob had been begging his ''teacher'' cap'n fagarty to
debate me here, and smarten me up. He sent his little girl to write
me a threatening letter saying she'd sue me if I told the truth
here...

Then, your pal boob suggested there would be a motorcycle gang
paying me a little visit... Do you ride, lyindoc? I may be able to
get you a good deal on some dead bikers machines.
Cindy Tittle Moore,
A true sadist. She gets pleasure for dominating and hurting dogs.
Read her forced fetch page, that will show you HOWE excited she
gets just at the thought of hurting dogs.

Did you see my STAY-OUT-OF-JAIL CHALLENGE to cindymoron?

Here's the deal... We get her to force fetch train three dogs in
front of a child's playground, and I'll train three protection dogs
in the same site, and we'll see who the children are disturbed by,
and
who the parents are going to call the cops on... And then I'll show
ups
as expert witness for the prosecution, and we'll demonstrate her
forced
fetch in front of a criminal judge and jury... HOWE'S that for a FAIR
TEST???
Denna Pace,
Says she sees a lot of value in koehler... She's got PLENTY of
problems with her own dogs running away and being disobedient.
Marily Rammell,
what the hell is she doing in this lineup of Thugs?
John Richardson,
He only hurts dogs to save them from the needle. He's as abusive
and immature as they come. He's a clone of dogman. The dogs he
can't hurt into being friendly, he KILLS in the shelter he HELPS in.
Unlike yourself, he's too stupid to be evil. He's just doing what
koehler taught him.
Ludwig Smith,
Another koehler trainer. He's too cowardly to come out and say what
he believes. He throws around lots of non advice, and then tells us
we can get more help in koehler's books. He's got a link to
cindymoron's page on his sig file...
and Terri Willis.
The psycho clown. She wants to hurt dogs because she is
compensating for her inferiority complex. She WANTS TO HURT
DOGS.

NEXT POST, we'll talk about YOU, lyindoc dermer. Let's figure out
why your dog masturbates on the pillows. Could it be allelomimetic
behavior? Bye!

Your pal, Jerry.
Marshall Lev Dermer/ Department of Psychology/ University of
http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer
"Thus we should beware of clinging to vulgar opinions, and
judge things by reason's way, not by popular say." Montaigne

"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent." Salvor Hardin

"If you cannot convince them, confuse them." H.S. Truman.

;~) DRAINING THE SWAMP, AND RELOCATING THE GATORS... J>>>

"CUSTOM WILL RECONCILE PEOPLE TO ANY ATROCITY." G.B. Shaw.

"I know that most men, including those at ease with problems
of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the
simplest and most obvious truth if it would oblige them to
admit the falsity of conclusions which they have delighted in
explaining to colleagues, proudly taught to others, and which
they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their
lives."
Leo Tolstoy

Is it any wonder that the following sig file has generated more
complaints to my personal email than any other controversial
post I have made to date, bar none?:

caveat
If you have to do things to your dog to train him, that you would
rather not have to do, then you shouldn't be doing them. If you
have a dog trainer that tells you to jerk your dog around, choke
him, pinch his ears, or twist his toes, shock, shake, slap, scold,
hit, or punish him in any manner, that corrections are
appropriate, that the dog won't think of you as the punisher,
or that corrections are not harmful, or if they can't train your
dog to do what you want, look for a trainer that knows Howe.

Sincerely,
Jerry Howe,
Wits' End Dog Training
***@aol.com
http://www.doggydoright.com
Nature, to be mastered, must be obeyed.
-Francis Bacon-

There are terrible people who, instead of solving a problem,
bungle it and make it more difficult for all who come after. Who
ever can't hit the nail on the head should, please, not hit at all.
-Nietzsche-

The abilities to think, rationalize and solve problems are learned
qualities.

The Wits' End Dog Training Method challenges the learning
centers in the dogs brain. These centers, once challenged,
develop and continue to grow exponentially, to make him smarter.

The Wits' End Dog Training method capitalizes on praising split
seconds of canine thought, strategy, and timing, not mindless
hours of forced repetition, constant corrections, and scolding.
-Jerry Howe-
Y***@InBox.Com
2005-07-31 19:01:01 UTC
Permalink
HOWEDY sinofabitch,
Have you put it on your neck? I had the impression
that people test it on their arm or thigh. Not
exactly the same thing, in my inexpert opinion.
We're DONE talkin abHOWET HURTIN dogs as it AIN'T
NECESSARY if you know HOWE to TRAIN them.
Inexpert opinion is right.
Seems Lucy don't know HOWE to HURT dogs pupperly.
First, since the e-collar works by stimulating the
muscles, it really doesn't matter where you test the
collar, as long you get a good contact - the effect
is the same.
That's nice.
Is it kinda like attacking and throwin the dog to
the grHOWEND and grHOWELIN into ITS throat and
What I have said- repeatedly - is that he took
posts from two different people,
took pieces of them out of context,
cobbled them together,
"Neatly," and "Smartly."
and a fake signature.
"sinofabitch" instead of sionnach.
Which is exactly what he did.
The actual quote is misleading when
taken out of context, and Jerry's
faked "quote" is downright meaningless.
Here's Jerry's version
"I Dropped The Leash, Threw My
Right Arm Over The Lab's Shoulder,
Grabbed Her Opposite Foot With My
Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into
Her Throat And Said "GRRRR!" And
Neatly Nipped Her Ear," sinofabitch.
Here's yours;
"I dropped the leash, threw my
right arm over the Lab's shoulder,
grabbed her opposite foot with my
left hand, rolled her on her side,
leaned on her, said "GRRRR!" and
nipped her ear.
--Sara Sionnach
BWAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!!!

That's INSANE. Ain't it.

"When you get bagged for lying you're MARKED
FOR LIFE," The Puppy Wizard's DADDY.

BWEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!
If I wanted to show someone the force of a finger-
tap needed to get my attention, it wouldn't make any
difference whether I tapped the muscle of the neck,
shoulder, or arm - the sensation would be the same.
Well seems you don't know much abHOWET PRESSURE POINTS.
Second, you seem to be under the misunderstanding
that the collar has to be actually fastened around
something to work. Not so - all you have to do is
have both prongs making contact. It would actually
have been impossible to put Rocsi's collar around
my neck, since she's a 14-lb Jack Russell with a
small neck.
I have, however, used an e-collar to relieve tight
muscles in my neck - it's way cheaper than paying my
PT to use a TENS machine. <G>
Last but not least, most people I know who USE
collars (not just want to know what they feel
like), and test before each use, do it by pressing
a finger on each contact point, simply because it's
the quickest and easiest way.
But if you're testing it on your neck, it's different,
Wrong.
though the fact still remains that *you* do know
what to expect, while the dog does not.
If by that you mean I know when I'm going to press
the button, you're correct, but it's a pointless statement.
Try this you MENTAL CASE:

HOWEDY Master Of Deception blankman,

From: ***@dog-play.com
Date: 1999/06/27
Subject: Re: No no at all

The Master <***@my-deja.com> wrote:

: If you could get the same result--stopping an unwanted behavior--by
: laughing or by praising the dog, both of which are non-adversarial,
: non-confrontational, and which only stimulate positive social
feelings
: in the dog, what would be your reason for continuing to say "no"?

HOWER DOG LOVERS FEAR NOT BEING "IN CON-TROLL"

HOWER DOG LOVERS FEAR NOT HAVIN A SENSE OF P-HOWER.

HOWER DOG LOVERS FEAR NOT HAVING THE RIGHT TO HURT
INTIMIDATE and MURDER INNOCENT DUMB CRITTERS AS THEY
BEEN DOING FOR DECADES and LYING abHOWET IT <{); ~ ) >

: If your answer is that the dog needs to know that you're
: the pack leader or the alpha dog, then we cannot agree
: until the day you realize there is no such animal.
:
: When my dog picks up a chicken bone or a pizza crust off
: the New York side walk, all I have to do is say "Good boy!"
: and he immediately drops it and wags his tail. In fact lately,
: he's taken to sniffing such forbidden food objects, looking up
: at me, and moving on.
Uh, what do you say if the dog IS allowed to have it?
You tell him "Take iT, GOOD BOY." OtherWIZE the dog
DON'T TAKE NUTHIN he ain't supposed to have <{); ~ ) >
Seems to me you have created "good boy" as a
conditioned secondary punisher - i.e.
Yeah, SEEMS SO. Don't it. PERHAPS you'd PREFER
to rely on your PRONGED SPIKED PINCH CHOKE and
SHOCK collars and MURDERIN the dog Master Of
Deception blankman?
the purpose and effect is to get the
dog not to engagein that behavior.
Praise SEEMS to WORK better than CHOKIN the dog
like HOWE YOU PREFER Master Of Deception blankman.
This is not a problem, necessarily, assuming you
have a word or phrase that means "yes, you CAN
do that."
No. The dog CANNOT take STUFF off the GRHOWEND
unless he's been ASKED to take it and hand it
to his handler Master Of Deception blankman.
We do dropped food stuff a lot.
THAT'S on accHOWENT of you're a KLUTZ.
Sometimes I pick it up and no one gets it.
BWEEEEEEEEAHAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!
Sometimes the dogs have to wait and see if one
of the cats wants it. Sometimes the cat eats it
in which case the dogs get praised and sometimes
something else.
That's IRRELEVENT. Let's talk abHOWET trainin
a dog not to EAT POISON Master Of Deception
blankman. Let'ds talk abHOWET trainin a dog
not to EAT GARBAGE or SURF C-HOWENTERS Master
Of Deception blankman? YOU GOT NO METHOD.
Sometimes the cat leaves it in which case I may give
the dog permission to take it, or I may pick it up.
So what? There's NUTHING but FORCED CON-TROLL, no learnin there.
In order for this to work I have to
You have to BE THERE AND you HAVE TO BE IN CON-TROLL
otherWIZE the critters will FIGHT FOR IT.
have two conditions available, one that says "yes
you may" and the other that says "no you may not."
That's IRRELEVENT. Let'st talk abHOWET HOWE you
train your dog to not pick sumpthin up from the
grHOWEND and GET POISONED like stan the man's
dog done or swallow filthy undies like HOWE janet
boss's dog done or swallowed the squeaky toy and
took the bag of treats and attacked the handler
for bribing and INTIMDIATING and trying to TRADE
with IT like HOWE matty done, eh Master Of Deception
blankman?
This happens when out walking as well.
Surprise surprise?
I regularly train in picnic rounds.
Your dog pulled you into a GARBABE CAN and
knocked it over. REMEMBER Master Of Deception
blankman?
Usually the dog will indicate by interest
They PULL towards whatever they smell, inludin VOMIT.
that they have found something tasty and wait.
That's ABSURED and you're a liar.
With Tanith I can't say I've ever caught her
snatching up a tasty bit without giving some
indication.
BWEEEEEEEEEAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!
The times I *thought* she had it has always been a
perfectly permissible stick that she is avidly gnawing.
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEHAHAHAHHAHAA!!!
Oso sometimes tries to swoop in casually and pretend he
has nothing. It does not take a harsh word to change his
mind, but I *do* communicate "no you may not" by my tone
of voice.
You mean when your dog is PRETENDING he DIDN'T
DO what HE JUST DONE that YOU SEZ HE DON'T DO
when he PRETENDS to be DOIN what he DON'T DO.
Sometimes I will inspect it
You mean CRAP that he picks up off the grHOWEND.
and return it,
Like a chicken breast? You think you're
gonna get your dogs to NOT TAKE and yet
GIVE IT UP when they DON'T DO what they
ARE TRAINED NOT TO DO any better that
you can TRAIN THEM NOT TO EAT KAT SHIT
or raid your C-HOWENTERS tables and
garbage bins?

Seems you can't EXXXTRAPOLATE on the facts.
sometimes I deprive him of it.
You mean, the STUFF off the grHOWEND they WANT
and WOULD SWALLOW if you wasn't standing there
ready to HURT and INTIMIDATE them somMOORE.

: Oh, I guess I have a third question: how do you
: explain that praise can stop an unwanted behavior
: as well as or better than saying "no"?

""Praise" in this sense is just terminology,"

BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

"just as the word "punishment" is just terminology."

No, Master Of Deception blankman. PUNISHMENT DERRANGES
BEHAVIORS. PUNISHMENT TEACHES FEAR and MISTRUST and
AGGRESSION.
There is no emotional value to either.
That's ABSURD.

"If both the purpose and the function of the stimulous
you provide to the dog is to deter unwanted behavior then
in technical terms it is "punishment." "

So, PUNISH YOUR DOGS WITH PRAISE and you'll
NEVER NEED to EVER tell them NO or JERK and
CHOKE and SHOCK THEM and LOCK THEM IN BOXES
and BRIBE INTMIDATE and withhold attention
affection and rewards on accHOWENT of you'll
ONLY NEED PRAISE as the EMOTIONAL VALUES you
CONDITIONED pupperly by DOIN EVERY THING EXXXACTLY
OPPOSITE of HOWE YOU DO IT Master Of Deception
blankman you dog abusing MENTAL CASE <{); ~ ) >
What works well to deter unwanted behavior
You mean REPRESS BAD BEHAVIORS.
depends upon both the person and the dog.
You mean there's no SCIENCE Of BEHAVIOR, Master
Of Deception blankman?
In this case "praise" is acting as both a conditioned
punisher (i.e. its purpose is to deter unwanted behavior
AND it has that effect) and also as a conditioned reinforcer
(the dog is positively reinforced for engaging in, usually,
a specific alternative behavior such as "come" even if the
command is not given.
AMAZIN, AIN'T IT Master Of Deception blankman.
How can that be?
It's on accHOWENT of YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKIN
abHOWET or you'd NEVER NEED to JERK CHOKE SHOCK BRIBE
CRATE INTIMIDATE MUTILATE withhold attentino affection
or so called rewards and MURDER dogs you ain't got the
INTELLECT to HOWEtwit <{); ~ ) >
Well if a motivator is fullfillment of the dog's objective
Like CONNECTING WITH HIS ALPHALPHA, Master Of Deception blankman?
"eat that thing"
That THING is MEANINGLESS to a CONNECTED dog,
Master Of Deception blankman <{); ~ ) >
and if the dog has discovered that "praise"
results in failure to attain that goal
of obtaining a meaningless piece of GARBAGE
over being CONNECTED to his ALPHALPHA?
then the natural consequence is for the dog to be
disuaded from continuing to offer the behavior once
the "praise" has been given. In this case "praise"
has been connected with negative punishment (i.e.
removal of a motivator).
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHAA!!!

That's PATHOLOGICAL thinkin Master Of Deception blankman.

BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHAHAHAHAHAHHAA!!!
I think it makes a lot of sense to suggest that in
general terms any stimulous that BOTH deters undesirable
behavior and encourages desireable behavior will, in general,
work more effectively that a stimulous that works in only one
regard.
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!
For example, if praise was given but the dog still
obtained its object then the praise would be ineffective
in detering the behavior. Praise will only work to stop
an unwanted behavior if it is combined with being unsuccessful
in achieving the object.
THAT'S INSANE.
Praise can work better than merely "no"
On accHOWENT of tellin a dog NO increases anXXXIHOWESNESS
and CREATES OPPOSITION and THAT'S HOWE COME you got to
HURT INTIMIDATE and MURDER innocent critters Master Of
Deception blankman. YOU DON'T KNOW HOWE TO TRAIN DOGS.
IF it is acting in a combined way,
ALL BEHAVIORS ARE THE SAME SAME.
that is not only to deter the unwanted behavior
"Detering" behaviors INCREASES DESIRE TO DO THEM.
but at the same instant to encourage or support desired behavior.
You're very CONfHOWENDED Master Of Deception blankman.
In lay terms "punishment" is often used
By ABUSERS Master Of Deception blankman. The Amazing
Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method
Manual Students REPORT gettin 100% TOTAL NON PHYSICAL
CON-TROLL by NOT DOIN NUTHIN YOU SEZ TO DO on accHOWENT
of IT MAKES DOGS ANXXXIHOWES and AFRAID and GETS THEM
DEATHLY ILL and DEAD.
as the equivalent of "retribution" that is it is meted
out to satisfy the emotions of the inflictor without any
attention to its actual effect,
HOWE ELSE could you POSSIBLY EXXXPLAIN HURTING a dog
for YOU NOT BEING ABLE TO TRAIN OR MOTIVATE IT to DO
a behavior you've TRAINED which IT REFUSED TO DO?

BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!

You're a dog abuser a liar and mental case.
and often without caring about its actual effect.
The ACTUAL EFFECT is FEARFUL HOWETA CON-TROLL DEATHLY ILL
AND DEAD DOGS like we got in your own POSTED CASE HISTORIES.
In behavior terms, however, "punishment" is specifically
ANYTHING that tends to reduce the offering of a behavior.
O.K. so PRAISE IS PUNISHMENT. BIG DEAL.

PUNISHEMENT doesn't NEED to HURT does it?
There is no value judgement placed on that behavior,
TO A DUMB CRITTER or INNOCENT CHILD?

THAT'S INSANE.

AIN'T IT.
nor is it necessary that the punishment be "inflicted" in anyway.
The THREAT is MOORE INTIMIDATING than the PAIN.
For example, suppose the dog starts to climb onto a box.
The box collapses under the dog sending the dog crashing
to the ground. IF the dog finds this to be "aversive" it
will be less likely to engage in this behavior in the future.
Unlike when you barricate IT away and prevent
IT from climing the dog will ALWAYS TRY to do
it when you ain't standing there to prevent or
intimidate IT.
The "punishment" was the crashing to the ground
and that it was self administered is irrelevant to
the accuracy of the terminology. It is also irrelevant
whether you see getting on the box as "good" "bad" or
indifferent.
Let's talk abHOWET stealin food from C-HOWENTERS or garbabe cans.

YOU AIN'T GOT NO METHOD to train a dog not to do that
or eat kat shit HOWETA the litter box unless you HIDE
IT in the SHOWER REMEMBER?
In general providing the dog with two pieces of information -
both what is acceptable (and will result in either pleasant
consequences or sessation of unpleasant consequences)
THAT'S HOWE COME DOGS GO INSANE.

JUST LIKE KIDS.
and what is not acceptable (and will result in
either unpleasant consequences or sessation of
pleasant consequences) is bound to be more
effective that providing the dog no informtion
about the consequence of an alternative behavior.
Like UNCONDITIONAL LOVE Master Of Deception blankman?

You're a dog abusing mental case and we got CASE
HISTORY DATA PROVING EVERY THING YOU SEZ IS DEAD
WRONG.
I agree with April,
LikeWIZE april, she's a PUPPY MILLER and shock collar user.
however, that there are times when you simply want
the dog to immediately STOP
So? IT'S IN THE MANUAL you MENTAL CASE. FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS.
and you specifically do NOT want a conditioned
alterntive behavior such as "come."
SO DON'T ASK FOR IT. FurtherMOORE, CITE WON dog
you know who DOES have a "CONDITIONED" COME COMMAND?
I've only had that occasion once, but I can assure
you that when my dog chased a cat across the street
Like HOWE YOU TRAINED IT by REPRESSION.
I emphatically did not want the alternative behavior
of "come". I do USUALLY want the conditioned response
to an unwanted behavior to be "come" but I also want
there to exist something else - and "NO!" works effectlevly
for this.
PERHAPS, if your INTERPERTTION of EVERY THING ELSE
was DEAD WRONG it MIGHT BE your METHOD of using NO
has TAUGHT YOUR DOG TO ATTACK THE KAT AND CROSS THE
STREET, thereby JUSTIFYING MOORE PAIN FEAR FORCE and
INTIMDIATION Master Of Deception blankman.

WE'VE PROVEN THAT ALREADY.

EVERY THING YOU'RE SAYIN IS A LIE TO DEFEND HURTING DOGS.
Naturally it also requires that to continue to
be effective it must be used extremely sparingly.
BWEHAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!

INSTEAD OF DESENSITIZING THE DOG BY PRASING HIM?
"Leave it" is the more general alternative
BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAAA!!!! IT'S THE SAME SAME.
which simply means change activities -
OR YOU'LL HURT HIM.
I don't care what else you choose but choose something else.
OR YOU'LL HURT HIM.
I like having the flexibility of not always
choosing the required alternative behavior.
THAT'S JUST LIKE HOWE IT SEZ in your FREE COPY
of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' ENd
Dog Training Method Manual, AIN'T IT Master Of
Deception blankman on accHOWENT of we DON'T WANT
TO FORCE CON-TROLL when we're teachin a dog to
MAKE HIS OWN CHOICES.

REMEMBER?

BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHAAA!!!

HOWE YOU GONNA DO THAT WITH 'NO' and "LEAVE IT?"

YOU'RE A LIAR A FRAUD A DOG ABUSER A COWARD AND MENTAL CASE.

Diane Blackman
***@dog-play.com http://www.dog-play.com/
- - - - - - - -
"Whether we choose ot use positive, negative, or a mix
of reinforcements, we must be sure that our buddy on the
other end of the leash can identify the specific behavior
for which he is being rewarded or corrected." "Smart Trainers -
- Brilliant Dogs" by Janet Lewis

You mean PUNISHED.
Dianne,
Praise is not punishment or, as you and other Skinnerites like to call
it, a "punisher". It is non-aversive, unless the dog has been
counter-conditioned. It works in the example I have cited because the
dog is looking to connect to the piece of food, and the praise makes him
feel connected to me. If I want him to drop something, I can say out,
drop it, leave it, or no, and he'll respond. If I want to tell him it's
okay to pick something up, I say okay or fine. My point in making this
post is that people don't understand no, and they don't understand
praise. Your reply, though a technically brilliant explication of the
Skinnerian party line, indicates that most behaviorists have an
incomplete grasp of canine behavior and training.
--
"NATURE IS NEVER WRONG"
--Rousseau
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
From: "MaliMore" <***@earthlink.nospam.net>
Date: 1999/06/28
Subject: Re: No no at all

I haven't read this complete thread.......but *I*
use the word no with my dogs. They DEFINITELY know
what it means. However, I also give an alternative.


Example: Tyson is chewing on a corner of a box. I
say "no". He stops. I praise. I hold out one of his
chewies and say, "chew on this". He takes the chewie
and I praise.

He knows that no means to stop what he is doing, but by
offering the alternative, I have givin' him a "distraction",
I suppose. The way I see it is that he's chewing on the box
because it was there.

If I tell him no, he knows that he is not supposed to chew
on that. Giving praise after he stops lets him know that
"chewing on the box" was what I didn't want. Then I give
him something else that he's ALLOWED to chew on, letting
him know that the box was bad, the chewie is good.

Apparently my logic is working, since he hasn't tried to
chew on that box, or any other box since. He also hasn't
chewed on my shoes, since the first time he's picked on up
(although I did notice he was collecting them.......but not
even a toothmark on them).

He knows what he is and isn't allowed to chew on.

I call that a boundry.

And Master......yes, you made it to the list.......I have
removed Marilyn. Canis, I still haven't decided on. Jerry
is at the top. Sorry Master, you have to be more idiotic
to top Jerry......but you're working on it.
--
Mali
"You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will
be misquoted, then used against you."


Instrumental / Classical / Operant / Conditioning
CC / OC / IC / -P +P / +R -R / S R / R S
It's ALL The SAME SAME SAME SAME
<{); ~ ) >

HOWEDY People,

Since The Amazing Puppy Wizard ALWAYS gets CONfHOWENDED
tryin to suss the psychobabble in behavioral terminology
HE asked Dr. Von if he could remember what he was taught
in school fifty years ago:

"...all the highest nervous activity, as it manifests
tself in the conditional reflex, consists of a continual
change of these three fundamental processes -- excitation,
inhibition and disinhibition." Ivan P. Pavlov

What's important is, "does Shamu reliably
eat the fish and not the pretty girl?"

George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.

From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <***@mindspring.com>
Subject: The Amazing Jerry's take on psychobabble
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 12:13:44 -0400

You might improve the learning of folk who actually
live with and train dogs to do useful things if you
excluded everyone who uses psychobabble from your lists.

I recommend to all of you who wish to taste the flavor
of sensible animal behaviorists to read THE MISBEHAVIOR
OF ORGANISMS, Breland and Breland.

This married pair of psychologists began the long trail
of highly trained animals who are symbolized by Shamu
eating a mackrel from a girl's hand instead of eating
the much more tasty pretty girl who is exactly the size
of the natural food of killer whales, seals. Yum!

The essay, by the way, is a chapter in B.F. Skinner's
summing up book, CUMULATIVE RECORD. They include a
sentence which more or less says, "unless you understand
the personal history of the particular animal, and the
history of this animal's species and group, the developmental
history of the animal, you cannot effectively train the animal.

Pigs root and hen's scratch, if you try to train hens without
scratching or pigs without scratching or pigeons without pecking,
you aren't going to have much success.

A conditional reflex is one which is learned, the original
primitive reflex occurs no matter what the history of the
animal, and is hard wired. If you train the animal to respond,
say by ringing a bell immediately before turning on a bright
light, then you've taught the animal and made his native reflex
of pupil constriction conditional upon the ringing of a bell.

Thorndyke added some terminology to this kind of training
and insisted that when you train the animal to make gross
motor responses that this learning is "instrumental", the
animal takes action and uses an instrument.

The Russian word translated as "conditional" in all other
contexts was mistranslated by Pavlov's American translator,
Horsley Gannt, as "conditioned" and so American psychology
went haring after phantasmagora.

The major theorists for the development of the language of
operant conditioning are Edward Thorndike, John Watson, and
B. F. Skinner. Their approach to behaviorism played a major
role in the development of American psychology.

They proposed that learning is the result of the application
of consequences; that is, learners begin to connect certain
responses with certain stimuli. This connection causes the
probability of the response to change (i.e., learning occurs.)

Thorndike labeled this type of learning instrumental. Using
consequences, he taught kittens to manipulate a latch (e.g.,
an instrument). Skinner renamed instrumental as "operant"
because in this learning, one is "operating" on, and is
influenced by, the environment. Where classical conditioning
illustrates S-->R learning, operant conditioning is often
viewed as R-->S learning since it is the consequence that
follows the response that influences whether the response
is likely or unlikely to occur again.

It is through operant conditioning that
voluntary responses are learned.

One should note that Russian Psychology did very well
without the operant language, and only pettifogging
university professors ought to worry about what kind
of label we attach to the learning. Pfui!

Even Skinner understood this!

And please note if you saw the original movie, THE
MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE, you saw a Chinese psychologist
who was based on Andrew Salter, CONDITIONED REFLEX
THERAPY.

Alas, Salter didn't have a Ph.D., but he basically rescued
us from the long Freudian nightmare and returned psychotherapy
to a scientific basis. Alas, the 2nd movie didn't even cite
Salter as a source. "...all the highest nervous activity, as
it manifests itself in the conditional reflex, consists of a
continual change of these three fundamental processes --
excitation, inhibition and disinhibition." Ivan P. Pavlov

George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.

What's important is, "does Shamu reliably eat
the fish and not the pretty girl?"

George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.


Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 09:41:01 -0500
From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D."
<***@mindspring.com>
Subject: "time-out"

Dan, my own firm hatred of punishment has
recently been intensified by meeting The
Puppy Wizard, Jerry Howe, whose work with
dogs is marvelous.

There is a literature on harms caused by time
out, and perhaps you'd like to look at
http://www.dogydoright.com
George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.

"As Sam Corson (Pavlov's last student) demonstrated for
nearly 50 years at Ohio University (Oxford, O.) there
is no treatment more useful for dogs than tender loving
care."

George von Hilsheimer, Ph. D., F. R. S. H., Diplomate,
Academy of Behavioral Medicine

From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <***@mindspring.com
To: <***@arcane-computing.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 5:38 PM
Subject: Doggy advice

Scott, Jerry Howe forwarded me the letter below.
I'm glad that you referred negatively to Jerry's
habit of CAPITALIZING and HOWEING everything.

I personally hate this habit of his. I think it is his
way of diluting his authority - IME he is a very modest
fellow. However, contrary to your sneer, he is very
competent at living with dogs.

I thought I'd list a series of actions which I found
on the list, folk asking advice on what to do about
dogs doing this and that, for example:

whining,
humping, hunching,
pacing,
self mutilation - paw licking, side sucking,
spinning,
prolonged barking, barking at shadows,
overstimulated barking,
fighting, bullying other dogs,
compulsive digging,
compulsive scratching,
compulsive chewing,
frantic behavior,
chasing light, chasing shadow,
stealing food,
digging in garbage can,
loosing house (toilet) training.
inappropriate fearfulness
aggression.

The thing that is fascinating to me, as an ethologist who
graduated from college 50 years ago and has spent all of
the intervening time working with animals (including the
human animal), is that you never see any of these behaviors
in wild dingoes, jackals, coyotes or wolves, you don't even
see these behaviors in hyenas (who aren't dog related).

You see these behaviors in human managed animals, especially
animals who live with neurotic hysterical humans.

As Sam Corson (Pavlov's last student) demonstrated for
nearly 50 years at Ohio University (Oxford, O.) there
is no treatment more useful for dogs than tender loving care.

George von Hilsheimer, Ph. D., F. R. S. H., Diplomate,
Academy of Behavioral Medicine

INTRO TO WITS' END DOG TRAINING MANUAL
George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D. F.R.S.H.

Several years ago one of my old students telephoned
to me and asked me what I knew about Doggie Do
Right, a device to cause your neighbor's dog to stop
barking.

I had not heard of the device, nor its inventor, Jerry
Howe, but I telephoned, read his website, and told
my graduate that I thought the device was worth a
trial - indeed I shut up the dogs in my neighborhood
by turning on Jerry's supersonic device.

After all we all know that dogs respond to whistles
humans cannot hear, so why not respond to "attaboy"
sounds which humans cannot hear.

My student lived far from my Florida homestead, so
he tried it on the three incredibly savage, hyperactive
and noisy dogs who lived behind a tall fence just 3 feet
back of his bedroom.

Hot rats! The device worked,

Andy got his sleep and I didn't think much of the
matter again.

A few months ago I had new neighbors on each
side of my house, four of them, all with noisy
unshuttupable dogs. Argh!

So I foned Andrew in Virgina, received the intelligence
that his neighbors dogs were still quiet, and then I foned
Jerry Howe, the inventor of Doggie Do Right, who came
to visit me.

Merlin walked into my office.

Jerry is a slender fellow with a belly button lenghth grey
beard tapering down his chest. I liked him immediately,
and I applied his instrument to the neighborhood again
which again became silent.

It occured to me that if this ultrasonic field worked with
dogs that we ought at least to ask the question, what
happens to humans in range of the device???

I asked Jerry to give me a list of customers and began
inquiring among them. One thing became immediately
evident. The Doggie Do Right not only shuts up your
neighbors' dogs, it calms and modifies your husband's behavior.

Holey Moley, Captain Marvel, this device has major potential.

In the meantime Jerry gave me a copy of his Wits End
Dog Training Manual. I was delighted. He also introduced
me to the world of professional dog trainers some of whom
even have Ph.D.s in psychology.

This was not such a delight as it appeared that none
of these luminaries had actually read Skinner, Lazarus
or other fountains of wisdom in psychology. Indeed, it
seemed as though they knew very little about the laws
of behavior at all!

Punishment and confrontation seemed to be their
major stock in trade.

Well, if you go to my website, www.drbiofeedback.com
you can read of the career of Sam Corson, I.P. Pavlov's
last student.

Sam demonstrated that rehabilitation of hyperactive
dogs can easily and readily be done using TLC, tender
loving care is at the root of the scientific management
of doggies.

Pavlov told us so 100 years ago.

So what are these degreed morons doing punishing
dogs, and shouting "NO" into their doggie faces? If
you pick up B.F.Skinner's last book, CUMULATIVE
RECORD, included in it is an essay by Keller Breland
and Maryann Breland entitled THE MISBEHAVIOR OF ORGANISMS.

Skinner deliberately included his students' chapter
to emphasize that you cannot manage the behavior
of animals unless you take into consideration 1. the
animal's evolutionary niche (who is the animal?);
2. the animal's personal history (who is the animal?)
and 3, the instinctive repetoire of the animal (who is
the animal?) and 4. the personality of the animal (who
is the animal?).

The Brelands moved far from the white rat. "Thirty-eight
species, totaling over 6,000 individual animals, have
been conditioned, and we have dared to tackle such
unlikely subjects as reindeer, cockatoos, raccoons,
porpoises, and whales."

Jerry Howe spends most of his times with dogs, but
he has learned Pavlov's lesson well. Dogs are individuals,
they are individual DOGS, and they respond most directly
and immediately to love and tender loving care.

Read with pleasure, and then go love your dog.

George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.
Who's Who Honoree since 1983

From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D."

<***@mindspring.com>
To: <pdd-***@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 9:31 AM
Subject: How does diagnosis shape treatment?

How does diagnosis shape treatment?

Nearly every week I have a visit from Jerry Howe, who
publicizes himself as The Puppy Wizard. Jerry is a
master at behavioral modification of dogs.

His fundamental bedrock is the work Pavlov's last student,
the late Sam Corson, Ph.D., did at the U of Ohio (at Oxford,O).

Sam always pointed out if the dog stopped working for
you in the lab, Pavlov and he always took the dog away
from the lab, and put him in a loving home and gave him
TLC for a couple of months, and then started, very carefully,
over again.

Jerry believes that reward and constraint focused training
is immoral. I've watched him in one short session calm
impossible dogs, just about to be murdered (oops "put to
sleep") because of their "incorrigibly" violent behavior.

Sam was one of the first people to apply amphetamine to
hyperactivity (he searched the Middle West for hyperactive
dogs); but he never lost sight of the fundamental reality
that a dog is not a human, but does respond, doggily, to
dog love.

You might be surprised to go to B. F. Skinner's
"Cumulative Record" and read the essay by Breland
and Breland, "The Misbehavior of Organisms".

Animals cannot be successfully trained unless the
trainer attends to the evolutionary history, the
individual's developmental history, and the environmental
niche of the animal being trained.

Yep, right there in Skinner's last and summary book.
Even with behavior mod, you must know the animal.

<snip Dr. Von>

Dogs or little boys, you have to know the individual
history, and the nature of he disorder.

Dr. Von

PS if you are interested in dogs, then take a look
at Jerry's work, ***@Mail.Com

From: TooCool (***@hotmail.com)
The Puppy Wizard's Wits End Training Method

I have studied canine behavior and dog training for
years. I have a huge library that covers every system
of training.

The Puppy Wizard's (Jerry Howe's) Wits' End Training
Method is by far the most scientific, the most advanced,
the kindest, the quickest and the most effective training
method yet discovered.

It is not an assortment of training tips and tricks; it is
a logically consistent system. Every behavior problem
and every obedience skill is treated in the same logically
consistent manner.

Please study his manual carefully. Please endeavor to
understand the basis of his system and please follow
his directions exactly. His manual is a masterpiece.
It is dense with theory, with explanation, with detailed
descriptions about why behavior problems occur and
how their solution should be approached.

One should not pick and choose from among his methods
based upon what you personally like or dislike. His is
not a bag of tricks but a complete and integrated system
for not only training a dog but for raising a loving companion.

When I once said to Jerry that his system creates for
you the dog of your dreams, his response was that it
produces for your dog the owner of his dreams.

You see, Jerry has discovered that if you are gentle
with your dog then he will be gentle with you, if you
praise your dog every time he looks at you, then you
will become the center of your dogs world, if you use
Jerry's sound distraction with praise, then it takes
just minutes-sometimes merely seconds-to train your
dog to not misbehave (even in your absence) (Just 15
seconds this morning to train my 10 week old puppy to
lie quietly and let me clip his nails).

Using Jerry's scientific method (sound distraction /
praise / alteration / variation) it takes just minutes to
train you dog to respond to your commands.

What a pleasure it was for me to see my 6 week old
puppy running as fast has his wobbly little legs would
carry him in response to my recall command-and he
comes running every time I call no matter where we are
or what he is doing.

At ten weeks old now, my puppy never strains upon
his leash thanks to Jerry's hot & cold exercises and
his Family Pack Leadership exercises.

Jerry has discovered that if you scold your dog, if you
scream at him, if you intimidate him, if you hurt him,
if you force him then his natural response is to oppose
you.

Is Jerry a nut?

It doesn't make any difference to me whether he is or not.
It is a logical fallacy to judge a person's ideas based
upon their personality. As far as dogs are concerned, Jerry
wears his heart upon his sleeve. It touches him deeply when
he hears of trainers forcing, intimidating, scolding or
hurting dogs.

More than that, he knows that force is not effective
and that it will certainly lead to behavior problems;
sometime problems so severe that people put their
dogs down because of those problems.

I believe that it is natural for humans to want to control
their dog by force. Jerry knows this too. We have all been
at our wits' end, haven't we?

Dogs have a natural tendency to mimic. In scientific
literature it is referred to allelomimetic behavior. Dogs
respond in like kind to force; they respond in like kind
to praise.

Don't bribe your dog with treats; give him what he
wants most-your kind attention. Give him your praise.
You will be astonished at how your dog 's anxiety will
dissipate and how their behavior problems will dissipate
along with their anxiety.

Treat Jerry Howe's (The Puppy Wizard) Wits' End
Training Method as a scientific principle just as you
would the law of gravity and you will have astounding
success.

Dog behavior is just as scientific as is gravity.

If you follow Jerry's puppy rules you will get a sweet
little Magwai; if you don't you will surely get a little
gremlin (anyone see The Gremlins?). --Larry

From: Mike (***@ns.sympatico.ca)
Subject: Re: Info. on the puppy wizard?
Date: 2004-07-18 14:27:02 PST
Oh, and did I mention his methods work, ya nuff said.
Mike
Ok Mike which part worked for you?
It helped clear problems from my dogs in the
field using the can penny distraction technique.

Works like a charm.

My dogs get distracted easy from their jobs ie,
retrieving or training to find lost people, oh did
I mention that I am a Search and Rescue Team
Leader.

Sorry that slipped my mind.

I have read volumes of training books and don't
know where people get that Jerry copied others
work as I have NEVER come across his methods
before. I would like to see proof.

Just like Jerry outlined I eliminated problems one
at at time as they arose. I used to try and train to
the way I wanted them but this is backward, you
train out the problems leaving what you want left over.

Funny part is the second dog who had the same
problems as the other didn't need correcting for
some of his habits after I cleared it from the first
dog.

Seemed he learned through osmosis.

Nice side benefit there.

It nearly came to giving them up to a 3rd party
trainer as they were not performing well. The
VAST majority of working dog trainers are
agressive in their actions with the dogs.

I tried it and it didn't work and guess what I
was at my "Whits End" then someone I new
turned me onto Jerry and the rest is history.

I referred friends and families to Jerry's manual
and all have had great results. Starting puppies
out on the distraction technique is especially
good because they never develop the habit.

I had my sisters dog healing, sitting and down
stay reliably at 8-9 weeks. The first night home
following Jerrys advice we ditched the crate and
put the pup on the floor beside the bed and after
2 whimpers NOT A SOUND OUT OF THAT DOG
FOR 6 HRS! first night, that has never happened
in all my days.

Sorry, the man understands dogs its that simple.

Mike

Dr. George VonHilsheimer writes in
"Is there a SCIENCE of BEHAVIOR?":

"Valette 1966 is a complete trivialization of
scientific findings. It overstates the case for
reinforcement theory. No careful researcher
would contend that operant techniques CAN
ANY THING MORE than modify SHORT TERM
BEHAVIOR in a highly controlled and limited
environment with a large number of skillful
experimenters. Certainly the most elaborate
studies have shown that the withdrawal or
temprary inefficiency of the reward system is
immediately followed by CESSATION of the
programmed behavior.

In fortunate contrast to this depressing paper
is the research reported by Whelan (1966) who
makes the simple but profHOWEND caveat that
"It is only through CORRECT, EFFICIENT APPLICATION
(of operant principles) that children's behavor can
be changed to the extent that they can subsequently
contribute to the REAL WORLD in which they live." "

"The Methods, Principles, And Philosophy Of Behavior
Never Change,
Or They'd Not Be Scientific And Could Not Obtain
Consistent, Reliable, Fast, Effective Results
For All Handler's And All Dogs,
ALL OVER THE WHOLE WILD WORLD,
NEARLY INSTANTLY,
As Taught In Your FREE Copy Of The Puppy Wizard's
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual,"
The Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >

Dr. Von continues:

"Whelan illustrates the simple nature or the
learning process by referring to Ferster's
engaging study of two three year old
chimpanzees taught mathematics through
simple procedures. Whelan carries this
EVIDENCE a step futher by pointing HOWET
it's applicability to disturbed children."

You Get The Critter You Trained

A Dog Is A Dog
As A Kat Is A Kat
As A Birdie Is A Birdie
As A Child Is A Child
As A SP-HOWES Is a SP-HOWES.

ALL Critters Only Respond In
PREDICTABLE INNATE NORMAL NATURAL INSTINCTIVE
REFLEXIVE Ways
To Situations And Circumstances Of Their Environment
Which We Create For Them.

Damn The Descartean War of
"Nature Vs Nurture."
We Teach By HOWER Words And Actions
And GET BACK What We TAUGHT.

In The Problem Animal Behavior BUSINESS
FAILURE MEANS DEATH.
SAME SAME,
For The Problem Child Behavior BUSINESS.

Dr. Von continues:

"If chimpanzees CAN LEARN mathematics
through step by step learning AT THEIR OWN
PACE, reinforced primarily by CORRECT
ANSWERS rather than with "fruit loops and
rasins", we can assume that even developmentally
RETARDED or CONfHOWENDED children CAN LEARN as well.

Moreover, Whelan makes the EXXXTREMELY important point
that while most teachers assume that learning takes place
verbally, primarily it is a non verbal
process..

Unfortunately Whelan limits himself to the problem
that "teachers must not only modify or remove specific
deviant behaviors, but must also develop socially
acceptable behavior patterns in the classroom and
classroom conditioned goals, NOT LEARNING.

Other researchers have emphasized the importance
ofadult behaviors in conditioning classroom behavior.
An EXXXCELLENT review of this researchshowd that
tantrum behavior, excessive crawling and dependency,
isolated play, passivity, spelling failure, and other
problem behaviors can be managed by altering habitual
adult responses to children (Harris, Wolf and Baer, 1964) .

Such RESEARCH holds GREATER PROMISE in that
alteration of the conditioning social environment seems
to provide more STABLE and LASTING CHANGES than
"M and M's". Moreover, a great deal of work has been
done developing EFFECTIVE techniques of behavior
modificaton through the conditioning social environment
of peers (Hartup, 1964). These directions would seem
more PRODUCTIVE than a simple minded trainslation
of the Skinner cage to the classroom.

Skinner (1963) pointed HOWET that operant techniques
can "be utilized fully ONLY IF we REDEFINE the GOALS
of education and the CONDITIONS in the educational
environment under which those goals may be reached...
(through) a DIFFERENT KIND of educational research
which is much more closely concerned with the immediate
dimensions of the student's behavior than with gross
changes such as IMPROVED PERFORMANCES."

UNFORTUNATELY, neither Skinner nor ANY OTHER
learning theorist has provided us with a working
model of a school or research enterprise based
on systemic and thorough-going APPLICATION of
LEARNING PRINCIPLES.

Skinner (1948, 1953) approaches a definition of the
philosophical issues involved, and provides an utopian
model of a school, but generally psychologists seem
STUCK at a level of MANAGEMENT of an aggressively
disturbing child in the classroom, through peer approval,
or the aplication of accelerating CONsequences in the
classroom, or scientifically S-HOWENDING tactics like
"TIME HOWET" (which we used to know more simply
as "sendin the kid to the cloakroom").

Hobbs (op. cit.) claims that the classroom is a
natural environement for the child. Thelen (1965)
contends that "classroom practices are UNnatural,
UNreasonable, and 'against NATURE.' ". This
would seem the central issue for the philosophy of
education. Mere trivial application of research findings
to an institution essentially unchanged from Sumerian
academies (Kramer, 1962) will NOT create useful
teaching for human beings.

It seems relevant to ask EXXXACTLY WHAT do we
know abHOWT the learning situation in which HOWER
children find themselves, and why, in the light of HOWER
knowledge, do we do any of the things that schools do?"

We know that there is little agreement among adults
as to what it is they are SUPPOSED to be DOING,
what something to do could be that MIGHT be
EFFECTVE, and what it IS that other people who
have authority over children ought to be doing (Mc-
Eachern and Taylor, 1967). Wherefor the child's
CONfusiHOWEN?

It is NO WONDER hat the marked changes in
deviant behavior of children can be achieved
through brief, simple educative routines with
their mothers which modify the mother's
social behaviors shaping the child (Whaler,
1966). Some clinics have reported ELIMINATION
ofthe need for child THERAPY through changing
the clinical emphasis from clinical to parental
HANDLING of the child (Szrynski 1965). A large
number of cases improved sufficiently after
preliminary contact with parents that NO treatment
of children was required, and almost ALL cases
SHOWE a remarkably shortened period for therapy.
Quite severe cases of anorexia nervosa have been
treated in own to five months by simply REPLACING
the parents temporarily with EFFUSIVELY LOVING
SUBSTITUTES (Groen, 1966).

Probably the most absurd figure in Amaerican mass
media is the TEACHER (Gerbner, 1966). HOWE can
we EXXXPECT children to LEARN responsible P-HOWER
from models of IMPOTENCE? We KNOW that LEARNING
a complex ritualized social role, is facilitated
by observation of an INTELLIGIBLE MODEL much more
effectively than by trial and error with REINFORCEMENT.

Roles which are relatively arbitrary and senseless are
the most difficult to learn (Luchins, 1966). Do we make
ANY EFFORT as teachers to CORRECT the massive impact of
media?

HOWE can the ARBITRARINESS and SENSELESSNESS
of IMPOTENT ADULT MODELS be redeemed by anything
short of RELEVANCE and COMMITMENT?

As an engaging final comment on the PROFESSION
let me mention the little study by Dittman et al (1965)
tha when 15 psychotherapists and 9 professional dancers
evaluated facial and bodily expressons for effect the
dancers ere much MOORE accurate. Need we say
MOORE abHOWET the training of therapists?

THE OPERANT FALLACY

Programs utilizing the "contingencies of reinforcement
model" proposed by Skinner (1963) ar no more well
established in research than the various dynamic
therapists. Research in four areas : 1) direct evaluation
of programmed systems for elarning; 2) reinforcement;
3) cognitive dissonance; and 4) motivation, MOST SURELY
DEMOLISH the claims of operant programers.

The 190 studies annotated by Schramm (1964) when
inspected display NO SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCES
in SUCCESS among approaches and modifications.
Programmed instruction is no worse than conventional
instruction, and takes less time, but time reductions in
conventional instruction has frequently been shown
possible without detrimental effects. If you draw your
controls cagily you can always show the superiority of
your PET technique.

Moore and Smit (1964) compared variations on
programmed materials, machines, texts, written
responses, merely reading, free response, multiple
choice, and iving or not giving the students results.
There were NO SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCES despite
Skinner's insistence on the importance of the
CONTINGENCY of REINFORCEMENT. Carpenter
and Greenhill (1963) could find NO DIFFERENCE
in RESULTS even after eliminating the self-pacing
feature by presenting the materials by TV or Video.

Krumboltz and Kiesler (1965) reported that a two month
follow up test showed NO DIFFERENCE between students
given a variety of reinforcement schedules. Mayo and
Longo (1966) report that naval and marine trainees
saved 30% of time in learning electronics fundamentals
through a programed course witrh superior scores on one
measure but not on another, and with no follow-up reported.

The same authors reported a reductionj from 26 HOWERS
to 19 HOWERS in instruction time through the use of
program with NO DIFFERENCE in test scores, except that
as longer blocks of materiallearned through programmed
means were tesed the scores DECREASED.

When the control instruction is manipulated an entirely
DIFFERENT picture emerges Jacobs and Kulkarni (1966)
assignedstudents in three different schools to classes
with standard programmed material giving immediate
knowledge of results to classes without results and to
classes with the order of sections of the program inverted.

In two schools the groups without knowledge of results
and the groups with inverted material SCORED HIGHER.
In one school there was NO DIFFERENCE. So much for
THEORY. Reid and Taylor (1965) presented a linear
program on paper-making to 60 paid undergrads with
a 12 week follow up test. The group which merely
read learned the same material in 154 minutes to
243 minutes for the group given responses- a
REVERSAL of the usual BIASED RESULTS based
on POOR CON-TROLLS. There were no differences
on post tests.

Spagnoli (1965) reports on a study exposing the control
and programed group to the same material in a concentrated
effort over a limited period of time. There were NO
SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCES.

Sassenrath and Garverick (1965) gave 4 matched
groups of 120 students four procedures: 1) looking
up the wrong answers, 2) having questions discussed
by the instructors, 3) checking answers from correct
ones on the board, and 4) no feedback. The discussion
method proved best.

Finally, in studying means of training men to perform
a 72 action prcedure on Nike-Hercules equipment,
Cox and Boren (1965) demonstrated that the time
required to learn the procedure to critterion was NO
DIFFERENT when the actions were organized into
seven operant spans and taught in reverse order, in
natural order, or without grouping into operant spans
at all.

IT IS CLEAR that as comparisons became more
sophisticated programed instruction and other
operant teaching techniquesreveal tehemselves
as simply another prestigiHOWES FAD--somewhat
better than conventional instruction in saving time,
but certainly not providing a better or better organized
or more independently useful GRASP of KNOWLEDGE.

The IMBECILITY of some ofthe claims for operant
technique simply take the breath away. Lovas et al
(1966) report a standard contingent reward/punishment
procedure developing imitative speech in two severly
disturbed non verbal schizophrenic boys. After twenty-
six days the boys are reported to have been learning
new words with alacrity. HOWEver, when REWARDS
were moved to a delayed contingency the behavoir and
learning immediately deteriorated.

Despite this, and despite the fact that there was no
evidence of cognitive association with the words, the
authors leap to the conclusion that the fact that the
boys improved in the acquisition of Norwegian words
WITHOUT REWARDS while still being given English
words WITH REWARDS suggest hat the children may
be able to acquire new behaviors on their own.

The need for this study escapes one, particularly in
view of the very well established fact that schizophrenics
condition quite readily (Mednick, 1958)

One can see the "SCIENTIFIC" PRECISION by which the
authors drop contingent reinforcements thus PROVING
that the parrot behavior was indeed caused by the schedule
and NOT by some other mystical force.

The use of Norwegian to demonstrate learning that
could not even remotely be related to previous history
is a grotesquery too bizarre to be credited. Who could
possibly doubt that this useless and probably damaging
trained seal routine depended on the psychologist's antics?

What on earth led them to believe that a schizophrenic
needs even more other-focused responsiveness?

Lovaas et al (1965) reportedthree programs carried
out on five year old autistic twins conditioining them
to "social behavior" and to eliminate pathologial
behaviors such as self-stimulation and tantrums.

Affectionate and other social behaviors toward
adults increaseed after adults had been associated
with shock reduction. The routine for this treatment
brings immediate relief to mind Sawrey and Wesz
(1956) routine for producing ulcers in monkeys.

I suppose it is USELESS to speculate on the source
of SO CALLED THERAPISTS willingness to experiment
on human beings with procedures for which there is
sound experimentally established WARNINGS. If the
"double blind" theory of the origin of schizophrenia
(Bateson, 1956) is at all valid, HOWE DEVASTATING
the experience must ULTIMATELY BE.

Do Lovaas et al REALLY BELIEVE the schizophrenic
has no cognitive processes and DOES NOT KNOW
WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE SHOCK? Greger
(1965) criticized this study on the basis that
trainsfer CANNOT be generalized.

That issue can be answered by experience, and, of
curse, the "social" behavior of these children deteriorates
as soon as the psychologists LOOSE INTEREST.

The IMPORTANT ISSUE for a SCIENCE OF BEHAVIOR
is why not attempt those things which are KNOWN to
WORK at least in some cases if only for control puporses.

Kanner (1954) reports that 13 classically autistic
children improved enough to go to school without
"anything that is regarded as good psychotherapy or
as psychotherapy at all..."

Autistic children have been known to become
permenantely social by deinstitutionalization,
BY REMOVAL from the parents, BY RADICAL CHANGES
in other environments, and by MASSIVE DOSAGE of
TOUCHING, HOLDING, FONDLING LOVE DESPITE THE
REJECTION OF THE CHILD.

My case, Larry, (vonHilsheimer, 1965b), demonstrates
a recovery by using the mother as an autistic boy's
teacher in an open millieu. It is curiHOWES that the
operant technicians provide as few, and as UNIMAGINITAVE
controls for thier "research" as the Freudians.

REWARD / PUNISHMENT

Despite Skinner's clear denunciation of "negative
reinforcement" (1958) NEARLY EVER LEARNING
THEORY model involves the USE OF PUNISHMENT.
Of curse, Skinner has never to my knowledge,
demonstrated HOWE we escape the phenomenon
that an expected reward not received is experienced
as a punishment and can produce extensive and
persistent aggression (Azrin et al, 1966).

MIMICRY, PLAY, EXPLORATION AND
THE NEED FOR DATA

Complex activities are LEARNED MORE QUICKLY
through OBSERVATION (copying, if you will) than
by trial and error with reinforcemet (Luchins,).
Observers of subjects making a first trial of a multiple
choice bolt head maze made fewer errors than the
practiced subjects in the second run, while subjects
who have been shocked for error on a first trial made
more errors than either (Rosenbaum & Hewitt, 1966).
Students will modify their beliefs more when rewarded
for the way in which they carried out arguing for a
disagreeable position (role reward), than when rewarded
for the content of the argument (Wallace, 1966).
======================
W***@Animail.Net
2005-07-31 20:30:53 UTC
Permalink
HOWEDY Lucy,
Anyone knows of any trainer (before
Jerry) who had been using praise for
stopping bad behavior?
Absolutely. It's done all the time, by almost everyone.
ALL EXXXCEPT when the dog is doin BAD BEHAVIORS, Lucy.
Then they PREVENT and give ALTERNATE INCOMPATIBLE behaviors
and REWARDS which INCREASE ANXXXIHOWESNESS INCREASE DESIRE
and TEACH FEAR GREED and MISTRUST and TEACH the dog to DO
the BAD BEHAVIOR when the CON-TROLLER AIN'T IN CON-TROLL.

THAT'S HOWE COME dogs GET separation anXXXIHOWESNESS.
Then it must be really easy to provide a source
on the Internet. Should I hold my breath?
If you like. I have no intention of spoonfeeding you
information because you've set yourself up as the "Yes,
but why?" girl.
RIGHT. All you gotta do is LOOK UP her own POSTED CASE
HISTORY and her own SELECTIVELY BRED HAND PICKED and
TESTED SAR dog JIVE <{); ~ ) >
Yes, I know it's annoying, but to a simple straightforward
question I expect a simple straightforward answer, if you
can and are willing to reply.
Ooops! You know news group servers and email are
SUCH an inprecise science... like dog trainin <{); ~ ) >

PERHAPS THAT's HOWE COME Robert Crim feels there's
NO NEED for him to reply to these pathological mental
cases, eh Lucy?
You don't need to "spoonfeed" me anything: just a reference
that would support your claim that other trainers are using
Jerry's method of praising bad behavior in order to end it.
THERE AIN'T NONE.
It must be easy, since they/you are "doing it all the time".
THERE AIN'T NONE.
Just a cite (or a site) detailing exactly HOW it is been done.
THERE AIN'T NONE.
There's no need for you to correct me or explain anything
to me - just provide the author's own words, so that we all
can compare with what Jerry writes in his manual. Is this so
difficult?
Yeah, it's IMPOSSIBLE on accHOWENT of THERE AIN'T NONE.
Most of your problems in communicating here are based
in your lack of understanding terminology and basic concepts.
THERE AIN'T NO TERMINOLOGY PROBLEM. The ONLY PROBLEM is
HOWER DOG LOVER'S FUNDAMENTAL NEED and DESIRE and PREFERENCE
TO HURT INTIMDIDATE and MURDER INNOCENT DUMB CRITTERS.
Terminology shouldn't get in the way;
It DON'T. It's a SMOKE SCREEN.
if particle physics can be explained in plain English,
you certainly could do the same about dog training.
LIKE THIS?:

Instrumental / Classical / Operant / Conditioning
CC / OC / IC / -P +P / +R -R / S R / R S
It's ALL The SAME SAME SAME SAME
<{); ~ ) >

HOWEDY People,

Since The Amazing Puppy Wizard ALWAYS gets CONfHOWENDED
tryin to suss the psychobabble in behavioral terminology
HE asked Dr. Von if he could remember what he was taught
in school fifty years ago:

"...all the highest nervous activity, as it manifests
tself in the conditional reflex, consists of a continual
change of these three fundamental processes -- excitation,
inhibition and disinhibition." Ivan P. Pavlov

What's important is, "does Shamu reliably
eat the fish and not the pretty girl?"

George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.

From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <***@mindspring.com>
Subject: The Amazing Jerry's take on psychobabble
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 12:13:44 -0400

You might improve the learning of folk who actually
live with and train dogs to do useful things if you
excluded everyone who uses psychobabble from your lists.

I recommend to all of you who wish to taste the flavor
of sensible animal behaviorists to read THE MISBEHAVIOR
OF ORGANISMS, Breland and Breland.

This married pair of psychologists began the long trail
of highly trained animals who are symbolized by Shamu
eating a mackrel from a girl's hand instead of eating
the much more tasty pretty girl who is exactly the size
of the natural food of killer whales, seals. Yum!

The essay, by the way, is a chapter in B.F. Skinner's
summing up book, CUMULATIVE RECORD. They include a
sentence which more or less says, "unless you understand
the personal history of the particular animal, and the
history of this animal's species and group, the developmental
history of the animal, you cannot effectively train the animal.

Pigs root and hen's scratch, if you try to train hens without
scratching or pigs without scratching or pigeons without pecking,
you aren't going to have much success.

A conditional reflex is one which is learned, the original
primitive reflex occurs no matter what the history of the
animal, and is hard wired. If you train the animal to respond,
say by ringing a bell immediately before turning on a bright
light, then you've taught the animal and made his native reflex
of pupil constriction conditional upon the ringing of a bell.

Thorndyke added some terminology to this kind of training
and insisted that when you train the animal to make gross
motor responses that this learning is "instrumental", the
animal takes action and uses an instrument.

The Russian word translated as "conditional" in all other
contexts was mistranslated by Pavlov's American translator,
Horsley Gannt, as "conditioned" and so American psychology
went haring after phantasmagora.

The major theorists for the development of the language of
operant conditioning are Edward Thorndike, John Watson, and
B. F. Skinner. Their approach to behaviorism played a major
role in the development of American psychology.

They proposed that learning is the result of the application
of consequences; that is, learners begin to connect certain
responses with certain stimuli. This connection causes the
probability of the response to change (i.e., learning occurs.)

Thorndike labeled this type of learning instrumental. Using
consequences, he taught kittens to manipulate a latch (e.g.,
an instrument). Skinner renamed instrumental as "operant"
because in this learning, one is "operating" on, and is
influenced by, the environment. Where classical conditioning
illustrates S-->R learning, operant conditioning is often
viewed as R-->S learning since it is the consequence that
follows the response that influences whether the response
is likely or unlikely to occur again.

It is through operant conditioning that
voluntary responses are learned.

One should note that Russian Psychology did very well
without the operant language, and only pettifogging
university professors ought to worry about what kind
of label we attach to the learning. Pfui!

Even Skinner understood this!

And please note if you saw the original movie, THE
MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE, you saw a Chinese psychologist
who was based on Andrew Salter, CONDITIONED REFLEX
THERAPY.

Alas, Salter didn't have a Ph.D., but he basically rescued
us from the long Freudian nightmare and returned psychotherapy
to a scientific basis. Alas, the 2nd movie didn't even cite
Salter as a source. "...all the highest nervous activity, as
it manifests itself in the conditional reflex, consists of a
continual change of these three fundamental processes --
excitation, inhibition and disinhibition." Ivan P. Pavlov

George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.

What's important is, "does Shamu reliably eat
the fish and not the pretty girl?"

George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.
Only you can fix that by putting forth more effort
than you have to date. That's why I won't feed you
sites, only search criteria suggestions.
It seems to me that what you do, not very successfully,
who has been using Jerry's method before Jerry?
THERE AIN'T NO WON.

The CLOSEST was Dr. Dare Miller, Bill Campbell's Guru.
Dr. Miller teaches brief variable alternating distraction
instantly followed by prolonged non physical praise but
he does NOT teach and rely on PRAISE IN AVANCE and PROLONGED
NON PHYSICAL PRAISE and MOORE PRAISE IN ADVANCE as the CURE
for ALL temprament and behavior problems <{); ~ ) >
Author:_________________________
Book/Journal:___________________
Edition/year/volume/page:______________/__________/___________/___________
<<_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________>>
Alternatively, you can provide the URL of a site containing the
http://_______________________________________________________________
Author:________________________________
<<______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________>>
(I also had my children look up words in the
dictionary rather than just tell them meanings.)
Yeah, but if the child asks, "Mom, where's my pink dress?"
you CAN direct her to the exact spot where the dress is,
and not send her first to learn how to make a dress, can't
you?
NOT IN KEEPIN WITH HER LEARNING THEORY, and THAT INCONSISTENCY
is HOWE COME HER LEARNING FAILS TO TEACH TRUST, UNCONDITIONAL
LOVE and RESPECT <{); ~ ) >
What do you think people are doing when they
talk about desensitizing?
PRAISING the BAD behavior? Allow me to doubt it.
You're wrong. That's exactly what they are doing -
Then HOWE COME she's still chokin shockin and MURDERIN dogs?
because the dog's behavior doesn't matter at
all in Classical Conditioning.
So you can PRAISE BAD BEHAVIORS?
CC changes the way the dog feels about something
by adding a pleasant association (praise).
But dogs PREFER being jerked and choked on pronged
spiked pinch choke collars and shocked bribed and
murdered?
You praise whatever the dog is doing,
Like ATTACKING HIS HANDLER?
because you're not praising the behavior itself.
RIGHT. You're TRYING to CHANGE HIS STATE OF MIND
to FRIENLY LOVING TRUSTIN behavior... so you SHOCK
IT to MAKE SHORE IT UNDERSTANDS the ALTERNATIVES
to UNCONDITIONAL LOVE?
That change in association then changes the dog's behavior.
So HOWER DOG LOVERS ALWAYS RESORT TO PRAISE
when their dogs DO BAD BEHAVIORS like pull
on leash... and ATTACK INNOCENT CRITTERS.
OC is different because the dog's response does
matter. OC changes behavior by reinforcing or
punishing it.
HOWE COME would you PUNISH a dog when PRAISING
CHANGES THE BAD BEHAVIOR TO GOOD ASSOCIATIONS?
One of the big reasons people are having such a
hard time talking to you is that you persist in
talking about Jerry's CC method in OC terms.
You mean NOT HURTIN DOGS, lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn?
It simply doesn't work the way you describe it
Does it WORK like HOWE she just described it HERSELF, Lucy?
and that's why you get argument.
Seems the PROBLEM is OC, not CC or HOWE Jerry's METHOD
EXXXPLAINS IT, isn't that correct, Lucy?
In fact, I suspect that you have a some kind of
misunderstanding of what's going on with CC.
Could be CHANGING THE MOOD is all you GOT to UNDERSTAND
abHOWET rehabilitating FEAR BEHAVIORS like separation
anXXXIHOWESNESS or fear of thunder or aggression.
Could be. In my younger days, CC was ringing a bell
while giving the dog food; as a result, the dog was
associating the ringing bell with the imminence of
feeding and would salivate when hearing the bell,
even if no food was provided. An innate behavior was
produced at will by its association with the conditional
stimulus: the bell.
Kinda like Mesmer, the HYPNOTIST.
But, you know what? Why complicate the things? Here's
a behavior of the dog that I wanted to change, tell me
what you'd have done in this case and I'll tell what I
did, according to Jerry's method. That will show us in
clear unequivocal way if we'd do the same thing or not.
Is this OK with you?
PROBABLY NOT.. "EVERY DOG IS DIFFERENT", REMEMBER, Lucy?
He stands right in the middle of the sofa and is frantically
digging with his front paws into the sofa. He is about to make
a hole in the upholstery and down all the way to China, so he
has to be stopped quickly. What do you do?
TIME FOR A COOKIE!
Thank you for taking the trouble to reply.
Hmmm, NOT LIKELY, Lucy.
Lucy
Mon, Jul 26 2004 1:25 pm
Subject: Re: "Learning Theory"-An Insult to Canines

What you fail to understand is the concept of self generated,
self motivated behavior as opposed to reflex like behavior that
is simply a response to a stimulus.

It is double talk to refer to self generated behavior as a
response to internally generated stimuli. Thinking is not a
response to any stimuli. It takes effort to think. It takes
will power. It is a self generated, conscious process that
operates independently of any reinforcement.

Thinking is initiated by the will of the thinker,
without stimulus-it is self generated.

B.F. Skinner behaviorism applied to thinking animals is
a grotesque fraud.

Its propagation as a model for learning has inflicted untold
damage upon thinking animals-especially humans. It does not
surprise me that those who endorse it do not consider themselves
more evolutionarily advanced than newts, because according to
"learning theory", learning is no different for a newt than it
is for a human.

But for thinking animals, the rules of "learning theory"
are not their primary mechanism for learning-their primary
mechanism is a thinking process and a thinking process is
not a response to any stimuli or reinforcement-it is self
generated.

I cannot imagine how any enlightened mind can believe that
their knowledge was randomly gained from external/internal
stimuli. Anyone who has taken the effort to observe or to
study the thinking skills of canines could never believe
that their behavior results from random external/internal
stimuli.

Have you never heard of the ingenious feats of thinking that
dogs have performed to save their owner's lives? The renowned
canine psychologist, Dr Dare Miller, personally revealed to me
the events of two separate occasions when his dog exhibited
profound thinking skills to figure out a way to save his life;

once when he was trapped under the ice in a lake and another
when he was buried in an avalanche.

My statements on the use of praise have either been
misunderstood or else they have been twisted to suit
the detractor's intent.

The Puppy Wizard's Wits' End Training Method uses praise
extensively-it is integral to the method. But the method
is designed for thinking animals not B.F. Skinner robots
who's only learning mechanism would be through pain or
bribe.

Thus, as I originally stated, praise is not used as reinforcement
because the entire concept of "learning theory" is rejected as an
applicable model for thinking animals.

--Larry



From: "Sionnach" <***@msn.com>
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 21:20:53 -0400

Subject: Re: "Learning Theory"-An Insult to Canines
She tried to tear down Dare Miller (who I
know nothing about actually) by belittling
his life, talents, age, and the validity of
his accomplishments and relevance.
You're either seriously lacking in reading comprehension,
or you're imagining things, Mike. I made absolutely *no*
comment about Miller's life, talents, age, or accomplishments.

The point I was making that TooLame is off base in trying to
put down others for not having heard of Miller by going on about
all the TV shows he's been on when said TV appearances were
apparently 25 years ago or more.


From: "michael 2.41 beta" <***@yoohoogoogle.com>
Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2004 22:27:38 -0400

Subject: Re: "Learning Theory"-An Insult to Canines
She tried to tear down Dare Miller (who I
know nothing about actually) by belittling
his life, talents, age, and the validity of
his accomplishments and relevance.
You're either seriously lacking in reading comprehension,
or you're imagining things, Mike. I made absolutely *no*
comment about Miller's life, talents, age, or accomplishments.
You were trying to made Dare Miller irrelevant, in
order to make Larry "TooCool" irrelevant. That's
how you operate. You are our resident attack
chihuahua and you've been doing it for years.

As soon as Larry brought up Dr. Dare Miller,
you went to work to discredit Larry, via way
of discrediting Dare Miller by stressing how
old and out of date he and his accomplishments
etc...were, thereby how outdated andinsignificant
he must be, while at the same time knowing absolutely
nothing about him.

You did it simply via chronology, aka age by implication.

And the ONLY reason you did it was to make him
irrelevant, so you could make Larry irrlevant.

You have tried the same with me by complaining that
some of my videos are a even just a few years old,
and trying to use that to somehow discredit them
and make them irrelevant. You have also tried to
discredit my videos by via the format they are
produced in.

such as .wmv

BWHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAA!!!!
as if that was some sort of insult.

and no, I don't use Windows Movie Maker
BWHAHHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!

and even if I did, it would be no grounds to
discredit my videos.

This .wmv is dedicated to you.
If you want to discredit it, please focus
on the content. Thank you.

http://dogtv.com/sionnach.wmv

PS,
I'm not an expert on the "fallacies" but you are
certainly an expert at exploiting them to tarnish,
discredit and ankle bite to try to bring people
down to your level.

I hope that heelps you today

this is michael
reporting live...
http://dogtv.com
Y***@InBox.Com
2005-08-01 06:06:50 UTC
Permalink
HOWEDY lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn,
I gave you the reference I wanted you
to have - Ian Dunbar's video -
Seems Lucy would have to BUY the VIDEO from
your PERSONAL REAL LIFE NETWORKING pal Master
Of Deception blankman, eh lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn?
because I didn't want to play the word game about "That's
not really the same thing as what JH is doing" with you.
THAT'S O.K., lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn. We'll
just play the WORD GAME of your own POSTED CASE
HISTORY abHOWET your own PERSONAL REAL LIFE IN
I spent this evening at a small group session on
dog-human aggression hosted by Open Paw. Ian
Dunbar was the speaker
That's DOCTOR ian dunbar, dog behavior fraudS.
and was very clear that he uses P.
You mean P as in PUNISHMENT or P as in PRAISE?

Or P as in POO POO?

We're gonna quit using CONfHOWENDING scrabble
terms and RELY on INTELLIGENCE and HONESTY,
things you've YET to learn abHOWET cause you'll
do and say ANY THING to defend your alleged right
to hurt and murder dogs as you PREFER.
The distinction he made, and I think it's at the
heart of the issue, is that he only uses what he
calls "instructive punishment".
IOW MOORE DHOWEble talk. lying "I LOVE KOEHELR"
lynn REPORTED his "METHOD" DIDN'T WORK for her
and her PALS who were at that "grHOWEL class":

Lynn K.:
In a talk on dog-dog aggression on 5/27.
Given his propensity for repeating himself
verbatim, I'll bet he's also written it somewhere :-)

My biggest take-home from that evening actually
came from a brief conversation with Tricia999 &
some co-workers afterwards.

They confirmed my experience that "growl classes"
don't have a lasting impact on the reactivity of dog
aggressive dogs.

Our common experience was that the desensitization
only lasted for the session and didn't carry forward.

As an aside, you might want to get a copy of the
little training manual they are using for shelter
volunteers at www.openpaw.org

The stuff on teaching people how to get into the
kennel and get an excited dog out for a walk is
excellent. Lynn K.

So you see DOG LOVERS, YOUR METHODS
DON'T WORK and YOUR EXXXPERTS ARE
FRAUDS LIARS DOG ABUSERS COWARDS
and ACTIVE LONG TERM INCURABLE MENTAL
CASES and IT'S IN BLACK AND WHITE and html.

"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn.

lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.

- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.

Lynn K.

From: Lynn Kosmakos (***@home.com)
"Remember this - The decision to "do right" that most
helps a dog's character is the decision that he makes
himself. You cannot teach a dog to not want something,
any more than you can teach a human not to want something."

From: Lynn K. (***@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: Free Feeding (Was Re: Repeating Commands)
Date: 2001-07-17 21:59:53 PST
For example, if one was to use the dogs regular
kibble as a motivator in class, the dog will probably
not be as motivated as he would be if a different type
of treat was offered (say, a piece of hotdog).
Not necessarily. Remember that there is value added
to the treat by virtue of getting it from the handler as a
reward.

That's the reason I handfed Java for a week.

To add value to the food.

It isn't just another piece of kibble when it
comes from Mom as a reward.

Lynn K.
Play, yes; food, no.
From: Lynn K. (***@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: Kali gets her CDX!
Date: 2003-10-26 13:49:37 PST

"KrisHur" <***@hotmail.com> wrote in message
<news:***@corp.supernews.com>...> THANKS!

You deserve it! You have my empathy on the heeling
problem. 2 of 29 qualified in Open A & B this morning
at Sacramento - ring fouled overnight by conformation
people exercising their dogs.

A Borzoi vomited on the spot, a Rottie peed on it, and
almost every other dog (including Java) dropped their
nose to the spot and started tracking.

ARRRGH!

Lynn K.
I wanted you to see it with your own eyes,
LIKE THAT? BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEHAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!

WORDS OF WISDOM
from our own Lynn Kosmakos
1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every day
For Twenty Years

I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM

"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder (manic-depression)
requiring 1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every day.
I, also, care about dogs and use this forum to learn more,
while happily sharing pertinent information I have learned.

But if I were ever to post such sh*t, I would hope that every
other reader of this group would be rightfully outraged."

"Community is an evolutionary thing that we earn
the right to participate in by observing the easily
understood rules and contributing to in constructive ways."

Lynn K.

------------------------------­-----------

LYNN K. and LOIS E, and a BiLateral, BiPolar
conversation on Mental problems. LYNN AND
LOIS Almost 50 years on mental illness medications
combined

------------------------------­-----------
because you tend to read meanings into the written word.
Duh? BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!

You mean LIKE THIS?:

"You Lying Sack Of Dung.When Have I Ever Said
Anything About Using A Prong Collar, Or Any Collar
Correction At All, To Make Dogs Friendly To House
Cats? Don't bother. The answer is never," lying "I
LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.

lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn writes about kats and dogs:

'This Article Is Something We've Put Together
For SF GSD Rescue'

From: Lynn Kosmakos (***@home.com)
Subject: Re: I have a dog he has cats
Date: 1999/11/20
How can I get him to quit chasing the cats.
Okay - this is going to be a bit loooong - Lynn K.

"Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog. Don't
forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong works
better than a choke with less chance of injury to the dog in
this situation.

Electronics can be used to create an aversion to cats, but
should be used under the direction of a trainer who knows how
to instruct the owner in their proper use. Electronics can
take the form of shock, sonic or citronella collars. At that
time the owner will train with electronics instead of food or
whatever other reward system was being used."

8) Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog.
Don't forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong
works better than a choke with less chance of injury to the
dog in this situation. Have the dog in a sit-stay next to
you with most of the slack out of the leash and let the cat
walk through the room and up to the dog if it wishes (this is
why you have the dog muzzled).

If the dog makes an aggressive move towards the
cat, it must be corrected strongly with both your
voice and the collar.

This is important - the correction must be physically
very strong - not a nag. (PS: not many dogs need
to be corrected at all)."

lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.

- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.

Lynn K.
Fighting". It's available from Amazon or Dogwise
or any other good source of dog-related materials.
Like your own PERSONAL REAL LIFE NETWORKING GROUP?
It's also in most public library systems.
HOWE abHOWET your own PERSONAL REAL LIFE REVIEW
as YOU POSTED RIGHT HERE lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn? YOU SEZ HIS METHOD DIDN'T WORK. REMEMBER?

Lynn K.:
"In a talk on dog-dog aggression on 5/27.
Given his propensity for repeating himself
verbatim, I'll bet he's also written it somewhere :-)

My biggest take-home from that evening actually
came from a brief conversation with Tricia999 &
some co-workers afterwards.

They confirmed my experience that "growl classes"
don't have a lasting impact on the reactivity of dog
aggressive dogs.

Our common experience was that the desensitization
only lasted for the session and didn't carry forward."

BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHAHAAA!!!
And for the record, I will once again object to your
phrase "praising a behavior in order to end it".
Yeah, but you're a pathetic MENTAL CASE and
pathological liar. REMEMBER?

"The distinction he made, and I think it's at the
heart of the issue, is that he only uses what he
calls "instructive punishment"."
It's just plain ignorant, like saying "turning the
key in the car's ignition to buy a gallon of milk".
Let's just stick to the PROBLEM that PRAISING DOGS
ENDS BAD BEHAVIORS therefore PRAISE MUST BE PUNISHMENT.

"The distinction he made, and I think it's at the
heart of the issue, is that he only uses what he
calls "instructive punishment"."
Do you really think I'd play your "dog in the sofa game"?
You COULD PRAISE the dog and he'd STOP... but you
CAN'T DO THAT on accHOWENT of YOU NEED TO HURT dogs
to stop a behavior on accHOWENT of you're a MENTAL
CASE <{); ~ ) >
You must be kidding!
The QUESTION was if the dog is diggin on
the C-HOWECH like Lucy's dog was, or if
the dog is masturbating on the C-HOWECH
like professor SCRUFF SHAKES dog does,
HOWE would YOU STOP THE BEHAVIOR?

Lynn K.:
"In a talk on dog-dog aggression on 5/27.
Given his propensity for repeating himself
verbatim, I'll bet he's also written it somewhere :-)

My biggest take-home from that evening actually
came from a brief conversation with Tricia999 &
some co-workers afterwards.

They confirmed my experience that "growl classes"
don't have a lasting impact on the reactivity of
dog aggressive dogs.

Our common experience was that the desensitization
only lasted for the session and didn't carry forward."
I don't know a single person in the world
who wouldn't do exactly the same thing -
PRAISE THE DOG?
make a sound to interrupt the behavior.
You mean an AVERSIVE... on accHOWNT of ANY THING
THAT STOPS THE BEHAVIOR IS PUNISHMENT includin PRAISE.

So, you'd PREFER an AVERSIVE than PRAISE as PUNISHEMENT.
It's what you do afterwards
You'd have to REPEAT the PUNISHMENT on
accHOWENT of punishment only temporarily
stops the BAD behavior.... so HOWE would
you deal with the BAD behavior after you
rely on AVERSIVE S-HOWENDS like "LEAVE IT"?
that's where the rubber meets the road on trainers -
That so? Seems you don't understand the METHOD
of distraction and praise to EXXXTINGUISH a BAD
behavior, lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn <{); ~ ) >
and you ain't one,
Lucy don't got to be WON lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.
Lucy has a METHOD that WORKS on ALL CRITTERS nearly
instantly. A dog is a dog and Lucy can TRAIN ANY DOG
nearly instantly using the METHOD you do not understand.
so there's absolutely no point in discussing it with you.
EXXXCEPT WON PROBLEM. You're a dog abuser and a
liar and a mental case and you can't post here
abHOWETS nodoGgamenedMOORE like your pals...
You don't understand the options or the theory
behind them and I have no interest in wasting
more time on your deliberate and willful ignorance.
The QUESTION was HOWE do you TRAIN the dog not
to dig on the C-HOWECH? Your METHOD FAILS when
your RUBBER meets the road, lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn <{); ~ ) >
Lynn K.
Pssst? Here's a TIP. The Amazing Puppy Wizard
DON'T USE RUBBERS, lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.

From: ***@claque.net (Lucy A. Afar)
Date: 30 Oct 2004 00:01:46 -0700
Local: Sat, Oct 30 2004 3:01 am

Subject: Re: Counter Cruising must stop

"The Puppy Wizard" <***@EarthLink.Net>
wrote in message <news:ihfgd.10948$***@newsread2.
news.atl.earthlink.net>...
HOWEDY leah,
So, is it cruel, for instance, to admonish or
ignore a nipping puppy?
Yes. It'd be CRUEL to "admonish" a DUMB ANIMAL
and it WOULD be CRUEL to IGNORE a NIPPING
PUPPY'S BONDING BEHAVIOR.
Praise would be apupriate.
Nothing seemed to convey to Clyde the message that his
nipping was undesirable, that it was causing pain. Nothing -
not telling him "No!" in an angry voice, not holding him and
staring in his eyes, not stopping playing with him. Nothing -
until I started to praise him.

That was like a magic formula that opened the door to his
understanding. Since then, simply saying "It hurts, Clyde"
caused him to ease the pressure of his sharp and powerful
teeth and the bite turned into just gently holding the hand
in his mouth.
In human terms, would you perceive it as cruel if
someone you love scolded you - or even worse,
ignored you the moment you tried to kiss him?
Well, that's where we lose the audience, HOWER
DOG LOVERS only appreciate SUBMISSIVE behavior.
Clyde managed to show me quite clearly what were the limits
of force. He made me realize that he wasn't going to submit
to my arbitrary use of power and that if I didn't want to
break his spirit I had to find a better way. He isn't the
kind of dog to be forced into submission and I love his
independent spirit.

Praising as a means to obtain the desired behavior gave me
the possibility to make this wonderful dog to obey because
he WANTED to, instead of because he was FORCED to do so.
Would it be frustrating?
INDEEDY.
If I was biting him every time I tried to kiss him,
I would hope to be corrected in some way.
That's the problem leah. You CANNOT "CORRECT"
in some way, the behavior of a DUMB ANIMAL.
Nor would a human put up with just ANY kind of correction. Being
reprimanded for a display of love would be very hurtful, and being
ignored would be even more so.
And if I didn't understand his language, then I believe
that rewarding the appropriate behavior (kissing back)
and ignoring the inappropriate behavior would be the
kindest and most humane way to teach me how
to get what I wanted from him.
Where's the TRAININ, leah. It'd be CRUEL to
allHOWE the dog to be BAD on accHOWENT
of you don't want to be CRUEL to him... like
your pal tommy sorenson and your MENTOR
lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn sez.
"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn.
For a human, this would probably work if the person
in case is a masochist. But for the rest of us, don't
you think that something like "I love you too, honey,
but we're doing it differently" would be more appropriate?

<snip>
What about your loved one shouting at you,
"Stop that noise!", each time when you were
trying to say something of utmost importance
and he refused to listen?
Again, if I was screaming at the top of my lungs
in a public place when there are other more
appropriate ways of communicating, then he
would need to do something to teach me the
correct way to communicate.
What about trying to listen to what I have to say,
acknowledging the fact that what I'm saying is
important and telling me that he's taking care of
the matter?

Wouldn't that put an end to my screaming, much faster
than his refusal to at least consider what I'm trying
to tell him? Especially if I firmly believe that what
I'm trying to tell him is something so vital that it
can't wait, and his failure to understand what I'm
saying is driving me nuts?
Like when Madigan was GOIN NUTS over the
GARBAGE MONSTER. That was real effective.
Would you feel safe and well and calm, if you
were to be shut inside a cage every time your
beloved was leaving you alone at home?
Do babies feel safe and well and calm when
they're shut inside a crib to protect them when
a human isn't around to supervise?
You can't be serious - what human in his/her
right mind would leave a baby alone shut in
the crib unsupervised?
No leah. THAT'S HOWE COME babies become INSANE.
Exactly. Humans, dogs, animals at the zoo... One of the
most harrowing memories I have is that of a chimp hanging
on the bars of his cage at the zoo, shaking them with all
his strength and screaming desperately.

Our eyes met for a second and the plea for help that I
could see in them, the despair of an unjustly punished
animal who didn't understand why he was subjected to such
a cruel treatment (because being caged IS cruel, Leah)
made me feel ashamed to be human.
Or do you also think cribs and playpens are cruel?
Only if the dog or child cries for WON MOMENT.
True.

Lucy

<snip>
Y***@InBox.Com
2005-08-02 01:32:55 UTC
Permalink
HOWEDY paula you MENTAL CASE,
Fine with me. I wanted to give the whole group the opportunity
to see that you can't prove that you're using Jerry's method
(because you are not),
RIGHT. OtherWIZE it'd by lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn's
or dr. dunbar's METHOD, and IT AIN'T. IN FACT, noWON
EVER HEARD of such a thing PRYOR to The Amazing Puppy
Wizard gettin 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANT SUCCESS
with ALL handlers and ALL dogs and ALL behaviors all
over the WHOWEL WILD WORLD <{); ~ ) >
you can't prove that Jerry's method is not his
intellectual property (because it is)
INDEEDY. HOWER DOGS LOVERS been sayin IT DON'T WORK

REMEMBER?
and you can't even talk about your way of training dogs
of fear of contradicting yourself - even when dealing
with a simple puppy training matter.
Thank you for beautifully proving my point.
What you have proven to the entire group
You mean the LYING DOG ABUSING PUNK THUG COWARD
MENTAL CASES, like yourself, you dog and child
abusing psychopath?
is that you don't listen,
BWEEEEEEEEAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!

You mean Lucy DON'T BELIEVE LIARS and DOG
ABUSING MENTAL CASES like yourself, paula.
you don't know when CC is appropriate and
when OC is appropriate,
OC MEANS HURT THE DOG, paula. HURTING IS NEVER APUPRIATE.
you can't explain how you can get extinction
and increased behaviors from the same praising
technique
BWEEEEEEEEEEAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAAA!!!

DON'T MATTER HOWE YOU "EXXXPLAIN" IT, paula.
THE METHOD WORKS AS INSTRUCTED and GETS 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANT SUCCESS and you
DOG ABUISING MENTAL CASES get EMBARRASSED on
accHOWENT of YOU PREFER HURTING INTIMDIATING
and MURDERING dogs and callin it RESCUE.
and that you don't understand the history of dog training.
DON'T NEED TO UNDERSTAND PAST MISTAKES, paula
you freakin MENTAL CASE. What's HISTORY got to
do with a NEW METHOD that NO WON EVER HEARD of
despite that it's PLAGIARIZED from sources NO
WON CAN IDENTIFY, paula?
You have also proven that you refuse to check into it.
You mean, the DEFINITION of OC / CC ?

THAT'S INSANE. IT's IRRELEVENT. IT'S A SMOKE SCREEN.
You might learn from actually taking the whole
video in context that you are quoting a section
on apples to explain how someone feels about
oranges, for example.
OR Lucy MIGHT TAKE your punk thug coward mental
case pal lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn's OWN WORDS
DESCRIBING HER EVENING with dr. dunbar and his
AGGRESSION TRAINING SEMINAR:

lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn talkin abHOWET her
I spent this evening at a small group session on
dog-human aggression hosted by Open Paw. Ian
Dunbar was the speaker
That's DOCTOR ian dunbar, dog behavior fraudS.
and was very clear that he uses P.
You mean P as in PUNISHMENT or P as in PRAISE?

Or P as in POO POO?

We're gonna quit using CONfHOWENDING scrabble
terms and RELY on INTELLIGENCE and HONESTY,
things you've YET to learn abHOWET cause you'll
do and say ANY THING to defend your alleged right
to hurt and murder dogs as you PREFER.
The distinction he made, and I think it's at the
heart of the issue, is that he only uses what he
calls "instructive punishment".
IOW MOORE DHOWEble talk. lying "I LOVE KOEHELR"
lynn REPORTED his "METHOD" DIDN'T WORK for her
and her PALS who were at that "grHOWEL class":

Lynn K.:
In a talk on dog-dog aggression on 5/27.
Given his propensity for repeating himself
verbatim, I'll bet he's also written it somewhere :-)

My biggest take-home from that evening actually
came from a brief conversation with Tricia999 &
some co-workers afterwards.

They confirmed my experience that "growl classes"
don't have a lasting impact on the reactivity of dog
aggressive dogs.

Our common experience was that the desensitization
only lasted for the session and didn't carry forward.

As an aside, you might want to get a copy of the
little training manual they are using for shelter
volunteers at www.openpaw.org

The stuff on teaching people how to get into the
kennel and get an excited dog out for a walk is
excellent. Lynn K.

So you see DOG LOVERS, YOUR METHODS DON'T
WORK and YOUR EXXXPERTS ARE FRAUDS LIARS
DOG ABUSERS COWARDS and ACTIVE LONG TERM
INCURABLE MENTAL CASES and IT'S IN BLACK
AND WHITE and html.

But that's not the BEST part of havin you settin
right here on The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual Forums,
leah. The BEST part is bein able to QUOTE your
own words of your SUCCESSES HURTING INTIMIDATING
and MURDERING innocent critters.
I gave you the reference I wanted you to have - Ian
Dunbar's video - because I didn't want to play the
word game about "That's not really the same thing as
what JH is doing" with you.
BWEEEEEEJAAJAJAJJAJAJAAA!!!

CAN YOU SAY LYING DOG ABUSING MENTAL CASE, paula?

lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.

- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.

Lynn K.

"Unfortunately, some confrontation is necessary,
just to be able to handle the dogs. For example,
we need to crate train a dog immediately because
they are usually in need of medical care and they
are in foster homes with other dogs.
It's a safety necessity," lynn k.

"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn QUOTING koehler.
--
Paula
Here's some GOOD NEWS! YOU AIN'T GOTTA SAY
IT, all you gotta do is READ HER OWN POSTED
CASE HISTORY you freakin MENTAL CASE:

"You Lying Sack Of Dung.When Have I Ever Said
Anything About Using A Prong Collar, Or Any Collar
Correction At All, To Make Dogs Friendly To House
Cats? Don't bother. The answer is never," lying "I
LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.

lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn writes about kats and dogs:

"This Article Is Something We've Put Together
For SF GSD Rescue"

From: Lynn Kosmakos (***@home.com)
Subject: Re: I have a dog he has cats
Date: 1999/11/20
How can I get him to quit chasing the cats.
Okay - this is going to be a bit loooong - Lynn K.

"Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog. Don't
forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong works
better than a choke with less chance of injury to the dog in
this situation.

Electronics can be used to create an aversion to cats, but
should be used under the direction of a trainer who knows how
to instruct the owner in their proper use. Electronics can
take the form of shock, sonic or citronella collars. At that
time the owner will train with electronics instead of food or
whatever other reward system was being used."

8) Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog.
Don't forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong
works better than a choke with less chance of injury to the
dog in this situation. Have the dog in a sit-stay next to
you with most of the slack out of the leash and let the cat
walk through the room and up to the dog if it wishes (this is
why you have the dog muzzled).

If the dog makes an aggressive move towards the
cat, it must be corrected strongly with both your
voice and the collar.

This is important - the correction must be physically
very strong - not a nag. (PS: not many dogs need
to be corrected at all)."

Lynn K. wrote:

"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in
one shelter.) But their ability to set their own
schedules and duties causes a great deal of
scheduling overhead.

And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
volunteers get the meaningful experience that
they work for.

Someone has to be responsible for that
Volunteer Program, and it is best done
by a non-volunteer."

Lynn K.
---------------------------------

"I worked with one shelter where I bathed and groomed
every adoptable dog on intake. I frankly felt that the
effort/benefit equation was not balanced for some of the
older/ill poodle/terrier mixes we got in badly matted condition.

Should I have refused to groom them?

Or even more pertinent - I was one of the people who
had to make the euthanasia decisions at that shelter."

Lynn K.

Baghdad Bob <Baghdadbob> wrote in message
<news:***@TeraNews>...

Lynn, looks like he got you there if these quotes are true.

In the posts below you take responsibility for making those calls.

In your post above, you state you do not make those calls.

Which one is it?


WORDS OF WISDOM
from our own Lynn Kosmakos
1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every day
For Twenty Years

I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM

"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder (manic-depression)
requiring 1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every day.
I, also, care about dogs and use this forum to learn more,
while happily sharing pertinent information I have learned.

But if I were ever to post such sh*t, I would hope that every
other reader of this group would be rightfully outraged."

"Community is an evolutionary thing that we earn
the right to participate in by observing the easily
understood rules and contributing to in constructive ways."

Lynn K.

-----------------------------------------

LYNN K. and LOIS E, and a BiLateral, BiPolar
conversation on Mental problems. LYNN AND
LOIS Almost 50 years on mental illness medications
combined

-----------------------------------------
But I think what Lois was referring to was the fact that
Darlene actually stated at some point that she was
bipolar--and, IIRC, that meds did not work for her--so she
was prone to major-league ups and downs and sudden
enthusiasms..
"It wasn't that meds didn't work for her - she wouldn't take
them. I particularly remember a comment she made about
scarey side effects of Lithium. Hardly. After 17 years on
it, I think I'm qualified to say that the very low risk of
any side effect is far less frightening than the very real
dangers of life without it."

Lynn K.
-----------------------------------------

LYNN K. and the UNQUIET MIND
----------------------------------------

From: Lynn Kosmakos (***@home.com) Subject: Re: Where is
Darlene? Date: 1999/09/03
I know I am totally off topic here, but have you read
"The Unquiet Mind"?
Yeah. It's interesting, but kind of watered down for the
mass market, if you know what I mean. There's really quite
a lot of good work out there and decent research. Thank
God.

Lynn K.
---------------------------------------

MOTHER AND CHILD REUNION "KUCKOO!!
CUCKOO!!!" MOTHER (LOIS E.) 22 YEARS on
TRICYCLICS, DAUGHTER BIPOLAR...

YOU DO THE MATH

"What's really terrific, is now days you can say proudly, 'I
take anti-depressives'"

-------------------------------------

From: Gary & lois Edwards (***@bmi.net) Subject: Re: Where
is Darlene? Date: 1999/09/02

BEEN ON TRICYCLICS FOR ABOUT 22 YEARS

"I don't take lithium, but I've been on trycyclics for about
22 years. Been there, done that, have the t-shirt to prove
it. What's really terrific, is now days you can say proudly,

"I take anti-depressives". Back when I started taking them
it was seen as something shameful. If you cut your leg off,
and were lying there with a bleeding stump, you'd never let
the word depressed, pass your lips, or the doc's would say,
"You're depressed, on medication? Well, can't have any pain
meds.....you could become addicted."

The good old days. I actually had a Great Aunt who's father
locked her in her room back in the twenties because she was
simple. A shame that medication probably would have helped
her live a normal life.

No Denna, I was just saying with Darlene's personality,
she has a way of making grandiose plans when at the top of
her manic cycle....as does my daughter. I wasn't saying that
anyone with problems could be counted on to be
irresponsible."

Lois E.

-------------------------------------
YourConscience
2005-08-02 18:19:12 UTC
Permalink
HOWEDY Lucy,

The Amazing Puppy Wizard is SHORE dr. ian dunbar
will be eager to see and be HUGELY PLEASED to have
the opportunity to respond to you HOWETING HIM as
a dog abusing fraud, accordin to WHAT YOU'VE LEARNED
abHOWET dog behavior RIGHT HERE on The Amazing Puppy
Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual Forums
And SCHOOL Of HARD KNOCKS And HUMAN BEHAVIOR RESEARCH
LABORATORIES (rec.pets.dogs.behavior,rec.pets.dogs.rescue,
rec.pets.dogs.breeds,rec.pets.dogs.misc,rec.pets.dogs.
health,alt.med.veterinary,rec.pets.cats.health+behav)
and by QUOTING HIS OWN WRITTEN WORDS, Lucy <{); ~ ) >

IN FACT, The Amazing Puppy Wizard will send this
post directly to dr ian dunbar for his opportunity
to DEFEND HIS MALICIHOWES INEFFECTIVE METHODS or
ADMIT he's an INCOMPETENT FRAUD, HOWEver he PREFERS
to DEAL WITH IT <{): ~ ) >

PERHAPS HOWER GOOD DOCTOR will IGNORE such BAD
BEHAVIOR and allHOWE us to FIGHT IT HOWET, so
long as it's NOT TOO MUCH for him to BEAR in the
interim whilst we WORK IT HOWET and DISCOVER HOWE
COME DOGS FEAR ANY THING, as ALL temperament and
behavior problems ARE THE SAME SAME SAME SAME,
according to The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual <{): ~ ) >

Here's his address and website. DON'T EXXXPECT
him to REPLY on accHOWENT of HIS REPUTATION and
CAREER DEPENED ON PERPETUATING HIS INEFFECTIVE
METHOD and DEFENDING IT with LIES, blamin the
DOG for BEING PUNISHED CRATED BRIBED INTIMIDATED
and IGNORED when IT is AFRAID... just like HOWE
HOWER DOG LOVERS do when THEY GET CORNERED.

***@dunbar-i-l.demon.co.uk
http://www.dunbar-i-l.demon.co.uk/philosophy/

LikeWIZE, if you got a minute, PLEASE ask gil
minter white WHAT HAPPEND to the SCIENTIFIC
DOCUMENTATION The Amazing Puppy Wizard POSTED
to her TRAINING LESSONS SALES website.

ASK HER if she's TRYING to REPRESS the TRUTH
in order to PRESEVE HER INCOME from HURTING
INTIMDIATING and MURDERING INNOCENT DUMB CRITTERS.

Here the RESULTS of believing these self serving
DOG ABUSING MENTAL CASES who PROFIT from HURTING
BRIBING CRATING SURGICALLY SEXUALLY MUTILATING
and INTIMIDATING innocent DUMB critters in their
PROFITABLE BUSINESS of SAVING DOGS from their own
needles for SIMPLE behavior problems CAUSED BY
MISHANDLING:

lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn and her pals
includin tricia9999 have RECENTLY BEEN to
dr dunbar's "seminars" and SAID HIS METHODS
DID NOT WORK for DOG AGGRESSION:

From: Lynn K. (***@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: What would you do?
Date: 2004-06-29 23:07:10 PST
I don't think "pure positive" is a reality.
Positive trainers use punishment... it
is usually P- though.
Oh, I think "pure positive" is a reality --- but "pure
positive training" is not. I know plenty of people
who DO use pp only. They just aren't achieving
much training.

I spent this evening at a small group session on
dog-human aggression hosted by Open Paw.

Ian Dunbar was the speaker and was very clear
that he uses P+. The distinction he made, and
I think it's at the heart of the issue, is that he only
uses what he calls "instructive punishment".

If the dog is not given a clear picture of what
response is required, the P+ is meaningless.

Lynn K.

In a talk on dog-dog aggression on 5/27.
Given his propensity for repeating himself
verbatim, I'll bet he's also written it somewhere :-)

My biggest take-home from that evening actually
came from a brief conversation with Tricia999 &
some co-workers afterwards.

They confirmed my experience that "growl classes"
don't have a lasting impact on the reactivity of dog
aggressive dogs.

Our common experience was that the desensitization
only lasted for the session and didn't carry forward.

As an aside, you might want to get a copy of the
little training manual they are using for shelter
volunteers at www.openpaw.org

The stuff on teaching people how to get into the
kennel and get an excited dog out for a walk is
excellent.

Lynn K.

So you see DOG LOVERS, YOUR METHODS DON'T
WORK and YOUR EXXXPERTS ARE FRAUDS LIARS
DOG ABUSERS COWARDS and ACTIVE LONG TERM
INCURABLE MENTAL CASES and IT'S IN BLACK
AND WHITE and html.
I have been trying for the last 18 months to help my
dog who became fear aggressive at 18 month of age.
I do not know what started the problem but he came
aggressive first with dogs and then began lunging and
snapping at people. Until this time he loved everyone
and could play with any dog. He was well socialized
ad I took him with me everywhere.
At 13 months he passed the Canine Good Citizens
Test except he could let me leave him. I had used
clicker training to teach him manners and tricks but
it was not working on his aggression problem.
I took him to vets who suggested a low protein diet,
trainers who charged $800 to only make him worse.
They tried to use a prong collar and he froze, urinated
and tried to climb on my head to help him. they then
suggested a shock collar I knew this approach was not
working as he was becoming more aggressive.
I took him to an animal behaviorist with Ph.D. 400 miles
away who told me to "KEEP HIM SAFE" and read a book
on the fearful canine. I tried another trainer who tried to
use a nylon chock collar but it only made him worse.
I read hundreds of books,"CULTURE CLASH", "DOG
ARE FROM NEPTUNE", "THE OTHER END OF THE
LEASH", ETC looking for help. We finally went to Purdue
University Small Animal Behavior Clinic and they said he had
fear aggression, punishment would not work, use the gentle
leader and when out walking and he got stressed have the
people stop until he could get in control using treats,and work
on clicker training.
At that point I knew more about clicker training and using the
gentle leader than they did! Nothing was working--he would
not come when I called him and would run away when I tried
to catch him. I was afraid to walk him even in the neighborhood
as we had become that "mean dog and women who hasn't
trained her dog"
I went to four trainers in both Michigan and Florida who
were trainer/specialists in aggression and the last two were
so afraid of him they could not approach him. No one said
I should give up on him and kill him but they would say
"You have to realize he is dangerous and you are
responsible for him."
You got LUCKY, Linda... They coulda got Sunshine
DEAD on us. Damned near did... too.
As last resort I tried the internet again--I had had on
going discussions with trainers from Triple Crown and Dr
Meister with out any help-and I found the ad to Doggy Do
Right and messaged Jerry to ask if this might help my dog.
He said solving the aggression problem was EZ but I could
not believe him even when I downloaded the manual.
The name of the method was right I was at my Wits End.
I had been working for 18 month!
Using the can sound three time he came, and still comes
from anywhere with the command-"comegoodboy" Next
I tried the can when walking him--when he saw a dog three
blocks away he went off-lunging and snapping-I used the
can sound and he looked at me like uhn?
I used it three more times and we got to the other dog-
-the looked at me wagging his tail--the other person
looked at me like why are shaking that can but just walked
on by.
When ever I try to explain about the sound people look at
me like "you must be out of your mind"
The results can make a believer!!!
Three weeks since beginning the Wits End Training
Manual program I walked him without the gentle leader
in a busy shopping area with many dogs.
He just seemed to not notice any one.
When people talked to him or ask his name he would
look at then and wag his tail and let then pet him.
I still can not believe the change in him--we can now
enjoy life out in public.
If I had not found the Wits End method I know there
was no hope for him and he would have hurt someone
Through all this he never growled at me, guarded his
toys or food or showed any sign of aggression with me.
My goal is to get the message out to all dog lovers that
dogs can be trained fast, easily and problems solved with
out force, pain, food or anything but sound and praise!!!!
I know most people would have given up on him a long time
ago but he was and is my life. Solving the problem was EZ
but only with the right approach-sound and praise.
I know because I tried everything else and nothing worked!!!
================================

From: Linda Daniel
To: Jerry Howe
Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 1:06 AM
Subject: Re: - Re: dog aggression

Thanks for writing--I would be happy to do almost anything
to get your approach out to dog owners as I know it would
save so many lives. I know at times I was so frustrated I
thought of giving up on Sunshine but of course I never would
have but many people would have. The world just does not
know you can train a dog in just a few sessions and actually
solve problems.

We will be here until late April and we really have no plans-
-just to enjoy the warmth and sun of Florida, so any time
you could meet us would be great. I drive so I would be
happy to come to you anytime anywhere!

We went to Celebration today and two little poodles got
right into his face and he just sat there--I GOT a little
scared but he handled it just fine.--a couple of times people
would ask his name and want to pet him and he just went
to them tail wagging and rolled over for them rub his tummy.

He really just is not concerned about people passing, even
those on rollerblades! I have always used a gentle leader
in public but he spent most of time rubbing his face on the
grass--today I used his collar and he was so much happier!!

Only problem is he will stop to smell and I can not get
stopped soon enough to keep the leash loose. He never
pulled ahead of me but when he gets into smelling I have
a hard time getting him going--at times I think he could
smell a blade of grass for 10 minutes.

I can never thank you enough for giving Sunshine back!!!!!

I wrote to Purdue and told them about him being able to
walk in a crowd with out the /gentle leader and not having
a problem with other people and dogs.

I told them their advice did not work. Their advice was
to use the gentle leader at all times and when he was
around people or dogs to have him sit and reward with
treats--one really good suggestions was to have people
coming toward us stop when he got stressed or aroused
and not move until we backed away-

- can you just see me yelling at people to stop on the street
until I get his attention with treats.

They also suggested the possibility of using drugs-prozac-
but thought he was too dangerous as the drug would make
him less fearful and then he might attack or become more
sure of himself and become dominate aggressive. Just had
to share their great advice with you but I am sure you have
heard it all--even I am becoming an expert on bad advice.

----------------------------------

From: Lindalee
To: Jerry Howe
Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 2:37 PM
Subject: Re: dog aggression - Today Seemed Like A Miracle -
WELCOME TO WITS' END DOG TRAINING!

Sunshine is still acting like a new dog!

Saw a dog today and "good boy-" worked along with calling him-
came the first time every time. Not even a sound out of him.

Think it is hard for him but he never even seemed to think
about going off-reacting.

The word come has no affect on him just the phrase--Sunshine
come goodboy.

From: Jerry Howe
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 7:17 PM
To: Lindalee
Subject: Re: dog aggression - Today Seemed Like A Miracle -
WELCOME TO WITS' END DOG TRAINING!


From: Lindalee
To: Jerry Howe
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 4:57 PM
Subject: Re: dog aggression

HOWEDY Linda,
I am not sure what happened but after two days
Sunshine walked with me not sniffing, pulling or
going his own way. In two and a half years he
has never walked without his nose to the ground-
-today he walked closer too the cart than ever
before and turned to look at me every few minutes-
-in past with treats and pleading he only looked
toward me when I had a treat in my hand.
It is hard to believe he has really changed so quickly.
Now I have several questions--After one time with
throwing the can he has always come on the first call-
-do I need to try to set him up to not come so we can
do four times in different places?
Yup. You've got to generalize the come command to make
it 100% reliable. MISTAKES ARE GOOD. You want him to
make a few mistakes so we can get the sound associated
with the command.
I have not tried to call him off leash outside as that is
the time he is does not come.
O.K. You know to do the HOT & Cold and Family Leadership
Exercises and you'll have a perfect come command in a couple
fifteen minute sessions.
On the leash he came on the first call today even when he
was starting to explore the leaves etc.
Excellent. We discussed his penchant for eating leaves and
dirt off the ground.
He walked past several people today with hardly a second
glance-

We also discussed that he was rather aggressive, and you
were becoming very concerned about being able to keep him.
he did see a cat about 10 feet away and when I called him
the first time he did not respond but when I used the can he
ran over to me and seemed to forget about the cat.
PERFECT. Next time you'll probably not need the sound.
Just remember to vary the origin of the sound each time,
day in to day out, the sequence never breaks.
Now what do I do when he sees another dog?
You'll tell him GOOD BOY and prepare to make the sound
and praise if he continues looking, and if that fails, you'll
ask him to come, keeping in mind the sequence of the
commands with sound and the distract/praise techniques.

You'll get used to thinking that fast in a couple more days,
no problem.
Although the calling him the four times seems easy it was
very hard-
Yes, it takes a bit of a knack to get it just right, but if
you fail, not to worry, you'll be able to get it right the
next time.

We don't lose points for "do overs" as long as we get the
pup under control fast and EZ. That's HOWE COME that
dependable come command is so necessary.
-I had a friend which was good since I had a lot of trouble
calling the right way and using the can at the same time.
Yes, I recommended you may want a friend to help because
of your disability.
I found out I had been calling him many times each time
I called him to come.
Right. Should be about a second between requests and
the sounds on the second and fourth commands and move
off into the FPLX if that fails, and continue the technique.

EZ, huh???
I am still working on the leash it is really hard when you
are not standing upright as the leash can not be as loose
since it drags on the ground-
Yeah, I don't know if you're able, but do try to handle the
lead exactly as instructed. It'll feel uncomfortable for a
few days, but we don't want that lead tangling and
accidentally pullin on him.
-I am so worried without the leash around my hand
Psst! If you've got fair strength in your hands, let me
do the worrying for you... O.K.?
but I am not sure if it was the leash,
Well, you know I told you it was the overcontrol of
the lead that triggers positive thigmotaxis, the opposition
reflex.
telling him good boy everytime he looked at me
That ALWAYS works. All my Mrs. got to do is tell me
good boy and I'll do anything she asks. Hey? I think
I just figgered out HOWE COME she always gets
her way with me...
or the cans,
Any sound will suffice, even an extraneous and coincidentally
but well timed sound will work, maybe even BETTER.
but today seemed like a miracle.
WELCOME TO WITS' END DOG TRAINING!
I told a friend about this approach and they thought you
were on "Today" this spring--was it you?
Naaah. There's nobody that has such fast EZ safe gentle
methods. I'll be on TV soon enough with my Doggy Do Right
(And Kitty Will And A Rooster Did And A Cockatoo Or Two
Did Too) machine.

But that's just gonna give me the floor to discuss the state
of the art of the animal behavior industry.

Would you do me a favor? If you're on the internet, I'd sure
appreciate it if you'd repost this to the groups, a lot of
people are saying terrible things about me and tellin folks
reports like yours, are FORGERIES by ME.

Thank you for being a good student.

Yours, Jerry.

From: Jerry Howe
Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 10:24 PM
To: Lindalee
Subject: Re: dog aggression

Dog training isn't LUCK. You'll do perfect or I'll get the
heel outta this business... Yours, Jerry.


From: Lindalee
To: Jerry Howe
Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 4:32 PM
Subject: Re: dog aggression

Will let you know how it goes!!!--thanks for the encouragement


From: Jerry Howe
Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 6:35 AM
To: Lindaleee
Subject: Re: dog aggression
From: Lindalee
To: Jerry Howe
Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 12:16 AM
Subject: Re: dog aggression

HOWEDY Linda,
I got your message tonight and have printed
your manual--will start tomorrow--
Excellent.
I am truly at my wits end!!!
Me too, but not with your problem. This one's EZ!
Today he bite me twice breaking the skin when he was in a
"rage" .
He's gonna be EZ. He's not even thinking about you when he
bites. He's just overexcited trying to PROTECT you. That'll
diminish immediately through simply handling the lead
properly, gettin the control and attention through the praise
conditioning, and distract/praising his aggressive thoughts
before he gets out of control.

EZ stuff.
Once when he saw another dog-ran toward the dog
Sound/praise and repeat as necessary. Just remember
to always vary the direction the sound comes from. You
might need a helper to produce the alternate sounds in
time.
and pulled me down-
In a couple days that'll cause him to come back to you.
-since I do not walk or move very well, falling down is
a major problem as I can not get up without much help.
He'll straighten out in a couple days of EZ work.
He bite me when my hand went close to his mouth while I was
falling.
Yes, but he wasn't conscious of YOU, he's in a fury protecting
you.
The second time was when we were going down the street-
-I use an electric cart
Excellent. You'll be able to handle him EZ like that.
and a man walked toward us and He saw him before I did
That would complicate and slow things down.
and took off-
In a couple days you'll have the control to stop him after
he's started.
-lunging barking and snapping again I got my hand within
reach of his mouth and he bite me-
That was predictable!
-he bites what every is close.
At least he's consistent. That's GOOD!
When he is not in a rage he will let me doing anything-
Of course. He sounds PERFECT. This is the kind of
dog I'd go out of my way to get for myself...
-take is food away, touch him anywhere, or do anything to
him-
Perfect.
-and he will never even raise his lip but when he goes
off he is in another world.
Yeah, kinda like me...
You are my last hope-
You're gonna be EZ.
-he works to help me at home--he picks up anything on the
floor, closes doors, picks up the daily paper and will stand to
brace me when I stand up on my bad days.
He sounds like a great dog!
He waits for me to go out the door first and will wait until
I call him to come in and close the door.
He'll learn the same manners when in pubic.
He really helps me everyday and if I didn't have him life
would much harder.
We'll fix him up in a couple days of EZ work.
But I know if we can not solve the "rage" problem
Pssst! It's already in the bag...
he will bite someone other than me and will have to be
killed.
Not to worry, that'll be past history in a couple days.
Your method seems so simple
It is. Just follow the techniques and ask me if you
need any help. I've got all kinds of fast EZ solutions
for any problem you could encounter.
after all we have tried it does not seem possible to
change his behavior easily-
Everything you've tried has relied on bribes force
and confrontation.
-but I will start trying tomorrow.
And instead of trying to force him to stay in control,
you'll PRAISE his first aggressive thought and he'll
move in close to YOU to protect you, not charge at
others. He'll learn FAST that you want the aggression
and he'll want to use it BEST for YOU, so he'll do
EVERY THING you ask the first time.

I'd LOVE to have a hundred dogs just like him today.
I use a Halti so he does not pull me over-usually!
Right, but here again, you're relying on some degree
of force to control him. That will ALWAYS trigger
the OPPOSITE of what we want, telling him to be
aggressive, not to pay attention to you and your safety.

Once he sees THAT, you're gonna need a shoe horn
to PRY him AWAY from you.

In fact, when you WANT him to attack someone all you'll
have to do is let him see someone and gently pull back
on his collar without sayin nuthin, and that'll set him off...
but have never used punishment, choke collar or any
other "corrections"
Good, that'll make it REAL EZ to teach him my methods.
I taught him all his tricks and tasks with a clicker and
food.
Fine. We'll forget the treats and use the click differently
for our puporses.
Thanks for your help in advance-
CONGRATULATIONS in advance...
-I pray your method will be our salvation!!!
No need to. It's already DONE.
Linda.
Do me a favor? If you could keep a record of our
discussions and your work with your pup, and
send it in to the news groups I participate in, it'd
be a great benefit and inspiration for others in the
same or similar situations.

Welcome to Wits' End Dog Training.

Yours, Jerry.

================================


From: Lindalee
To: Jerry Howe
Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 11:43 AM

Subject: Re: dog aggression - Today Seemed Like A Miracle -

WELCOME TO WITS' END DOG TRAINING!

Will try it today and post how well this system works.
We went to a dog class that I had enrolled in for
resocialization--getting him to not lunge and try to
attack every dog he sees, we were at the third class
and I forgot the Halti but he was relaxed and had no
problem with any of the seven dogs-

-in the past he would shake and after a little while
turn away from the dogs and look at the wall. Saturday
he wanted to play with the dogs--he actually pulled
toward the dogs- kinda jumped around like he use to do
before he became aggressive- when he got close to another
dog.

Teacher was impressed with him but thought it was from
her class--I didn't tell her anything different-she had
tried but it sure was not working.

Today on our walk a dog went by and he alerted but did
not move toward the dog and when I called him he actually
came with his tail wagging and forget about the dog.

I have told everyone I see about your dog training-
-all my friends and neighbors know I have been so worried
and frustrated with Sunshine's behavior-infact some would
turn around and go the other way so as not to get close to us.

If people knew how easy it could be to get a dog to come
and listen to you there would be a lot less dogs in shelters.

I know I didn't know what to do and was afraid I would have
to kill him if he bite someone even though I loved him so
much.


From: Jerry Howe
Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 3:10 PM
Subject: Re: dog aggression - Today Seemed Like A Miracle -
WELCOME TO WITS' END DOG TRAINING!

HOWEDY Linda,

Your words are music to my ears, and are my
sunshine.

Thank you for being a good student.
I'm available any time you have a
question or whatever.

Welcome to Wits' End Dog Training.

Yours, Jerry.

================================
Please note that Lucy didn't quote Dunbar.
Lucy doesn't have unlimited posting time, but that's not an excuse.
http://www.takingthelead.co.uk/2/ChatHist/Ian%20Dunbar.htm
In order to make my point clear, I've underscored his actions whenever
<<[Gill123]
Well Elaine cannot come tonight, so may I ask her question? .. She
would like to know how to treat a dog, male, that is marking in the
house?
[IanDunbar]
Back to step one and housetrain it. _Confine_ it when away to an area
that's ok to wee in and then _keep_it_closely _confined_ when at home
(on leash or in a crate) so it can not mark. And_take_it_out_on
_regular_ intervals for marking plus _food_ rewards_and_praise. After a
week of that let dog have supervised run of house and
_when_it's_thinking_about marking instructive_reprimand_Outside!
[...]
With aggression the more important consideration is WHAT the dogs are
doing .....in this case they are doing something which is quite normal
AS LONG AS NO DAMAGE IS DONE so we have several options - 1.
_ignore_them_and let them work it out -which I generally do for short
and minor spats or 2. if it goes on for more than 3 seconds
I_tell_the_dogs_"OUTSIDE!"_ However, I should mention that we only have
these options because the dogs are only squabbling and not hurting each
other
[...]
For a dog digging in my garden (I love gardening) I would put it on
emergency treatment and even _feed_it out of its digging pit - put its
dinner in a paper bag and bury it. However, usually digging, garden
barking and escaping mean that the dog/puppy is left outside for long
periods unattended
[...]
A doggy run built around his digging pit is better especially if you do
things like _stuff_Kongs_and_put_them_in_the_digging_pit and then go
out with the dog
but_shut_the_gate_of_his_run_with_the_dog_on_the_outside_
[pyr]
the doggy run part sounds OK for some - but I wonder about Quinn - he
does not like to be confined
[IanDunbar]
let the dog think about that for a while - stuffed Kongs inside, me
outside soon creates a desire for the dog to WANT to be confined in its
play area
[pyr]
our kitchen is large in comparison to some dog runs and he went bonkers
when we would confine him there right now I am working on getting him
to accept a crate - it is a long, slow process
[IanDunbar]
The most important thing to teach a new puppy or dog is to ENJOY being
left at home alone - Sad but true
[heartpups]
too sad
[IanDunbar]
Accepting a crate is simple - Same technique, feed the dog in the crate
[pyr]
here is what I have been doing -
[IanDunbar]
make a big deal of mixing up a_wonderful_meal_ and
_put_it_in_the_crate_ and _lock_ the door with the _dog_on_the_outside_
make the dog BEG to be let in
[pyr]
he readily accepts his food in the crate - don't close the door, or go
away, though
[IanDunbar]
Feed each meal in installments so dog learns I love being in crate
meals, stuffed Kongs
[...]
_ignore_the_dog_ when he's free and read to him from the newspaper when
he is in the crate
[Bazzer]
Hello Ian, It's Barry Eaton. I'd like to know your views on verbal
commands on aggressive dogs in growl classes?
[IanDunbar]
Barry HELLO, Longtime no see, Don't understand the question Barry
[Bazzer]
Hi ya. Yes indeed. I don't believe in lead jerking but vocal commands
have no effect on some dogs. What do you suggest?
[IanDunbar]
Don't understand the question Barry, OK
[pyr]
what are growl classes?
[Bazzer]
Classes where aggressive dogs get together to try to sort out their
problems
[IanDunbar]
The whole thing about growl classes are that we have checked out all
the dogs and the fight, and they are obnoxious but have not caused harm
- not sent a dog to the vet the growl class therefore offers a safe
forum (without embarrassment) for the owners and dogs to learn two
things -1. How to control their dogs around other dogs all of the
owners will learn this
[Bazzer]
That's about right. But they're wearing muzzles - just in case. What
would you suggest if they lunge at each other
[IanDunbar]
2. some dogs will also learn to play off-leash, so we muzzle them
(mainly for the owners sake) because none of these dogs have ever
bitten and then we see what happens because the dogs have been tested
to be safe we have many options
[pawsnlearn]
Do you hold them indoors or outdoors??
[Bazzer]
But if they lunge at each other while on lead, what should the owner
do?
[IanDunbar]
to let them growl or scrap it out or to intervene - The best way to
stop lunging or any obnoxious behavior is to
_praise_the_dog_when_it_stops_
[Bazzer]
Not shout or jerk the lead? How would they intervene?
[IanDunbar]
we can not do this in normal everyday living but we can in the growl
class
[Gill123]
so a "set up" so to speak?
[IanDunbar]
By setting up a troubleshooting situation with one dog on leash and
still and the other 7 walking by the dog will be exposed to the same
dogs over and over the first few passes will be horrendous but what
else is new we just _ignore_the_dog's_tantrums_and_wait - soon, usually
after five or six passes the dog's enthusiasm for growling and lunging
[Bazzer]
What about tethering the dog to a pipe or something sturdy and the
owner moving away when he lunges?
[IanDunbar]
if we punish the dog for lunging or growling from the outset the
approach of another dog becomes the contingent cue for our punishment -
hence the dog will growl MORE - Once
_we_have_praised_the_dog_for_not_lunging_ and for being quiet, this
will not be the case and so then you may _reprimand_if_you_like_ I
would never jerk or tighten the leash when doing this - no longer
anyway - I used to but it just makes things worse
[...]
Fear problem - _food_ as always - To improve your dog's social life -
improve your own, what I mean by that is invite someone over every
night to _hand_feed_ your dog its dinner AND to train your dog for you.
One of the best temperament tests is to offer a dog food
[...]
Firstly teach the dog to give a chew toy or bone _for_a_treat_ then
return the toy/bone and repeat. After teaching thank you teach pick up
and give in the living room put the tennis ball on the floor and say
thank you - some dogs get it right away, if so do this before all good
times -have the dog pick up something and give it to you _for_a_treat_.
If dog does not catch on right away try a clicker type approach (with
or without the clicker). Then try it in the park, pick up and give,
pick up and give over and over with the dog on leash..... Then let the
dog off leash and roll the ball and say thank you - this usually works
but here is a much better way.............Go out with two dogs your
reluctant retriever and one that retrieves well - Throw both balls but
_only_one_treat_ for the first dog back, it's the quickest way to
improve slow or no retrieves that I know of
[...]
When I tried this with my malamute I used to really tease her and
_show_her_the_treat_ before giving it to Oso - Now if Oso gets it
first, Phnonie will intercept and steal the frisbee to give it to me
for the treat
[...]
[Tina1234]
I would like to know how to stop -self reinforced barking. i.e. one dog
barking at the rest of the pack when they are resting
[IanDunbar]
I would probably _feed_ each of the other dogs one piece of kibble for
every time the other dog barked. I love doing things like that - gets
attention quicker than anything then tell the barker to settle down and
shush and after a while give all dogs a piece of kibble>>
<< The best way to stop lunging or any obnoxious behavior is to praise
the dog when it stops>>
Do you see what Ian Dunbar is saying here, Lynn? To STOP the obnoxious
behavior praise the dog WHEN it STOPS. Not BEFORE. Are you still
claiming that Dunbar is doing as Jerry does? Or the words "when" and
"before" are synonyms in your doublespeak?
She picked up a 3rd party
summary of points he made.- and even misquoted that, picking up a
statement that wasn't even about what Dunbar has to say!
Can you tell me please what exactly have I misquoted?
She's lazy as well as ignorant.
But at least SHE can understand what she reads. And SHE can back her
words with a reference that can be critically examined.
I'm done with her passive aggressive
act.
"Passive aggressive"? Oh, you haven't seen anything yet! In fact, I've
been gentle as a lamb so far, exercising my biting inhibition to a
great extent. But you're as tempting as a slow plump bunny: as someone
put it so nicely, "too coward to fight and too fat to run". Almost too
easy for my high prey drive.
Her dogs deserve better.
They certainly do; but it's me that they've got, with all my
shortcomings. Such as my ignorance about how to use a choke chain or an
e-collar, among other things.
So, under the given circumstances, who do you think is doing a better
service to my dogs: you, who keep telling me what a bad girl I am but
cannot offer any training help? Or Jerry, whose training method has
allowed me to put an end to my dogs' problems, in the kindest and
easiest (to both dogs and cats and us humans) way?
Oh well, don't bother to answer.
But I do hope that the ordinary people who are coming to this group for
advice and help with their problems (which are not so different from
the ones I had had with my dogs, before starting to use Jerry's
training method) would ponder on this question before rushing to
killfile Jerry for the flimsy reason that he's "weird" and the experts
don't like him.
Lucy
Y***@InBox.Com
2005-08-02 21:48:44 UTC
Permalink
HOWEDY marcel the imbecile idiot liar dog
abuser coward mental case phd psychoclHOWEN,
Person A has been training their dog using a praise-based
technique.
CITE PERSON A, please, dog lovers?

Might marcel be "Person A"?:


7. ***@Mail.Com Mar 3, 8:02 am show options
Newsgroups: uk.rec.pets.misc, rec.pets.dogs.health, alt.med.veterinary,
rec.pets.dogs.breeds, alt.animals.dog
From: ***@Mail.Com - Find messages by this author
Date: 3 Mar 2005 04:02:17 -0800
Local: Thurs, Mar 3 2005 8:02 am
Subject: Re: Pit Bull Ban
Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original
| Report Abuse

HOWEDY lemony fresh,
One bizarre aspect to this story is that the guy
"The GUY" in the stroy ain't nearly as cruel
and ignorant as THE GUY you're postin to,
lemony. Your PAL marcel LIKES HURTING
DOGS and LYING abHHOWET it.
can go to the humane society after the ten
day observation period and claim the dogs back.
You think they'd give a dog to a dog abusing
punk thug coward mental case like your pal
marcel, lemony? Your PAL marcel likest to
HURT dogs and LIE abHOWET it, lemony.
I don't understand that,
It's EZ, lemony. Your pal marcel the imbecile
idiot liar dog abuser coward punk thugh phd
psychoclHOWEN is a DOG ABUSING MENTAL
CASE, lemony. Your PAL marcel wouldn't post
here abHOWETS if it wasn't for OTHER LYING
DOG ABUSING MENTAL CASES enterTRAINING
him, like yourself, lemony.
something has to change.
INDEEDY. THAT'S HOWE COME The Amazing
Puppy Wizard SEZ "DECENT PEOPLE DO NOT
POST HERE abHOWETS and THAT INCLUDES
YOURSELF," lemony.
Nope. Not gonna happen.
Yeah? It IS happenin right NHOWE <{) ; ~ ) >
The city is making an application to the
province to have the dogs put down.
The CITY is only doin what the PEOPLE WANT, lemony.
You and your PAL marcel are TELLIN the CITY HOWE
to HURT and MURDER DOGS.
Oh! Well that's good news in a sad sort of way.
You mean that they'll MURDER the dogs, lemony?
Chances are very good it will succeed seeing
as how it is the second time (!!!!) that these
dogs have been involved in something like this.
PERHAPS they just don't know HOWE to TRAIN
their dogs not to BE AFRAID and to ESCAPE their
TERRORTORY, on accHOWENT of they're ABUSED
like HOWE you and your punk thug coward mental
case marcel PREFER?
Whatta jerk.
Yeah... Let's talk abHOWET jerkin and chokin
your own dog and settin MHOWEstraps HOWET
for passin dogs to step on to keep dogs HOWET
of the flHOWERS as your pal marcel recommends?
Twice in something like two months.
You LIKE to HURT dogs just like HOWE your pal
marcel LIKES to HURT and INTIMDIATE dogs.
LF
And THAT'S HOWE COME we got ANTI DOG LAWS.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >
Ohhh. I have an opinion on prong collars.
Might as well have you take away my birthday.
Subject: Re: GL vs. Prong
Date: 2002-12-23 11:14:11 PST
Well, time to add my 2 cents (Canadian, so
about half a cent american) worth. When I
first started looking into getting a dog,
I wandered out on the net and found info on
a prong collar, and when I looked at it, it
looked like this HORRID thing designed to hurt dogs.

Then, I saw on some show (don't remember which)
info on choke-collars vs. prong collars. The host
actually put one of each on HIMSELF and tried it.

HE found that the choke collar did what it was designed
to do, choke the living daylights out of whoever has it on.

The prong collar on the other hand provided even
pressure all the way around the neck, and he could
take a lot harder of a pull before it got really uncomfortable.

Marcel Beaudoin

And THAT'S HOWE COME DOGS GO INSANE.

Thank you Mudbunny. Now we know HOWE COME we
got lying dog abusing Thug Cowards hurting dogs
and believing they're not hurtin them...

The Puppy Wizard. <{}TPW; ~ ) >

"Bystander" <***@cs.com> wrote in message news:EWBV9.2149$***@iad-read.news.verio.net...

I am puzzled. As a new user here you will not tell me who
this Jerry Howe is but you expect me to killfile him based
on your word?

I appreciate the list of helpful information but I do not
think you should tell someone it does not matter who
a person is and just suggest that they killfile him.

If you would just say he is a "nut" or something,
any logical reason, that would help.

============
(To be clear, they are using praise to tell
the dog when it is doing something good,
Dogs DO NOT KNOW "GOOD" from "BAD", dog lovers.
and lack of praise for when the dog is doing something bad).
You mean PUNISHMENT, dog lovers...
The dog has come to understand that when an action
s/he is doing receives praise, it is a good thing
and should be repeated.
NO, the dog LEARNS he is UNSAFE with his ABUSER.
Person A then tries Jerry's technique of praising their
dog to stop a bad behaviour. The dog, based on prior
experiences,
OF ABUSE, like HOWE you done your own dog to
make IT grHOWEL at you when you carry the paper
and grHOWEL at your brother the ENTIRE time he
visits and BIT your Mrs. for TAKIN STUFF from
him which he'd STOLEN. REMEMBER marcel the imbecile
idiot liar dog abuser punk thug coward mental case
phd psychoclHOWEN?
gets the idea that the behaviour just
performed is a good thing and decides to do it more.
NO, not if the dog has been pupperly CONDITIONED to realize
that PRAISE IS ALWAYS BETTER THAN PUNISHMENT. THAT takes an
UNTRUSTING dog a few minutes to LEARN, through CONDITIONING.


Hey marcel the imbecile idiot liar dog abuser
coward mental case phd psychoclHOWEN?

HOWE abHOWET The Amazing Puppy Wizard drops your
name, marcel the imbecile idiot liar dog abuser
Earlier this week, while I was occupied, Moogli grabbed
something and ran into the bedroom. When Gen went to
grab it from him, he growled and bit her on the knuckle. :(
Say "ADIOS, Gen..."
She freaked out, crying.
INDEEDY.
Needless to say, he swallowed whatever it waws that he stole.
Yeah...
I also figured out why he bit her.
Cause you've ABUSED HIM, marcel.
After talking with her, I discovered that, preeviously, when
she was taking something from him, if he growled, she would
swat him.
SEE? SEE?? SEE???

Local: Tues,Dec 31 2002 11:29 am
Subject: Re: Weekend update (With Marcel and Moogli)

"I think the best thing to do is to let him run and
scream, eventualkly he will learn that hey will not
kill him. I will be close and let him hide behind me
if necessary, but I won't pick him up. I will also
ask the trainer to keep a close eye on him when they
play." Marcel C. Beaudoin

HOWEDY marcel the clown,
Just try to keep an eye on him.
That's HOWE COME the dog will do that BEHIND YOUR BACK.
When he goes to chew on something you don't
want, distract him
BRIEFLY, NON PHYSICALLY and INSTANTLY PRAISE for
5-15 seconds and allow the pup to CONTINUE as he
chooses.
then give him a toy he can chew on.
NO. THAT'S HOWE COME YOU CAN'T TRAIN THE PUP.

HE NEEDS TO THINK OF AND ATTEMPT THE BEHAVIOR
UNTIL IT'S FULLY EXTINGUISHED THRU REPEATED
SUCCESSIVE SUCCESSFULLY DISTRACTED AND PRAISED
BRIEF VARIABLE INTERRUPTIONS AND THE FREEDOM TO
THINK IT THROUGH TILL EXTINCTION.

Too bad you're a phd... marcel the clown... you
add a new dimension to STUPID.
Once he starts chewing, praise him.
NO. That's IDIOCY. The dog has been taken away from
the problem BEFORE HE CAN LEARN not to DO IT!
Eventually he will learn that he gets rewards
from chewing on his toys.
"Oh well, another 19 months and maybe he'll
have outgrown his chewing."

BWWWAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!

That's HOWE COME the "EXXXPERTS" tell you
to lock the dog in a box.
With Moogli, it took about a month and a half of this
before he learned not to chew on shoes.
Takes The Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Students aboHOWET WON DAY to do THAT.
Now there is only once or twice a week
that he wanders around the apartment
with a shoe in his mouth.
BWWWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!

GOOD LUCK, marcel the goddamnedest freakin most
stupidest most undeservedly arrogant mealy mouthed
doubletalking lying dog abusing Punk Thug Coward
clown in town...

BWWAAHJAJAJAJAJAAA!!!
Marcel
Sun,May 15 2005 9:27 am
Subject: Re: What does "bupkis" really mean

HOWEDY marcel the imbecile idiot liar dog abuser coward
active acute long term incurable mental case phd psychoclHOWEN,
Yeah. "It doesn't work", but allows me to walk my dogs
without the bolting, pulling and the wanting the other
dogs to diediedie, that TRAINED dogs seem to be so good
at doing, every day.
Hmmm. Let me try to explain it a bit clearer.
Your own dog bit your Mrs. on accHOWENT of you jerk an choke IT.
By the words that you used, you indicated that if you
wanted to get your dog to not bother the other dog, you
use "good Boy" to distract them
No. We DON'T "distract" the dog with PRAISE, we REASSURE the dog.
and get them to focus on you.
No marcel the imbecile. THAT makes the dog DEPENDENT on
his CON-TROLLER being IN CON-TROLL <{) ; ~ ) >
The thing is, if your (Jerry's) technique actually worked,
after the first few times, you woudn't need to distract tham,
RIGHT. But ONLY if we BRIEFLY ALTERNATELY and NON PHYSICALLY
DISTRACT and PRAISE AFTER PRAISE IN ADVANCE, marcel .

HERE'S HOWE The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual STUDENTS all over the Whole Wild World DO IT
EFFECTIVELY NEARLY INSTANTLY GENTLY and FOR FREE, to boot:

"ziggy" <***@gmx.net> wrote in message news:***@posting.google.com...

Well, thanks for taking the time to reply as you
kindly did. Yeah, ok, I think I got to hand it to you
lol So it's back to the manual for a while and I'll
let you know how we get on! I'm still eating my
humble pie so excuse crumbs ~;0)

I really didn't think the rewarding bad behaviour
had a chance in hell but you have proved me wrong......

He was blanking me like crazy the other day, I lost
my rag (Got the flu so on a short leash myself lol)
Gave it a 'Good boy, yeah you really are!' and he
did what I'd been asking him to do for 5 mins straight
away lol Doh!!

Tickles me now when he's up to no good and I say
Good Boy, he turns straight back to my sweety and
he doesn't even know it!

It's applied physchology all the way with Dobies
in particular and I know it's often better to turn a
blind eye rather than confront at that particular
time, I've always distracted rather than corrected
at this young age but I'm going your way!!

Thanks all

ziggy
This humble pie tastes nice actually ~;0)
ziggy
--
they would be coming to you on your command
No marcel. The COME COMMAND IS the come command, not priase.
HOWEver, you GOT TO PRAISE WITH the COME COMMAND or you'll
not be followin the SCIENTIFICALLY CONSISTENT METHOD, marcel,
and you'll EXXXTINGUISH the INSTALLATION of the COME COMMAND
as a CONDITIONAL REFLEX.

HOWEver, askin the dog to COME WILL NOT TRAIN HIM NOT TO DO THAT.
*without* the need to distract them first.
You're full of crap, marcel. You got NO IDEA HOWE to install
a conditional reflex or you wouldn't be JERKIN and CHOKIN
your own dog who FEARS you and your brother and GRHOWELS at
you when you carry the paper and GRHOWELED at your brother
for two weeks when he visited on accHOWENT of HE LOOKS LIKE
YOU.

That SEZ IT ALL, don't it, marcel.
Question for you, what phrase do you use when you want to
praise your dogs?
Same same, marcel. UNLESS we've CONDITIONED a string of
relaxing reinforcers to be triggered when we need the
dog to RELLY REALLY calm DHONEN INSTNATLY, like when
there's a thunder storm or maybe sumpthin like THIS
Wasn't there someone here last year (who writes books
with dogs in it) who said essentially the same thing?
That was LeeCharlesKelley who likeWIZE LEARNED HOWE
to understand and use PRAISE according to The Amazing
Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual <{); ~ ) >

From: "LeeCharlesKelley" <***@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 08:14:49 -0400

Subject: Re: Counter Cruising must stop

Leah:>I did try to get my head around your theories, but
I can't buy them. praise *reinforces* the dog's behavior<

I'll give you an easier example: say you're walking through
the park with your dog. She starts walking a little ahead
of you but not isn't intensely focused on something in the
environment, she's just a little restless to move ahead.

You praise her entususiastically and she turns and comes
back to your side. If praise were only a reinforcer, praising
her for moving ahead of you would have made her feel that *that*
behavior was good and reinforced it, right?

She would have been more likely to
stay in front of you than come back.

So in this example how and why did praise have the
opposite effect and *change* the behavior rather
than reinforce it?


From: "LeeCharlesKelley" <***@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 18:46:40 -0400

Subject: Re: Counter Cruising must stop

John:>I dunno. In both of these situations, praise stopped the
undesirable
behavior. I would guess that the praise meant more to your dog at that
point than the object he was after.

That's it pretty much in a nutshell. The dog was looking for a way to
relieve mild emotional tension. The behavior was given up voluntarily
when the dog found another source of emotional satisfaction, being
praised. Praise works, as both a reward and a "correction", because it
changes the dog's emotional state. Behavior is caused by emotion.
When
you change a dog's emotional state, you automatically change his
behavior.

John:> What happens if that balance is disturbed. What happens if the
object your dog is going after means more to them than your praise,

Then praise wouldn't have any effect on the behavior. In order to use
praise in this way you have to be able to "read" the dog's emotions.
Although, I take that back. That's not necessarily true. I once got
an
aggressive dog at the dog run to almost give up her aggression by
praising
her every time she growled at a dog who came too close. I wasn't doing
it
on purpose. I was just trying to calm her nerves, but I noticed that
when
I began praising her, her psychic buffer zone started about fifteen
feet
away from where we were sitting. But after praising her for ten
minutes
or so, she'd let a dog get within five feet or less before the growls
started escaping from her throat. She even did the thing with her
nose,
where she'd start to try and sniff the dog from her perch on the park
bench before the growl in her throat got loose.

I thought she was very sweet underneath her swagger and felt that with
enough encouragement she might be able to get off her ass and actually
go
play with some of the other dogs, but her owner thought I was
"encouraging" her aggression and gave us both a good scolding. She was
quite right to scold me. I hadn't been asked to change her dog's
behavior. But the dog hadn't been doing a damn thing when the owner
came
over, grabbed her roughly by the collar, held her snout and shouted in
her
face.

John:>or what happens if you do not praise them for a while when they
attempt to perform the undesired behavior?

I'm not sure I understand the question. Praising a bad behavior, if
done
in the right situation, with the right timing, and with four or five
repetitions, should get the dog to totally give up the desire to
produce
the behavior ever again, at least in that location. Remember, the
desire
to produce the behavior comes from internal emotional tension. If that
tension is resolved through praise (or whatever tactic you use), the
dog
will have learned that the behavior it had wanted to produce didn't get
a
successful result, but that listening to you (or responding to whatever
tactic you used to relieve the tension) *did*.
So, I used his "technique" on Pan's stick chewing.
Yeah, but NON VIOLENT METHODS DO NOT WORK for DOG ABUSERS:

Re: Your Training Modality is Driving Your Dogs Crazy

Leah:>>Is there something wrong with being curious?

Morrison:>You're not curious, Leah. IMO, you're just wishy-washy.

Kelley: I don't have the same history that you seem to have with
Leah, but I hardly think being open to exploring new ideas qualifies
as being "wishy-washy". To me it shows intelligence. But then,
from what I've seen, you've demonstrated a singular kind of black
and-white mentality and a highly ignorant closed-mindedness.

Morrison:>You keep thinking that there's some "new" method
out there that will VOILA!, magically transform you into a
great trainer, and overnight, too.
It just doesn't work that way.
Kelley: Actually, that's *exactly* how it worked with me.

Within the first day of using these techniques I went from
becoming a run-of-the-mill dog trainer to being pretty damn
good, if I do say so myself, and all simply by testing the
techniques, just to see if they worked.

I've said from the beginning that if I can get the kind of
amazing results I do when I'm not really a dog trainer at
heart, but a writer, then someone who's really a dog trainer
at heart would become a far better trainer than I am instantly,
just by using these methods.

Somewhere along the line, however, I discovered a dirty little
secret about the mentality of most dog trainers: they only
*became* trainers because they liked the feeling of power and
control it gave them. If that's the case with you, then you
definitely wouldn't like natural dog training because it
ultimately teaches a dog how to control his own behavior.

In fact in some ways, it forces you to turn your need for
control over to the dog because the method only works when
you put your trust in a dog's natural instincts instead of
fighting against them all the time.

That's because when you put yourself in alignment with a dog's
instincts, the dog will naturally obey you under any and all
circumstances because group harmony and cooperation, when
properly nurtured, are the most fundamental aspects of a dog's
nature.

I came across the following quote recently, and though I have
no idea who Edward Hoagland is, I think what he says here speaks
volumes: "In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try
to train him to be semi-human.

The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of
becoming partly a dog." - Edward Hoagland

Leah:>>This "praise the dog when he misbehaves" thing keeps
coming up, and nobody has been able to explain it to me.

Morrison:>That's because no one can.

Actually, Jerry Howe explains it pretty well.

And as for the incident I related where I praised my
dog when he found a juicy chicken breast and my praise
caused him to drop it, and subsequently got him to stop
scavenging altogether, merely by praising him everytime
he found something, the answer is pretty clear.

He didn't pick up that chicken breast because he was hungry,
he did it because he was looking for something to do that
would satisfy an inner emotional need, relating to his instincts.

When I praised him, suddenly and very enthusiastically, he
dropped the chicken breast because the praise provided him
with more emotional satisfaction than the chicken breast
did at that particular moment.

You could look at this as being an example of pure operant
conditioning, if you like (though you'd be wrong), but it
would still mean that you would have to give up your beliefs
about what praise is and how and why it works, and you don't
strike me as someone who's capable of even *questioning* your
beliefs, let alone capable of giving them up.

Morrison:>every single method out there is based on CC
and/or OC. That's a fact.

No, it's not a fact. The only reason it seems factual to
you is because the basic premise of behavioral science is
tautological in nature (and also because, IMO, you have a
tiny mind).

In my estimation it's more likely that there are little
green men on Mars than that what you think is operant
conditioning is what's really taking place when a dog
learns *anything*.

Dogs do not learn things by association or by repetition or by
trial and error, but through their emotions, pure and simple.

Even Pavlov said: "Positive emotions arising in connection
with the perfection of a skill, irrespective of its pragmatic
significance at a given moment, serve as the reinforcement."

Of course, even Pavlov got it wrong on the most basic level,
since there really is no such thing as a reinforcement, but
that's another story for another day.

---------------------------
Before, I would just ask her to drop it/leave it.
No, suja would JERK and CHOKE IT and SCREAM "LEAVE IT"
as per taragreen2's INSTRUCTIONS which she NEVER FINISHED
TEACHIN US on accHOWENT of she got CONGESTED.
After, I would tell her she's a good girl when she
picked up or was about to pick up a stick.
INDEED. PUNISHMENT and INTIMDIDATION are HOWE COME
you got to CONTINUE SCREAMIN "LEAVE IT" and jerking
and choking the dog someMOORE as suja's POSTED CASE
HISTORY will clearly reveal, as will yours, marcel.
Upshot was that I had a very happy, waggy tailed
dog who settled down to chew the stick.
BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!

AS OPPOSED to havin a VERY UNHAPPY dog DOIN THE SAME SAME.
Clearly, she was relieved that I had come to my
senses and recognized that sticks are an essential
part of the doggie diet.
CLEARLY, PUNISHMENT DERRANGES BEHAVIORS.
Hey Lucy!!!
Hey marcel the imbecile idiot liar dog abuser
coward mental case phd psychoclHOWEN!!!
Obviously, based on your own words "A theory - ANY theory -
is worthy only as long as it is supported by the experimental
data. ONE discordant experiment and the theory is in bad trouble. "
INDEEDY! NON VIOLENT METHODS DO NOT WORK FOR DOG
ABUSING MENTAL CASES like yourself, marcel the
imbecile idiot liar dog abuser coward mental case
phd psychoclHOWEN <{): ~ ) >
Jerry's method is in "bad trouble".
HARDLY, marcel. If you EXXXPERT DOG ABUSERS STUDIED
and FOLLOWED THE METHODS PRECISELY you'd GET your own
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANT SUCCESS JUST LIKE
HOWE ALL The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog
Training Method Manual Students from ALL OVER The
WHOWEL WILD WORLD REPORT RIGHT HERE.

You know, the WONS YOU CALL LIARS, remember marcel?
--
Marcel and Moogli
http://mudbunny.blogspot.com/
LIKE THIS:

From: "The Puppy Wizard" <***@EarthLink.Net>
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 23:43:05 GMT
Subject: Jerry Howe's (The Amazing Puppy Wizard) Free Training Manual

From: Anne (***@bigfoot.com)
Subject: Jerry Howe's Free Training Manual
Date: 2002-05-17 12:59:05 PST

I adopted my little shepherd mix pup, Ginger about
a month ago and enrolled us in obedience school
so she could learn to be a good house dog.

I love the classes and she is doing very, very well,
but a few of the techniques the trainer is teaching
us make me a little uncomfortable.

In the instances where I tried to use them exactly,
poor Ginger ended up cowering away from me and
looking sad and scared, and that bothered me.

Our trainer's main theory seems to be contained in
what he told us: Your dog has to fear your wrath more
than he looks forward to any pleasure gained by
disobeying you, whether it be to steal food or chase
a rabbit or just ignore a command.

I dont want Ginger to fear my wrath, or be intimidated
by me, but I also want her to listen! A few times, I
ignored the training method we were taught in school,
and tried just gently correcting her and showing her
again how to do what I wanted, along with lots and lots
of encouraging praise and she seemed to learn more
quickly that way than when I was yelling NO at the top
of my voice.

I downloaded Jerry Howe's Wits End manual and
read through it, and so much of it rang true to what
my own experience with Ginger has been. She learns
if I yell and yank her leash, but she is also unhappy
and frightened. She learns if I correct her gently and
encourage her, and she actually enjoys our training
sessions then.

So even though I havent used Mr. Howe's techniques
exactly yet, it seems like they would work very well for
me and Ginger!

I especially was interested in the part about submission
and rolling your dog over, as that is exactly what the trainer
told us to do, even if the dog was scared and snapped when
you did it!

According to Mr. Howe's manual, thats a terrible thing to do to
your dog, and after seeing a cowering little pup in class used as
an example in front of 15 other dogs, I have to agree with him!
My Ginger rolls over all the time, to have her tummy rubbed, and
Im glad I never had to try to force her like the trainer advised,
as now I see I might have harmed her psychologically by doing
that!

I just wanted to say that I was very happy to get the information
Mr. Howe provided, since a lot of it just validated my own doubts
about our trainer's methods and I feel better now about ignoring
some of them. Im going to read through the Wits End manual again
and try out some of the methods there.

I dont care if Ginger becomes a superdog...I just want
her to be a happy house dog that comes when I call
without fail, and doesnt jump on people or furniture or
steal food -- the usual good house dog behaviors.

Im much more comfortable with Mr. Howe's methods
for achieving this.

Has anyone else used this manual? Any feedback
from other users would really be appreciated.

Anne

AND LIKE THIS, marcel the imbecile idiot liar
dog abuser coward mental case phd psychoclHOWEN:

From: Marisa (***@hotmail.com)
Subject: Re: Jerry Howe's Free Training Manual
Date: 2002-05-17 13:10:26 PST

Hello-

I agree with you!

I didn't want to scare my dog, or hurt her, or pull on her leash,
or any of that. I wanted her to want to work with me, and do
things with me the right way on her own. Or else I don't have a
dog, I would have a robot dog with a sad face a broken spirit.

I have had a German Shepherd pup. And a couple mixes.
They can be challanging. But let me tell you, the reward
you get from having a trained, happy German Shep far out
weighs the weeks or months or training.

And you DON'T have to hurt them to get them to listen. :)

I am now reading Jerrys manual and working with
it for my second day. My roomates, my boyfriend,
and me have already noticed that I have more "control"
without actually working harder to get it with her.

I really enjoy Jerrys "distraction" methods of sort,
the really are working fast for my Jack Russell.

Stick with it! and hey the worst that can happen
is you instill a good feeling with your dog, who
won't be afriad of you throwing her on her back,
or jerking her leash and possibly creating a
spinal injury :)

marisa

From: ***@hotmail.com (Mudbunny)
Date: 31 Dec 2002 06:29:16 -0800

Subject: Re: [Jerry] Re: New Puppy -
but we both work, what's best "get adjusted" strategy???

There is NOTHING wrong with aversions, when necessary, as a last
resort. Do you have kids Jerry?? Do you know people with kids??
Aversion is, at times, necessary. Your kids reach for the element on
the stove once, you tell them no, twice, tell them no. After a certain
point in time, you have two choices. You can either give them a swat
on the bum, and they probably won't do it again, or you let them touch
the element and they WON'T do it again, garaunteed.
NOW GET THE HEEL OFF OUR FORUM or study
your FREE copy of my FREE Wits' End Dog Training
Method manual and CONTRIBUTE to our forum,
Marcel, or get the heel outta here.
What's it gonna be? You gonna continue to make
yourself out to be a CHUMP PUNK LYING DOG
ABUSING THUG COWARD like your mentors and
peers, or are you gonna do what's RIGHT for your
own dog, Marcel?
You see Jerry. We were having an intelligent, open discussion. I like
discussion. I like the back and forth exchange of ideas. That is what
the internet (that is what society in general) is based upon. You have
good ideas!! You obviously believe in them. The others beloieve in
theirs. The best way to get them to listen to what you have to say
(and listen with an open mind) is to do it rationally and calmly. Not
with insults.

Have a Happy New Year

Marcel C. Beaudoin

From: "Jerry Howe" <***@bellsouth.net>
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 10:46:32 -0500

Subject: Re: New record (Ninnyboy, Jerry Howe) -
"I Know The Difference Between Testimonials And
Demonstrated Examples, So, Please Provide Examples,
NOT Testimonials. ANYONE Can Name-Drop-

HOWEDY marcel the clown,
Aww crap. That's what I get for posting at 7:45 when I'm
not awake yet. Sorry for the crosspost everyone...
Sounds like you're doing perfectly...
BWEAAAHAHAHHAAAA!!!
That's HOWE COME I'm here...
That, and to RUB IT IN BUT GOOD, to boot.
cause what you're being taught is DEAD WRONG.
Yeah... The Puppy Wizzzard likes to HURT.
<}TPW;~} >
OK, it's kinda boring at work right now, so I'll bite.
Can your chin reach your butt???
Can you, WITHOUT relying on rhetoric or name-calling,
You don't like being proven DEAD WRONG by a uneducated
shade tree shit kicking dog trainer tellin you HOWER university
professors are givin you a bum steer, ESPECIALLY after you
done gone and blown your INHERITANCE on a degree that
The Puppy Wizzzard JUST PROVED his HALF TRUTH...
AND providing concrete examples,
The Puppy Wizzzard prefers to use DEMON-STRATED
SELF DISCIPLINE as EXXXAMPLE. That's HOWE COME
The Puppy Wizzzard doesn't force bribe punish scold confine
correct and mishandle dogs, cause they're VERY SENSITIVE,
like PHD'S... BWEAAAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!

WELCOME TO WWW WITS' END DOG TRAINING FOOL SCHOOL.
tell me how what I am being taught is wrong,
START BY LOOKIN AT YOUR POSTIN HISTORY THE PAST MONTH.
and what I should do instead.
EVERYBODY ELSE SEZ THEY KILLFILED JERRY SO THEY
DON'T HAVE TO ANSWER QUESTIONS AND BE PROVEN
LIARS AND FACE RIDICULE.
Marcel C. Beaudoin
The Puppy Wizzzard wouldn't RIDICULE a Phd... cause HE'D
PROBALBY FALLA OUTTA HIS ARMCHAIR BUSTIN A GUT
LIKE DIDDLER'S DOG LAUGHIN HIS ARSE OFF AND FALL
INTO YOUR MALARKEY PILED HIGH AND DEEP.

BWAAAAHAHAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAAA!!!
N.B. Having finished my PhD,
Yeah... It'll COME IN HANDY when The Puppy Wizzzard
WRITES HIS BOOK about SHAMING THE ENTIRE INDUSTRY...

YOU'RE THE PUPPY WIZZZARD'S CANNON FODDER,
marcel the goddamnedest freakin stupidest most undeservedly
arrogant mealy mouthed doubletalking lying dog abusing clown
in town... BWWAAHJAJAJAJAJAAA!!!
I know the difference between testimonials
Testimonials? You mean the SCORES of FREE WWW Wits'
End Dog Training Method Students who've REPORTED 100%
TOTAL NON FORCE CONTROL NEARLY INSTANTLY?

YOU MEAN THE WONS YOU CALLED FORGERIES AND LIES?
and demonstrated examples,
Oh! The Puppy Wizzzard is gettin the HANG of this universtiy thinkin...
so, please provide examples,
NO PROBLEMO EL ESTUPIDO!!!
NOT testimonials.
RIGHT... SCORES OF IDENTICAL TESTIMONALS FROM
ALL KINDS OF FOLK FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD WITH
SERIOUS BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS NEARLY INSTANTLY
CURED, FOR FREE, AND THAT AIN'T GOOD ENOUFF
FOR A PHD?????

You tickle The Puppy Wizzzard... PINK.
ANYONE can name-drop.
FOR SHORE!

But NOBODY can name drop like The Puppy Wizzzard
when he DROPS THE HAMMER on the entire industry,
startin with PURDUE BEHAVIOR CLINIC FOR MALPRACTICE.

HOWE'S MY SPELLIN?
Well. The weekend gave us some good news and some
bad news for Moogli. Start with the bad news. Moogli
gets a participation certificate from his training class.
The fact that he shuts down with other dogs around him
makes it really difficult for him to do anything. Stacey
(the trainer) recommended putting him through another
session of puppy training. It sounds like a good idea, but
I don't think I will do it at PetSmart. (Sorry Leah<grin>)
I don't think that they would be able to offer a class size
that won't shut Moogli down in the times that we can make it.
So we are going to look around the area, see if there are
any other trainers available that might be able to help.
On the plus side, Moogli has gotten better in his interactions
with other dogs. While he still doesn't play with them, he doesn't
run in terror from them either.
He will walk away.
A couple times, when they (the other dogs) would come up
and he would not be able to move, he would growl and bark
at them. But he would let them sniff him! Granted, he wasn't
sniffing back and he was curling his lips at them.
Oh well, you win some and you lose some.
Marcel
DOG TRAININ AIN'T LUCK... masters degree holder...

The Puppy Wizzzard sez BWWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!!

Our university professors are on the horns of a few dilemmas.
The Puppy Wizzzard has determined their methods cause behavior
problems... we're SUIN em for MALPRACTICE and ANIMAL ABUSE.

You won't see them respond here, cause of their INSECURITY
FEAR AND MISTRUST. They don't trust themselves to be RIGHT...

The Puppy Wizzzard is fixin to drop the hammer on the entire
industry all at WONCE.


Re: puppy advise please

Subject: The Core Takeaway I Got From Jerry's Manual
Is This: Make Yourself The Center Of Your Puppy's World -
His Personal Lord Jesus. Never Give Him A Reason To Fear
You Or Think You're Angry. Love The Heck Out Of Him, And
You'll End Up With...

HOWEDY mud,
A friend had a golden retriever with the same problem, towards me!!
Whenever I would show up, she would come up to me, whine, flop on her
back, and then do her best "old Faithful" imitation. Our solution was
to do as was mentioned previously, and greet her outside. After a
while (about 3 years!!!) she grew out of it.
Brilliant. The Puppy Wizard has never seen a case of
submissive urination last longer than a couple days...
Good luck
Yeah. KEEP IT, marcel. Dog training AIN'T LUCK.
Marcel C. Beaudoin
That's HOWE COME your idiocy takes 3 years to
'train' the dog and Your Puppy Wizard's students
do it in a day or two...

The Core Takeaway I Got From Jerry's Manual Is This:
Make Yourself The Center Of Your Puppy's World -
His Personal Lord Jesus. Never Give Him A Reason
To Fear You Or Think You're Angry. Love The Heck
Out Of Him, And You'll End Up With A Great Dog," Charlie

From: Eric
To: ***@bellsouth.net
Sent: Friday, November 29, 2002 7:54 AM
Subject: just checking in..

Jerry!

You helped me with my pal Dundee about a year ago
regarding submissive peeing. Just wanted to let you
know he's doing great- he was "cured" in about 2 days
using your techniques!

He has since become the "smartest dog in the world"!
Once I stopped thinking like a human and got inside his
head, I can teach him ANYTHING, usually in a matter
of minutes. Makes me look like an expert dog-trainer.

I rescued two strays last week, cleaned 'em up, wormed
'em, and am getting them their shots. Time to get inside
their heads and teach them to teach themselves how to
be good dogs!

Instead of feeling like "training" is a chore, I look forward
to working with these guys a couple times a day...

Although I don't follow your instructions "to a T", I learned
from you to "think like a dog" and stimulate their brain rather
than beating ass or pinching, or any of that nonsense.

I know damn well I would NOT be loyal to someone who beat MY ass lol!

Well, just wanted to thank you for rattling the bushes
out there and teaching folks the RIGHT way to "train" dogs.

A horseman friend of mine uses very similar techniques in
training his horses- he calls it "natural horsemanship". He
is hated by nearly all the local "trainers" yet somehow he
repeatedly wins at every show he attends. He rarely shows
any more, but goes now and then to rub their noses in it
(pun intended)... Too cool....

Have a great holiday season and keep up the good work!

Eric , Dundee, Sammy, and Maynard

- Show quoted text -
HOWEDY marcel the clown,
Why do I love this dog so much.
That's what gets a lot of dogs HURT and DEAD around here...
He ate through one keyboard cable,
Tough break. That'll happen if you don't allow the puppy
to cruize around the HOWES and teach him what's his
or not... without giving alternate behaviors and substitutes...
but didn't matter,
It mighta, if he got DEAD over it. That's HOWE COME
we sometimes use a little Sloan's Linament, if we haven't
been able to address that sort of thing, USUALLY BECAUSE
of PAST INAPPROPRIATE EFFORTS to break the dog of
chewing wires...
That makes it REAL HARD to CATCH THE DOG in the ACT
of THINKIN about touching a wire, AND PRAISING HIM for
THINKING ABOUT IT BEFORE HE TOUCHES it...
If he CONTINUES to try to touch it, we make a brief variable
distraction INSTANTLY followed by prolonged non physical
PRAISE, and ALLOW the pup TO CONTINUE exploring to
TEACH HIM the wires are not for him... WITHOUT TAKIN
HIM AWAY FROM IT.
SAME SAME SAME SAME FOR ANY OTHER BEHAVIOR.
it was an old keyboard.
Big deal. Don't matter WHAT it was, it's ALL THE SAME
SAME to the puppy.
Then he ate through a PlayStation2 Controller cable
I'd left out when went to bed.
Because you hadn't TRAINED him. Takes The Puppy
Wizzzard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method
Manual Students about two HOWERS to train their pups
to not touch nuthin that's not for them throughout the HOWES.
That's OK, I mostly play alone.
Sometimes it's hard to find anybody good enough to play with...
But today he ate through the other controllers cable
Brilliant. You could have used the two pryor instances as
training lessons AFTER THE FACT as instructed in your
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual.
while the kids were playing with it (they had part of
it lying over the arm of the chair he was lying beside)
Blame the kids...for you not training EITHER to behave.
The total of replacement parts is greater than the price
we paid for the dog.
The Puppy Wizzzard gets most of HIS dogs for FREE from
EXXXPERT trainers who've become afraid of their dogs
they've abused according to traditional training methods.
Oh well, another 19 months and maybe he'll have
outgrown his chewing.
YEAH. THAT'S BECAUSE OF HOWE YOU'RE TRAINING HIM.
Teething does not mean destructive chewing. Destructive
chewing is a SYMPTOM OF ANXIETY, not teething.
The stupid thing is
YOU GOT ALL THE INFORMATION YOU NEED BUT YOU'RE
TOO STUPID TO USE IT CAUSE YOU WANT TO PUNISH
AND HURT.
he has A HUGE supply of Pigs ears,
The Puppy Wizzzard would NEVER give HIS dogs crap like that.
The Puppy Wizzzard only leaves WON acceptable chew item
in each area of the HOWES. The Puppy Wizzzard NEVER
offers the acceptable chew items unless it's for PLEASURE.
twisted ropes, rubber toys,
Fine...
marinated cowhides,
GARBAGE.
and every other conceivable chewable items
from super soft to extra tough,
Like your electronics stuff, hunh?
he has no EXCUSE for chewing cables.
SHORE he does. YOU NEVER TRAINED HIM.
Aaaarrrghhh.
Stupidity begins in the HOWES... or sumpthin like that.
Trentus
GOOD LUCK...
Just try to keep an eye on him.
That's HOWE COME the dog will do that BEHIND YOUR BACK.
When he goes to chew on something you don't want,
distract him
BRIEFLY, and INSTANTLY PRAISE for 5-15 seconds and
allow the pup to CONTINUE as he chooses.
then give him a toy he can chew on.
NO. THAT'S HOWE COME YOU CAN'T TRAIN THE PUP.
HE NEEDS TO THINK OF AND ATTEMPT THE BEHAVIOR
UNTIL IT'S FULLY EXTINGUISHED THRU REPEATED
SUCCESSIVE SUCCESSFULLY DISTRACTED AND PRAISED
BRIEF VARIABLE INTERRUPTIONS AND THE FREEDOM TO
THINK IT THROUGH TILL EXTINCTION.
Too bad you're a phd... marcel the clown... you add a new
dimension to STUPID.
Once he starts chewing, praise him.
NO. That's IDIOCY. The dog has been taken away from
the problem BEFORE HE CAN LEARN not to DO IT!
Eventually he will learn that he gets rewards from
chewing on his toys.
"Oh well, another 19 months and maybe he'll have
outgrown his chewing."
BWWWAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
That's HOWE COME the "EXXXPERTS" tell you to lock
the dog in a box.
With Moogli, it took about a month and a half of this
before he learned not to chew on shoes.
Takes The Puppy Wizzzard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog
Training Method Students bout WON DAY to do THAT.
Now there is only once or twice a week
that he wanders around the apartment
with a shoe in his mouth.
BWWWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!
GOOD LUCK, marcel the goddamnedest freakin most
stupidest most undeservedly arrogant mealy mouthed
doubletalking lying dog abusing Punk Thug Coward
Psycholown in town...
BWWAAHJAJAJAJAJAAA!!!
Marcel
And THAT'S HOWE COME The Amazing Puppy
Wizard goes: "BWEEEEEEEEAAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!}

LIKE THIS:

BWEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!
Y***@InBox.Com
2005-08-02 23:45:47 UTC
Permalink
HOWEDY paula,
I'm willing to listen and discuss whatever you want,
but I'd like first of all to get that reference or an
admission of the group that the said reference is
impossible to get because IT DOES NOT EXIST.
You just do not get it.
No paula, YOU "just do not get it".
Period.
Not "PERIOD", paula. YOU CAN'T "GET IT" on
accHOWENT of you're a LYIN DOG ABUSING ACTIVE
ACUTE CHRONIC LONG TERM INCURABLE MENTAL CASE.
Lynn gave you a whole discussion about how praise
for the behavior that you want extinguished is used
in aggressive dogs and how that can work with some
types of aggression but can make it worse with others.
Lucy PROVED lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn is a LIAR
and DOG ABUSING MENTAL CASE, like yourself, paula.
You need to know more about CC than just what happened
with Pavlov's dogs. It's not just for food and salivation.
It's about any good associations with any stimuli.
You mean, LIKE THIS?:

Instrumental / Classical / Operant / Conditioning
CC / OC / IC / -P +P / +R -R / S R / R S
It's ALL The SAME SAME SAME SAME
<{); ~ ) >

HOWEDY People,

Since The Amazing Puppy Wizard ALWAYS gets CONfHOWENDED
tryin to suss the psychobabble in behavioral terminology
HE asked Dr. Von if he could remember what he was taught
in school fifty years ago:

"...all the highest nervous activity, as it manifests
tself in the conditional reflex, consists of a continual
change of these three fundamental processes -- excitation,
inhibition and disinhibition." Ivan P. Pavlov

What's important is, "does Shamu reliably
eat the fish and not the pretty girl?"

George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.

From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <***@mindspring.com>
Subject: The Amazing Jerry's take on psychobabble
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 12:13:44 -0400

You might improve the learning of folk who actually
live with and train dogs to do useful things if you
excluded everyone who uses psychobabble from your lists.

I recommend to all of you who wish to taste the flavor
of sensible animal behaviorists to read THE MISBEHAVIOR
OF ORGANISMS, Breland and Breland.

This married pair of psychologists began the long trail
of highly trained animals who are symbolized by Shamu
eating a mackrel from a girl's hand instead of eating
the much more tasty pretty girl who is exactly the size
of the natural food of killer whales, seals. Yum!

The essay, by the way, is a chapter in B.F. Skinner's
summing up book, CUMULATIVE RECORD. They include a
sentence which more or less says, "unless you understand
the personal history of the particular animal, and the
history of this animal's species and group, the developmental
history of the animal, you cannot effectively train the animal.

Pigs root and hen's scratch, if you try to train hens without
scratching or pigs without scratching or pigeons without pecking,
you aren't going to have much success.

A conditional reflex is one which is learned, the original
primitive reflex occurs no matter what the history of the
animal, and is hard wired. If you train the animal to respond,
say by ringing a bell immediately before turning on a bright
light, then you've taught the animal and made his native reflex
of pupil constriction conditional upon the ringing of a bell.

Thorndyke added some terminology to this kind of training
and insisted that when you train the animal to make gross
motor responses that this learning is "instrumental", the
animal takes action and uses an instrument.

The Russian word translated as "conditional" in all other
contexts was mistranslated by Pavlov's American translator,
Horsley Gannt, as "conditioned" and so American psychology
went haring after phantasmagora.

The major theorists for the development of the language of
operant conditioning are Edward Thorndike, John Watson, and
B. F. Skinner. Their approach to behaviorism played a major
role in the development of American psychology.

They proposed that learning is the result of the application
of consequences; that is, learners begin to connect certain
responses with certain stimuli. This connection causes the
probability of the response to change (i.e., learning occurs.)

Thorndike labeled this type of learning instrumental. Using
consequences, he taught kittens to manipulate a latch (e.g.,
an instrument). Skinner renamed instrumental as "operant"
because in this learning, one is "operating" on, and is
influenced by, the environment. Where classical conditioning
illustrates S-->R learning, operant conditioning is often
viewed as R-->S learning since it is the consequence that
follows the response that influences whether the response
is likely or unlikely to occur again.

It is through operant conditioning that
voluntary responses are learned.

One should note that Russian Psychology did very well
without the operant language, and only pettifogging
university professors ought to worry about what kind
of label we attach to the learning. Pfui!

Even Skinner understood this!

And please note if you saw the original movie, THE
MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE, you saw a Chinese psychologist
who was based on Andrew Salter, CONDITIONED REFLEX
THERAPY.

Alas, Salter didn't have a Ph.D., but he basically rescued
us from the long Freudian nightmare and returned psychotherapy
to a scientific basis. Alas, the 2nd movie didn't even cite
Salter as a source. "...all the highest nervous activity, as
it manifests itself in the conditional reflex, consists of a
continual change of these three fundamental processes --
excitation, inhibition and disinhibition." Ivan P. Pavlov

George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.

What's important is, "does Shamu reliably eat
the fish and not the pretty girl?"

George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.
OTOH, if you don't know what the hell you are doing,
which you and Jerry don't since you don't even know
what the hell you are talking about,
You mean we don't know the difference between
OC and CC, paula? IT'S BULLSHIT, paula.
you will end up giving positive associations
to negative behaviors
Therebye EXXXTINGUISHING NEGATIVE BEHAVIORS, paula.
in the wrong circumstances and you will reinforce
the behavior you want to get rid of.
ALL BEHAVIORS ARE THE SAME SAME, paula.
You need to know the dog,
A DOG IS A DOG, paula. ALL DOGS ARE THE SAME
when it comes to EFFECTIVE SCIENTIFIC and
PSYCHOLOGICAL CONDITIONING techniques. The
INDIVIDUAL SUBJECT DOES NOT MANIPULATE the
SCIENTIFIC METHOD, the SCIENTIFIC and PSYCHOLOGICAL
CONDITIONING TECHNIQUES MANIPULATE the INDIVIDUAL
to CONFORM to the EFFECTIVE SCIENTIFIC METHODS.
know what reinforces and doesn't,
THAT'S IRRELEVENT, paula.
what is underlying the behavior you are addressing, etc.
IT'S ALL THE SAME SAME, paula. TAILORING SCIENTIFIC
METHODS to SUIT the INDIVIDUAL VIOLATES the SCIENTIFIC
METHOD, paula <{); ~ ) >
or things can get very quickly out of control
Kinda like HOWE they done RIGHT HERE, paula?
Whether or not trainers have been writing about it
on the internet, if you actually knew any good trainers
CITE WON please, paula???

BWEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!

YOU CAN'T!

Your punk thug coward MENTAL CASE pal lying "I LOVE
KOEHLER" lynn TRIED using dr. ian dunbar as an
EXXXAMPLE and PROVED HE TOO, IS A DOG ABUSING FRAUD.
or worked with them,
Lucy HAS worked with the BEST trainer in the WHOWEL WILD WORLD.
or even if you actually read this group,
It's ALL IN THERE, ain't it, paula...
you would know that there is a whole tradition of
dealing with anxiety and anxiety based behaviors by
talking happy talk around the anxiety provoking stimuli.
Yeah... IT NEVER WORKS, paula.
Google it for rbdb or on the big bad web, but if you
don't know what you are looking for, you will find
answers to things that are not anxiety based like the
ones you keep coming up with.
Well then, perhaps YOU will provide a LINK?
Is Jerry the first to advise that everything is anxiety
based and everything should be handled with CC?
PROBABLY SO, paula. Better take your ANTI ANXXXIHOWESNESS meds.
I don't know,
HOWE COME? EveryWON ELSE KNOWS.
but even if he has company on that one,
CITES PLEASE?
it is idiotic company.
Dr. Von agrees. Dr. Larry aka TooCool agrees.
Dr. Altman agrees. HOWE COME you DISAGREE with
these HIGLY EDUCATED Students of The Amazing
Puppy Wizard???
It also doesn't negate the fact that he took
the techniques from others
Like dr. dunbar, paula?

CITES PLEASE?
even if he is recommending their use (or misuse as
the case may be) under different circumstances.
CITES PLEASE? THAT'S what your punk thug coward
mental case pal lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn was
TRYING to do when she EMBARRASSED dr. ian dunbar.
Get your head out of your ass and your ego in check
and try to actually figure out what is going on here.
THAT'S EZ, paula. You and your punk thug coward mental
case pals will DO and SAY ANY THING to DEFEND your alleged
RIGHT to HURT INTIMDIATE and MURDER innocent critters and
call it SHELTER and RESCUE <{): ~ ) >
Spend your time learning about classical conditioning
For WHAAAAT? Lucy FHOWEND a 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL METHOD which CONDITIONS ALL CRITTERS
JUST LIKE HOWE Dr. Von SEZ above, paula.
and operant conditioning
You mean PUNISHMENT AVOIDANCE and BRIBERY, paula.
and the strengths, weaknesses and limitations of both.
The ONLY LIMITATIONS are when you MIX PUNISHEMENT AVOIDANCE
and BRIBER with EFFECTIVE NON PHYSICAL CONDITIONING, paula.
Look into how both are used by good trainers
CITE WON, paula. JUST WON please???
with a whole bag of tools
You mean like your pronged spiked pinch choke
and shock collars crates bribes intimidation
and avoidance, paula?
and the knowledge to figure out when to use which ones.
THERE AIN'T NO APUPRIATE USE OF AVOIDANCE PAIN
INTIMIDATION CRATING BRIBERY or MURDERIN dogs.
As for your couch chewing challenge, that is just more
evidence that you are completely missing the point.
The POINT IS the dog is DOIN an UNDESIRABLE
BEHAVIOR and PRAISE will SATISFY HIS NEEDS
and EXXXTINGUISH ANY undesirable activity.
A good trainer
CITE WON PLEASE, paula?

dr. dunbar FAILED to pass the TEST, accordin
to HIS OWN WRITTEN WORDS, paula. REMEMBER?
would want to find out why the dog is eating the couch.
NOT when we use EFFECTIVE NON PHYSICAL CONDITIONING
to EXXXTINGUISH ALL undesirable behaviors, paula.
If your dog has separation anxiety issues,
SA can be CURED NEARLY INSTANTLY. MAYBE FASTER.

LIKE THIS:

"Just Want To Second Jerry's Method For
Dealing With This (Destructive Separation
Anxiety). I've Suggested It To Quite A Few
Clients Now And It's Worked 'EVERY TIME
The Very First Time' - marilyn, Trainer, 33
Years Experience.

AND LIKE THIS:

From: Hoku Beltz
To: The Puppy Wizard
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 6:12 PM
Subject: Mahalo

Aloha Jerry,

Just wanted to let you know that the surrogate toy
technique is working wonders. I have not had a
shredded sheet for over a week now. It is nice
to be able to leave the bed made and come home
to a made bed.

Your program is awesome, but you already know
that. Keep up the good work!

Hoku

=================

"Hoku Beltz" <***@rsphawaii.com> wrote in message news:SN2k9.45447$***@twister.socal.rr.com...

Aloha Sunny,

Just follow the training program to the letter, no matter how
insignificant some of the step seem to be and your pupy will
be a very well behaved dog in a few days.

I would seriously consider backing out of the training classes
as they will conflict with the Wit's End principles.

I went the training route first, and still had problems until I
found Wits' End. Now I have two "new and improved" dogs.
You won't be dissapointed if you follow the program.

Good luck,

Hoku

==================

AND LIKE THIS:

From: Chris Williams (***@webtv.net)
Subject: Re: Thank you Jerry Howe
Date: 2002-03-26 08:16:19 PST

Engrossing account, Anthony. Our best to Angel
and your family.

A friend, who socializes the kittens I've taken
from a feral cat colony, is using the DDR.

She reports far fewer panic problems than
she's had before.

============================

AND LIKE THIS:

Chris Williams writes:

"The FREE Wits' End Dog Training Method manual
I do find valuable. Much of it I recognize as what
I've always done without thinking of it as "training".
New stuff, I've used. His anchoring technique erased
the last of Mac's fireworks trauma,"

====================

AND LIKE THIS:

Dave Cohen <***@total.net writes:
Re: Barking Deterrants Needed...

Hi.

Please understand that I do not know Jerry and have
spoken with him briefly once by email.

I have no stake or interest in the success of his business.
I simply want to thank him publicly for one of his tips, with
regards to separation anxiety.

I thought it seemed far fetched to praise a stuffed animal
and then say good bye to my own dog, but I am usually a
very open minded person, so I tried it. Well, lo and behold-
the damn trick worked!

I think Jerry has some intriguing techniques, and
personally I think everyone who constantly criticizes
him is not understanding his logic.

Thank you Jerry!

********************************************************

AND LIKE THIS:

From: "Regina Guerrero" <>
To: <***@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 11:42 AM
Subject: Thank You!
I just wanted to take a bit of time
to tell you how much I appreciate your product and
your training methods as well.
When my little Chihuahua first arrived
I was overwhelmed with her anxiety and
her ability to just Bark endlessly.
I received your product and at first I thought
I was using it wrong, because my puppy just seemed to
ignore it.
But after a week or two, she began to calm down
considerably as well as act more friendly towards
people on the street.
I can't believe the difference I see in my little
puppy. Your product is a life saver!
Thanks again for everything.
Sincerely,
Regina Guerrero
then distraction/praise may well have helped it.
YOU MEAN LIKE THIS?:

"Dan Moore" <***@worldnet.att.net>
wrote in message news:fS2Lc.114567$***@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.

Tracy,

What worked for me, in just one storm,
was to praise the dog after each clap
of thunder, telling him he's a Good Dog!

This is an almost 13 year old Doberman, BTW.

The next time it thundered, he did not even
react at all--you could not tell it was the same
dog as before.

There was more thunder just the other day,
and same thing, nada, nothing, zilch, no
cowering, whimpering, trying to hide at all,
it was that simple.

I got this idea from Jerry Howe, who might seem
to be a "wild and crazy" character, but his non-
abusive way of handling dogs WORKS.

Wonderfully.

Praise.

It's that simple.

Juanita
If the dog is looking for chewies buried in the cushions,
praising while the digging is occurring instead of after
the distraction has stopped the digging will get you a
destroyed couch and a dog who doesn't know why on earth
you aren't happy about it
OH? You mean you'd VIOLATE the EFFECTIVE SCIENTIFIC METHODS?
tearing up every stuffed item in your house,
THAT would ONLY HAPPEN if you told the dog you
WASN'T HAPPY with his BAD BEHAVIOR, paula.
since you have taught it that you like stuffed things
to be destroyed. Jerry's stuff is not revolutionarily
counterintuitive.
You mean, LIKE THIS?:


"Speech is a mirror of the soul: as a man speaks,
so is he." Publilius Syrus, First century B.C., Maxim 1073

"We are what we do."

From: Marshall Dermer (***@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
Subject: Re: Jerry's Dog Training Manual
Date: 2001-07-12 06:49:13 PST
While the concept of shake cans is not new,
I haven't read any other advice that says to
praise immediately regardless of what the dog
does next (the common advice is to praise once
the dog is doing a desired behaviour or at least
stopped the unwanted behaviour), this is unique
to Jerry (and Marilyn) and from my own experiences
is an important part of the process.
And how do we know this aspect of his advice is right?

Jerry is not God and his manual is not the Bible.

His advice could be subject to an empirical analysis.

--Marshall

=================

"Marshall Dermer" <***@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu>
wrote in message news:9ihtee$7ib$***@uwm.edu...

From: Paul B (***@zfree.co.nz)
Subject: Re: Jerry's Dog Training Manual
Date: 2001-07-12 00:13:28 PST

Hello Marshall,

The way I view it from my observation of how
my dogs react is that the distraction interrupts
the dogs thought, not for good or bad, just
interrupts, the dog is therefore distracted for
a second and then will either continue the
behaviour or do something else.

The praise reassures the dog that the sound
distraction is not a threat or punishment,
however if everytime the dog resumes a
particular behaviour it's distracted immediately
(and praised immediately for reassurance) then
it quickly decides this behaviour is not fulfilling
and it ceases.

A dog will offer another behaviour in it's place
and if that is acceptable to us then we let it be
otherwise the distraction continues until a suitable
alternate behaviour is offered.

One example, Sam used to jump up on me
when I arrived home, I would shake can to
distract him right at the moment he was
about to jump up, after about 4 repetitions
he tried sitting and offering me his paw, of
course this was fine so I let it be.

While the concept of shake cans is not new,
I haven't read any other advice that says to
praise immediately regardless of what the
dog does next (the common advice is to
praise once the dog is doing a desired
behaviour or at least stopped the unwanted
behaviour), this is unique to Jerry (and Marilyn)
and from my own experiences is an important
part of the process.
Thanks Paul! He does recommend praising
a dog for barking, but he appears to recognize
that this may not work and so distraction
Until i read the Jerry method of Bark reductioon,
it went something like this with our 11 month old
puppy "Yoshi"
Yoshi: Bark, bark,
us: HUSH Youshi
Yoshi Bark, bark......................
us: Hush Youshi
Yoshi BARK, BARK, BARK, .................................i
it stopped when Yoshi got tired barking
We decided to try the Jerry method
:Yoshi: BARK, BARK
US: GOOD Yoshi, Good Boy, who is it?
Yoshi Bark, Bark
US: It's ok, good boy Yoshi, We know them
Yosh without fail, now stops after we say that
I must say, it is so much more fun, when we
can praise him, to deal with things like this
Thanks Jerry
ps: We are just starting to go thru the Jerry
Papers, and learn how to live with our son
"Yoshi", whom we love very much.
--
Best Regards,
Estel J. Hines
==============

HOWEDY Brandy,

"Brandy Kurtz" <***@wmconnect.com> wrote in message news:***@posting.google.com...

Well I just printed out the Amazing Puppy Wizard info,
so I haven't actually started to train yet.

Today a salesman knocked on the door, and Pokey
was going balisstic. I calmly go to the window to see
who it is, and off-handly say Good Boy, It's a stranger,
Good Boy. Pokey shut right up, gave me a quizical
look, and came and sat beside my feet! OMG, I could
not believe it!

I was totally floored, as this has been his
behavior since a pup. Just wanted to update,
and Pokey and I are hitting the sack...;
Brandy
If you understand behavioral science and dogs,
Like professor SCRUFF SHAKE dermer of UofWI and
his punk thug coward dog abusing pal dr. plonsky?
you see where he can hit the mark with a gullible
idiot or two but piss everyone else off.
You mean those GUILLIBLE IDIOTS who CURED ALL temperament
and behavior problems NEARLY INSTANTLY, by ONLY PRAISING?

LIKE THIS?:

From: "nicole" <To: "Jerald D. Howe">
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 10:46 AM
Subject: Off to a good start!

Hi Jerald, Just wanted to tell you we read
your manual and have started working with
the dogs...

"Chloe" (the one we adopted--a. k. a.
"The Destroyer") has already shown
great improvement! (In Just 1 DAY!)

She responds even better than our other
(better-behaved) dog "Poe".

We tried out the surrogate toy technique, and
not a thing was touched when we got back!

We were both surprised because Chloe isn't
that interested in toys and was still very uptight
about us reaching for the door... anyway, it
seemed to work.

We both work all day today so we'll see
how that goes... Regardless, we will be
cool as cukes when we get home! ;)

I'm just so thankful we might have a chance
to get through to her! We're very excited about
her progress thus far...

Thank You!

Nicole, Michael, Poe and especially Chloe!

__________________________________


Subject: Re: Lab/Rot 11 Months (TEMPER PROBLEMS)
Date: 2004-05-21 19:22:05 PST

"Zack Pellers" <***@GUESSWHERE.cc>
wrote in message
***@towson.edu (Derek) wrote in news:
***@posting.google.com:

Your dog needs to be retrained. Contact Mr. Jerry Howe.

Http://www.DoggyDoRight.com

You can start by downloading the free training
manual available on the site above. I used it on
my 4 year old Fila Brasileiro.

When I first brought him home from rescue, he
was similar to the way you decribed your dog.
After using Mr. Howe's training method, the dog
was cured within 72 hours.

-Jack
AND don't confuse getting sick and tired of trying
to drag you kicking and screaming onto the clue bus
as fear.
O.K.... you could always use distraction and
praise to EXXXTINGUISH ANY undesirable behavior.

LIKE THIS:

Date: 5/22/03 11:24:35 PM Eastern
Daylight Time
From: ***@cfl.rr.com
To: ***@aol.com

Well, let me tell you, your Wits' End
Dog Training Method works.

My dog, Dasie, Loves to chase chameleons
around the barbecue on the patio. I
used this system on four different occasions.

When she went out today, she looked
everywhere else but the barbecue.
Amazing, just amazing.

I will write to Amanda about the video.

I am really excited to learn more, and
understand. Maybe just a little reassurance
that I am going about it the right way.

Thanks again
Paul
Hi !
Our black lab girl is 3 months old (she will be 4 months
on the 30th).
When we first brought her home she had a bad habit
of trying to nip our faces (including my 3 year old twins)
during playtime. It drove everyone in the house nuts
and it brought my little girls to tears as you can imagine.
We tried saying no, and that would just get her even
more excited, so we would yell no and that would just
get her "scared" but still excited. In short it just wasn't
working.
So we finally did what Jerry has suggested to you.
We used a sound do distract her and we would
immediately praise her.
I have to say that it worked great. BUT she then
moved on to nipping at the feet LOL silly little thing.
So again, we tried no, and then louder no, but again
it didn't work so we went for the distraction and praise.
I must say that she is doing great!
I hope that helps.
Edyta aka Ned
===================

AND LIKE THIS:

Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 9:06 AM

Hello.

I never posted here (or anywhere) before.
I never trained or owned a dog before this
year.

I downloaded the Wit's End, read it, corresponded
with Mr. Howe and trained my dog to come and to
stop barking in a weekend.

Our dog, Jake, had been treated with kindness the
whole time we had him, about 10 months, but his
earlier life is unknown.

I worked on the hot-cold exercise for about 30
minutes when he suddenly "got it". After that
he came to me every time with no hesitation.

I used the cans filled with pennies to teach him
not to bark. If he now starts to bark, I go to the
door or window, say "Good Boy, its' alright" and
he usually calms down right away.

A couple of times I had to get the cans
out again to reinforce the behavior.

We feel a strong bond with this animal
and he is very eager to accept our love.

So with all the vitriolic spewing going on,
I have to believe Mr. Howe is right.

His method worked for us.

I don't know if it would have been quite
as effective if we had tried another method first.

Florence
------------------------------------

But THAT AIN'T NECESSARY if you use THIS:

Date: 2001-11-14 09:13:21 PST
Hi!
I have downloaded Wit's End Dog Training Method...
In there there is that trick with a toy about "Separation
anxiety surrogate toy technique."
Anybody has tried that... I would like to give it a try with
my GSP (German shorthair.....pointer)
Comments? Yves Dussault
Yves,

I for one have tried it... in fact I use this all the time. I
just used it last evening while my husband and I went
out to see "The Mummy Returns" (a horrible turkey of
a movie, but at least the house wasn't chewed from
end to end in the meantime).

Yes, it really works. :-) So do the other distraction/praise
techniques described therein.

If you are interested in the manual, you will probably want to
begin the exercises as well.

Regards,
Lisa

===========

LIKE THAT, paula.
LynnK fears no one
Then HOWE COME she takes ANTI PSYCHOTIC MEDS for
twenty years with NO SUCCESS, paula?

LIKE THIS:

WORDS OF WISDOM
from our own Lynn Kosmakos
1200mg Of Lithium And 50 mg Of Zoloft Every Day
For Twenty Years

I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM

"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder (manic-depression)
requiring 1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every day.
I, also, care about dogs and use this forum to learn more,
while happily sharing pertinent information I have learned.

But if I were ever to post such sh*t, I would hope that every
other reader of this group would be rightfully outraged."

"Community is an evolutionary thing that we earn
the right to participate in by observing the easily
understood rules and contributing to in constructive ways."

Lynn K.

---------------------
and would match dog training skills with just about anyone.
You mean, LIKE THIS?:

lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.

- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.
Lynn K.

"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn.

"Unfortunately, some confrontation is necessary,
just to be able to handle the dogs. For example,
we need to crate train a dog immediately because
they are usually in need of medical care and they
are in foster homes with other dogs.

It's a safety necessity," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.

"You Lying Sack Of Dung.When Have I Ever Said
Anything About Using A Prong Collar, Or Any Collar
Correction At All, To Make Dogs Friendly To House
Cats? Don't bother. The answer is never," lying "I
LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.

lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn writes about kats and dogs:

"This Article Is Something We've Put Together
For SF GSD Rescue

From: Lynn Kosmakos (***@home.com)
Subject: Re: I have a dog he has cats
Date: 1999/11/20
How can I get him to quit chasing the cats.
Okay - this is going to be a bit loooong - Lynn K.

"Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog. Don't
forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong works
better than a choke with less chance of injury to the dog in
this situation.

Electronics can be used to create an aversion to cats, but
should be used under the direction of a trainer who knows how
to instruct the owner in their proper use. Electronics can
take the form of shock, sonic or citronella collars. At that
time the owner will train with electronics instead of food or
whatever other reward system was being used."

8) Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog.
Don't forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong
works better than a choke with less chance of injury to the
dog in this situation. Have the dog in a sit-stay next to
you with most of the slack out of the leash and let the cat
walk through the room and up to the dog if it wishes (this is
why you have the dog muzzled).

If the dog makes an aggressive move towards the
cat, it must be corrected strongly with both your
voice and the collar.

This is important - the correction must be physically
very strong - not a nag. (PS: not many dogs need
to be corrected at all)."

---------------

Or did you mean your punk thug coward mental case
pal lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn's SKILL as an SAR
dog trainer and "The Glory Of Achieving Difficult
Things With Dogs" lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.?

Let's have a LOOK SEE at her own POSTED CASE HISTORY
of HURTING and INTIMDATING and RUINING her own SELECTIVELY
BRED HAND PICKED and TESTED SAR candidate JIVE who STILL
can't even work a sheep trial on accHOWENT of SHE CAN'T
CHOKE and SHOCK IT when IT is HOWETA RANGE or on a SAR
site or IN A SHEEP TRIAL?

BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!
The fact that you keep assuming that she would only
do so with a choke chain is disingenuous, untrue and
asinine.
Well then JUST CITE WON INSANCE where your punk
thug coware mental case pal lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn HASN'T USED pain fear force intimidation avoidance
and MURDER to TRAIN ANY dog for ANY behavior, paula?
She knows when a choke chain is the best tool
to use for a certain purpose
You mean to HURT and INTIMIDATE dogs, paula.
and when praise, treats, voice, tug or any other
thing would work better with the particular dog.
You mean MIXING PAIN FEAR FORCE and BRIBERY
with PRAISE AFTER THE FACT, paula?
She works with dogs that you wouldn't be
able to approach without worrying that
you would get mauled
SHE MURDERS THEM, paula.
and she doesn't beat them into submission.
RIGHT. SHE JERKS and CHOKES them on pronged
spiked pinch choke collars and SHOCKS and
beats them with her training stick and LIES
abHOWET IT JUST LIKE HOWE YOU DO, paula you
lying dog abusing mental case.
She communicates with dogs,
You mean, LIKE THIS:

lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.

- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.
Lynn K.

"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn.

"Unfortunately, some confrontation is necessary,
just to be able to handle the dogs. For example,
we need to crate train a dog immediately because
they are usually in need of medical care and they
are in foster homes with other dogs.

It's a safety necessity," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.

"You Lying Sack Of Dung.When Have I Ever Said
Anything About Using A Prong Collar, Or Any Collar
Correction At All, To Make Dogs Friendly To House
Cats? Don't bother. The answer is never," lying "I
LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.

lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn writes about kats and dogs:

"This Article Is Something We've Put Together
For SF GSD Rescue

From: Lynn Kosmakos (***@home.com)
Subject: Re: I have a dog he has cats
Date: 1999/11/20
How can I get him to quit chasing the cats.
Okay - this is going to be a bit loooong - Lynn K.

"Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog. Don't
forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong works
better than a choke with less chance of injury to the dog in
this situation.

Electronics can be used to create an aversion to cats, but
should be used under the direction of a trainer who knows how
to instruct the owner in their proper use. Electronics can
take the form of shock, sonic or citronella collars. At that
time the owner will train with electronics instead of food or
whatever other reward system was being used."
like the rest of us
INDEEDY! And THAT'S HOWE COME you MENTAL CASES can't
post here abHOWETS nodoGgamenedMOORE, paula <{); ~ ) >
who don't just see dogs as object to manipulate do.
Lynn K. wrote:

"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in
one shelter.) But their ability to set their own
schedules and duties causes a great deal of
scheduling overhead.

And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
volunteers get the meaningful experience that
they work for.

Someone has to be responsible for that
Volunteer Program, and it is best done
by a non-volunteer."

Lynn K.

"I worked with one shelter where I bathed and groomed
every adoptable dog on intake. I frankly felt that the
effort/benefit equation was not balanced for some of the
older/ill poodle/terrier mixes we got in badly matted condition.

Should I have refused to groom them?

Or even more pertinent - I was one of the people who
had to make the euthanasia decisions at that shelter."

Lynn K.

--------------------------------------

NHOWE here she's gonna lie abHOWET IT:

Baghdad Bob <Baghdadbob> wrote in message
<news:***@TeraNews>...

Lynn, looks like he got you there if these quotes are true.

In the posts below you take responsibility for making those calls.

In your post above, you state you do not make those calls.

Which one is it?
We see training as teaching a dog how to communicate
with us and paying attention to what the dog is trying
to communicate as well as teaching the dog to pay attention
to what we are trying to communicate to it.
THEN HOWE COME SHE HURTS INTIMDIATES AND MURDERS DOGS JUST
LIKE HOWE YOU DO, paula you freakin MENTAL CASE?
And, as for challenges, Jerry has repeatedly been
asked to meet up with people in real life
Like Amanda and her two Pit Bulls, Leprechaun
and his FEAR AGGRESSIVE RESCUE dog, and Professora
Daniel and her dog Sunsine, and Aimee and Axel, paula?
and show how his training would be better,
even by someone who lives in his area.
You mean leah, paula. SHE'S A DOG ABUSING LYING MENTAL
CASE, like yourself and lying 'I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.

HER ENDORSEMENT WOULD BE THE KISS OF DEATH, paula.

REMEMBER?
He has repeatedly refused.
ON ACCHOWENT OF: "You're JUDGED BY the company
you keep. When you lie with PIGS you'll awaken
STINKIN like 'm. When you get bagged for LYING
you're MARKED FOR LIFE," The Puppy Wizard's DADDY.
Apparently, he prefers to only give the same advice
On accHOWENT of IT'S ALL THE SAME SAME when you
RELY on EFFECTIVE SCIENTIFIC and PSYCHOLOGICAL
CONDITIONING techniques, paula.
and quote the half percent that it works on
"IT WORKS" on ALL dogs, as Dr. Von SEZ, paula.
because they had the right dog
A DOG IS A DOG, paula.
with the right issues
ALL BEHAVIOR and TEMPERAMENT PROBLEMS are CAUSED
BY MISHANDLING, paula. THAT'S HOWE COME YOU FEAR
and HATE The Amazing Puppy Wizard, paula.
for the right reasons
On accHOWENT of DECENT PEOPLE DO NOT HURT
and INTIMDIATE innocent dumb critters like
HOWE you and your punk thug coward mental
case pals do, paula <{): ~ ) >
and then ignore everyone else.
YOU MEAN THE MENTAL CASES ON THE CLUE BUS, paula?
You can do that on the net, but it doesn't fly when
you are in real life with real dogs and cameras rolling.
BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!
Lynn, OTOH, trains real people in public areas and
is not afraid who sees what she is or is not able to
accomplish and what methods she uses to accomplish what
she does.
THEN HOWE COME SHE LIES ABHOWET IT, JUST LIKE
HOWE YOU DO, paula, you dog abusing mental case?
See a difference?
NOPE. You're all cut off the same cloth, paula.

THAt'S HOWE COME you can't post here abHOWETS
nodoGgamenedMOORE. REMEMBER you freakin lying
dog abusing punk thug coward MENTAL CASE?
Those lurkers out there with questions hopefully can.
INDEEDY.

AND THAT'S HOWE COME YOU'LL DO AND SAY ANYTHING
to DEFEND your alleged RIGHT to HURT INTIMDIATE
and MURDER innocent critters and call it RESCUE
and SHELTER and FOSTER care. REMEMBER NHOWE?
I hope they can at least figure out that there are
trainers here as well as family pet training novices
who can actually name dogs they have worked with and
what they have done with them.
He was next to me and I could see his neck
muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.
Janet Boss
I can't imagine needing anything higher
than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive
dog like a Lab.
An INSENSITIVE DOG???
I can't remember what model of Innotek I have, but
I had apointer ignore a neck-muscle-pulsing 9.
I'm starting to specialize in frou frou lap dogs. :}
You mean, like BICHONS?:

"It was kind of funny, in an absurd way. The rabbit
was completely still, eyes open and glazed, dried
blood in his ears and mouth, with his back legs
stiffening quickly.

It was her pet rabbit, not a wild bunny, so
that made it much harder for her.

And he was killed by bichons.

Her dogs had torn it apart. My one student who had
shown up (another weird thing about the night) and I
had to continuously check for heart and bowel sounds
for her, until she could accept that the rabbit was dead.

(The rigor mortis in his back legs she attributed to "pain").

Full moon.

Canine Action Dog Trainer
http://www.canineaction.com
Then she mentioned the names of her dogs,
and I immediately remembered them.
YOUR STUDENT, leah.
I will always remember the dogs.
Yeah. You and ed w of PET LOSS dot COIN.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard has DISCREDITED
nearly EVERY trainer and behaviorist in the Whole
Wild World and has CURED ALL temperament
and behavior and MOST HEELTH PROBLEMS by
simply NOT ABUSING CRITTERS CHILDREN SP-
HOWESES EMPLOYEES EMPLOYERS FERAL
KATS and VAGABONDS.

But The Amazing Puppy Wizard relentlessly
DEFENDS the OPPRESED and ATTACKS
ABUSERS with THEIR OWN WRITTEN WORDS.
And as long as they're treated like dogs,
A DOG IS A DOG, dog abuser:

"The Methods, Principles, And Philosophy Of Behavior
Never Change,
Or They'd Not Be Scientific And Could Not Obtain
Consistent, Reliable, Fast, Effective Results
For All Handler's And All Dogs,
NEARLY INSTANTLY,
As Taught In Your FREE Copy Of The Puppy Wizard's
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual,"
The Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >
Jerry can name every negative thing he has heard or
made up about the people here,
CITE WON LIE, paula.
yet he has no memory or space in his billion line posts
to talk about a single dog that he has trained or is
training personally
You mean OTHER than Ron Flanagan aka Leprechaun,
Amanda, Professora Daniel and Aimee and Axel?

From: AIMEE (***@yahoo.com)
Subject: House training and such...
Date: 2003-10-08 16:18:56 PST

I've been having a problem with my dog, Axel,
relieving himself in the house while I'm away
from home.

I've used TPW method's, and yesterday I was out
for 12 hours, and Axel didn't have one single "accident".

Today, I had hoped that the results would be just as
good - and they were (I was out for 11 hours).

The problem began when, as a puppy, Axel would
relieve himself in the house and I would point at the
mess and tell him "NO" or "Bad Dog".

That made him afraid to relieve himself in the house
or infront of me.

After I got TPW's training manual, I corrected my
mishandling of these instances.

When I came home to an "accident", I would simply
drop a can near the area and ask Axel "What's that?"
Then I would clean it up - with out showing him I was
the least bit upset about the mess, and when he looked
at the spot I would tell him "Good boy, you're a good dog".

This has been an ongoing problem, and thanks to the
Puppy Wizard, we've finally got it taken care of...

Also, Axel LOVES the cat's litter box...He enjoys the
"snacks" he can find in there...I followed TPW's methods
by alternating sounds and praising him while or before
he sticks his nose in it, and today, he's been going into
the room with the cat box and barking. That's because
he's thinking about getting into the box, but he knows he
shouldn't.

Thank you, Jerry, for all you help. You've been a
blessing to all of us.

AIMEE

===================

From: AIMEE (***@yahoo.com):

I own a black an tan coonhound. We got him as a puppy, and
due to constant mishandling (pulling on his lead, negative
corrections, and the occasional use of a bark collar) I ended
up with a very anxious dog.

I couldn't leave him home alone, I couldn't crate him, I
couldn't even take my dog for walks because he feared
EVERYTHING.

I was going to have to get rid of him if things
didn't turn around.

My husband and I searched the internet for answers -
AND WE FOUND THE PUPPY WIZARD.

For all of you disbeliveers out there HIS METHODS WORK!

I've followed his manual, and we now have a dog
that can be left home alone, that heels on command,
that can go outside and NOT be afraid of everything
he sees.

Not only have his methods helped our dog, but our
marriage has gotten better. We had fallen into a
rut - constant bickering and tension, we never laughed
or had FUN together - but now, with the same mindset
used in THE PUPPY WIZARDS dog training, our
communications channels have opened, and we now
work together instead of against one another.

For all the "Literalists" out there, NO WE DID NOT
TEACH EACH OTHER TO SIT, STAY, OR HEEL.

We simply eliminated the nagging and the acting
out to get NEGATIVE attention from one another
since we weren't getting the POSITIVE attention
we wanted.

So, it's been proven - THE PUPPY WIZARDS METHODS WORK.

It's up to you to accept them. Yes, there's alot of
blame that we have to accept, but once we realize that
we've caused these problems to arise, we can strive to
make things better.

AIMEE

=================
or even to say a thing about liking dogs.
BWEEEEAAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!
I guess he learned his lesson when he tried to
pretend he trained protection dogs and all he could
come up> with was how he trained them so "well" that
their temperatures spiked to dangerous levels and they
were shitting themselves.
You mean LIKE THIS?:

That's been verified as NORMAL by lying frosty
dahl (who would't REVEAL the INFORMATION when
it was being discussed by your MENTALLY ILL PAL
marybeth [who likeWIZE posted HUNDREDS of daily
and weekly warnins abHOWET The Amazing Puppy
Wizard, at least until Soup reearched her MENTAL
ILLNESS CASE HISTORY and she ain't been seen here
since!]) and Misty, who's DEAD DOG Peaches GOT
DEAD on accHOWENT of you and marybeth and ed w
of PETLOSS.CON LYIN to her not to TRUST The
Amazing Puppy Wizard, who researched it on her
own:

"Studies from the Sports MEdicine center at Auburn
indicate that the temperature of a working Lab routinely
rises to 106 in the course of about ten minutes' work.
The dog then needs to cool off as sustained high
temperature can be dangerous.

Amy Dahl <***@oakhillkennel.com> wrote:
"There are some interesting studies of body temperature.
A working Lab's body temperature apparently goes up to
about 106 within the first ten minutes of work."

The ONLY DIFFERENCE is, those dogs are having
a visceral response to being BEATEN CHOKED and
SHOCKED, not on accHOWENT of their kindly gently
handler is being THREATENED, paula... you lying
dog abusing punk thug coward MENTAL CASE.
So, now that making things up backfired,
CITE WON, paula... JUST WON please?
he has learned, through OC, by the way, not CC,
to stop making up training stories.
CITE WON, paula. JUST WON.
And he is left with no dog stories at all.
The Amazing Puppy Wizard DON'T NEED to "TELL
STORIES" paula, HIS 100% CONSITENTLY NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog
Training Method Manual Students ALL OVER The
WHOWEL WILD WORLD REPORT the MOST INCREDIBLE
stories. YOU CALL THEM LIARS and FORGERIES.

REMEMBER NHOWE?
He has no idea how to communicate with a dog,
BWEEEEEEEEEEAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!
only how to babble at one.
YOU MEAN PRAISE, paula?
Even where CC works, it is sad to think
that is all dogs are about.
You mean, that DOGS JUST WANNA HAVE FUN,
like KIDS an LADIES, paula?
I personally don't believe he lives with any
THIS AIN'T abHOWET The Amazing Puppy Wizard's
dogs, paula. THIS is abHOWET YOUR ABUSED DOGS.
and I certainly don't believe he has ever loved any dogs.
The Amazing Puppy Wizard is COLD AS ICE, paula.
--
Paula
From: "Larry M Male" <***@yahoo.com
To: "The Puppy Wizard" <***@EarthLink.Net
Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2004 12:44 PM
Subject: Re: Cocker with ear infection

Thanks Jerry,

I enjoyed the scientific discussion debunking
operant conditioning for teaching thinking animals.
Humans think by forming concepts. All of their
knowledge is held as a hierarchy of concepts
(more complex concepts defined in terms of
simpler ones). In my mind, to treat such a being
as a B. F. Skinner robot is criminal.

I don't believe that dogs hold their knowledge
as concepts as do humans but their ability to
think is unquestionable.

Operantconditioning doesn't utilize an animal's
ability to think. When you show a dog what you
want them to do, then they are able to grasp the
problem; they are able to think about it and to
integrate possible solutions into their mind.

But with operant conditioning a trainer is actually
hiding the problem to be solved from the animal.

For example, it is good for your dog's attention to
be upon you. When heeling, he will notice your
movements, your subtle hand signals, your facial
expressions and he will immediately sense your
next command. But the clicker trainers have forgotten
the reasons why a dog's attention should be upon you.

So they condition a dog to unnaturally cock his head
to stare upward at you. The dog doesn't appreciate
the meaning of this and neither does the trainer. Since
this unnatural behavior is prized in the obedience ring,
the clicker trainers are motivated to condition it.

Don't you think that the "high five" hand shake that
clicker trainers use to motivate novices looks like a
Nazi salute (an unthinking reflex). It is not at all like
a warm hand shake from a loving companion, is it?

Some of your testimonials bring tears to my eyes. I
love to see how some "thinking" people appreciate
your methods.

--Larry


WONZIES And TWOZIES The Most Particular
Smug Hip Young Urban Suburban Metro Yuppy
Pet Puppys From Generations OF Generations
Of Selectively Bred Hand Picked Of Champion
Lines Bred And Delivered By Hand To The Hip
Young Metro Urban Sububan Yuppys And The Kids
Named Them Themselves, WONZIES an TWOZIES!

I bought The Family 2 identical twin PUPPYS,
WON fuzzy WON smooth WON white an WON
brHOWEN they was brothers and sisters from
a breeder of litters who had enough puppys to
please the most particular smug hip young urban
suburban metro Yuppy pet puppy buyers needs
for generations of generations of selectively bred
hand picked of champion lines they was bred and
delivered by hand to the hip young metro urban
sububan Yuppys and the kids named them themselves,
WONZIES an TWOZIES!

HOWE GRAND life is for HOWER pups an HOWER kids us
smug young hip urban suburban metro Yuppies!

That made HOWER cottage complete, WON sports car
for ME, WON SUV for the Crew, WON small boat for the
lake and a scooter or two for times when we ain't got
NUTHIN better to do, WON boy, WON girl an WON
Mrs. and ME and the white picket fences with all that
could be and all of the fixins an us an HOWER two
designer PUPPYS an KIDS safely ensconsed behind
electronically charged security bars sharin good times
unconditional love and a weiner or cheeses and pats
in trade for HOWER share of sloppy cold wet puppy
noses an kisses and scratches when we're in the mood
and got changed HOWETA of HOWER clothes and
prepared for the mud and whatever STUFF the pups
put in their MHOWETHS even when there wasn't nuthin
layin abHOWET <{) ; ~ ) >

We went to the vets to care for HOWER pets like
HOWE generations of generations of responsible
smug young hip urban suburban metro Yuppy pet
puppy owners should do. We was told to INNOCULTE
SCHOOL SPAY an NEUTER HOWER pups an to
teach them manners an grow themselves up an spare
them from sex and inbred cur pups and chop off their
ears tails an thumb nails and what not and lock them
both up in matchin designer cages called dens for
HOWEstrainin HOWER new family of four NHOWE six
two adults two pups an two kids livin as equal family
kin in the good life as generation of generations of
smug young hip urban suburban metro Yuppie puppy owners
in the information superhighway computer age will do.

Of curse we'll do ANY THING to heelp HOWER pups on accHOWENT
of they're JUST LIKE HOWER KIDS an that's enough it's all up
to us generations of generations of selectively bred hand
picked smug young hip urban suburban metro Yuppys doin that
American thing that we do for all livin creatures and others
less capable critters dependent on us and on the advice of
HOWER vet got the stuff we needed for pets he had them on
hand and fitted the stuff we'd need for the kids to train
them an such, it'll be good experience for the kids to
learn respect for livin critters and sold us pronged spiked
pinch choke shock and spray collars and halters and leashes
and set us all up with his friend the certified behavior
therapist a university trained smug young hip urban suburban
metro Yuppy pet puppy owner's psychological guide to the mind
of the smug hip young urban suburban metro Yuppy pet owner's
puppys for generations of generations of selectively bred hand
picked smug young hip urban suburban metro Yuppy pet puppys and
kids to learn responsiblilty with.

The trainer sez two pups is too much for the kids an
for us responsible smug young hip urban suburban
metro Yuppy pet puppy family pet puppy family pack.

It'd been better he sez if we'd had calmer pups in their
stead or had experience pryor of curse and didn't we
know pups should never be alone an must be supervised
at all times and advised that we must give WON of
them up but not a problem we'll maybe make a few
bucks in the TRAINsaction since we fixed up the pups
at his friend the vets an next year we might get to try
and invite another new pet on trial a foster puppy to
see what we get when this WON is all grown up an
responsive to ME an taught right from wrong and can
train the new puppy like his mom woulda done him an
his sis had they grown up with their kin instead of in
this the manner of priveleged smug young hip generations
of generations of hip young urban suburban metro Yuppy
responsibe puppy pet family HOWESES filled to the brim
with kids and kats and stuff two pups can't be left alone
in to fend for themeselves on despite generations of
generations of selectively bred hand picked smug young
hip urban suburban metro Yuppy's pet puppys doin it as
had generations of generation of selectively bred hand
picked smug young hip urban suburban metro Yuppy's pet
puppys had done for generation of generations of selectively
bred hand picked smug hip urban suburban metro Yuppy pet
puppys have done...

So NHOWE WONZIE'S TWO and HOWER new TWOZIE'S WON an
thinks he's grown up and can try dominating WON and
WONZIE LOST an TWOZIE WON who REALLY IS THREEZIE not
meanin to CONfHOWEND everyWON but pryorities gotta
be set and the pups need be kept far apart and THAT
ain't so EZ if they're able to see his brother or
sister but it don't matter noHOWE on accHOWENT of
they ain't never had known gender or nuthin like that
since they left their mothers they lost the body parts
they didn't need on accHOWENT of that's the responsible
thing for generations of generations of selectively bred
hand picked smug young hip urban suburban metro Yuppy's
pet puppys to do.

The pups they'd be GREAT if they could stay in their
crates and not whine and cry an fight with their brothers
or sisters and crap the HOWESES or murder their kats
and bunnys and bite the kids or mailman or neighbors
or their critters and get in the way of the fast day to day
pace the lifestyle of the generations of generations of
selectively bred hand picked and tested smug young
hip generations of generations of urban suburban metro
Yuppy pet puppys we've catered to followin the BEST
advice from the best resources to be had the net of
information superhighway endorses.

The trainer the vet sent us to sez we got LUCKY
again as TWOZIE who's THREEZIE is all trained
and responsive to ME an liver an cheeses and chokin
for proofin. He'll find IT a HOWES with his friend whom
he's pleased to tell us with confidence his pal has dealt
with other recalcitrant puppies with dominant alphalpha genes.

He's taken at least three or four of the worst dogs
he's known like this second third puppy we bought and
took to the vet and got what you get when you listen to
folks who tell us to jerk an choke and lock HOWER puppys
in boxes and coax them with bribes and withold praise and
affection and surgically mutilate and shock and spray
aversives and choke and ignore them locked in boxes and
teach HOWER kids to hurt and intimdiate them and call it
trainin an socialization of the most particular smug hip
young urban suburban metro Yuppy pet puppy buyers needs
for generations of generations of selectively bred hand
picked of champion lines they was bred and delivered by
hand to the hip young metro urban sububan Yuppys and the
kids named them themselves, WONZIES an TWOZIES!

***@Animail.Net

Obedience for Puppies
The Amazing Puppy Wizard
Jan 25, 3:42 pm
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 18:51:45 GMT
Subject: Obedience for Puppies
More questions from a soon-to-be Aussie owner.
HOWEDY jodi,

Well that's PREDICTABLE. You'l be havin
MOORE QUESTIONS as long as you rely
on the advice of these lying dog abusing
punk thug coward mental cases.
My husband and I are getting an 8-week puppy on Feb 5th.
DESPITE that Scott & Fuller and The Amazing
Puppy Wizard AGREE that pups belon in their
new HOWESES at six weeks if possible.
The obedience classes we want to take
LeeCharlesKelly was just EXXXPLAININ HOWE
COME the METHODS "taught" in "OBEDIENCE
CLASSES" like janet boss and leah's CAUSE ALL
TEMPERAMENT and BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS.

You can SEE THAT in THEIR OWN POSTED CASE HISTORIES.

But you WON'T LOOK on accHOWENT of
you're gonna have a SHOWE DOG like the
WON susan fraser JUST RUINED thans to
her TRADITIONAL CHOKING SHOCKING
EAR TWISTING and BEATING.
her to start around the beginning of March.
Your dog would be FULLY TRAINED in a few
days if you DIDN'T DO NUTHIN that these
lying dog abusing punk thug cowards and
active long term incurable MENTAL CASES
do to their own dogs.
So, for the month before classes start I want
to be working with our puppy and teaching
her the basics (come, sit, etc)...
Oh. So you're askin LYING DOG ABUSING
MENTAL CASES HOWE to do that?
but I really don't have a good idea of where to
begin (basically, I need the obedience classes
as much as the dog, because I don't know how
to train her).
Well then, just READ marie's or melanie's
or mauijnp's or diane bergman's POSTED
CASE HISTORIES.
What kinds of things can I do with my puppy
that will be a good foundation for the classes
we will attend
You gotta start by fillin HOWET your MENTAL
HEELTH CASE HISTORY and current CRAZY
PERSON STATUS and FILE IT with CEO /
DIRECTOR MENTALLY ILL AFFAIRS and
ACTIVITES aka Soup so's someWON DON'T
HURT YOUR SENSITIVE FEELINS.
(positive reinforcement)?
You mean bribery and avoidance.
What are some common mistakes that
people make when trying to train a new puppy?
Posting questions here abHOWETS and gettin trainin
and handling advice from PROFESSIONALS and VETERINARIANS
are usually their first AND LAST, mistakes...

The Amazing Puppy Wizard <{); ~ ) >
T***@Mail.Com
2005-08-03 22:45:45 UTC
Permalink
HOWEDY shelly,

Thanks for playin a little CUT THROAT POKE HER
with The Amazing Puppy Wizard's CLAQUER, or
Thank you for accepting to discuss the method with me,
Marcel. Now, could we be more specific? Let's, for instance,
choose a particular behavior and see how the two kinds of
training work. I had suggested the digging in the sofa, but
anything else would do. So what's your choice?
okaythen, using Jerry's "method,"
You mean the METHODS Jerry PLAGIARIZED, the
dangerHOWES WON that DOESN'T WORK, that'd
been USED FOREVER till BETTER TOOLS came
abHOWET, like your pronged spiked pinch
choke collar, shelly, you freakin MENTAL
CASE?
how do you teach recall/
The come command is INSTALLED as a CONDITIONAL REFLEX.
Well I am happy to reply that so far after 10
minutes of work and the cans from mr Howes guide,
You mean The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits'
End Dog Training Method Manual <{); ~ ) >
I have instilled the "come" command to Riley.
Good. You mean INSTALLED the come command as
a conditional reflex. Be SHORE to perform the
EXXXORCISES four times in each of four locations.
He is an extremley smart dog, I have never had
to go to the third or fourth try.
From: "BarbnBeau" <***@cogeco.ca>
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 01:52:30 -0500
Re: Puppy Wizard's Website

Hi Buzzsaw

Not a Thing to lose ...But a Lot To Gain!!

I can only speak from my experience.. I have a 8 month
old miniature poodle, and although I had done some basic
training with him we had a few barking issues ..ugh

I am happy to tell you, I contacted Jerry at the email
addy I posted and he was so great! I wasn't following
the technique precisely but he helped me get back on track.

Beau is doing sooooo well it is really a thrill working
with him, and seeing the remarkable changes.

Now I can ask for "recall" (come) both on and off lead
and it is immediate!

the first time I ask.

Best of Luck to you,

Remember if you need help or explanation contact Jerry ..
he will be more than happy to help anyway he can.

Cheers
Barb

AND LIKE THIS:

Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 9:06 AM
Hello.

I never posted here (or anywhere) before.
I never trained or owned a dog before this
year.

I downloaded the Wit's End, read it, corresponded
with Mr. Howe and trained my dog to come and to
stop barking in a weekend.

Our dog, Jake, had been treated with kindness the
whole time we had him, about 10 months, but his
earlier life is unknown.

I worked on the hot-cold exercise for about 30
minutes when he suddenly "got it". After that
he came to me every time with no hesitation.

I used the cans filled with pennies to teach him
not to bark. If he now starts to bark, I go to the
door or window, say "Good Boy, its' alright" and
he usually calms down right away.

A couple of times I had to get the cans
out again to reinforce the behavior.

We feel a strong bond with this animal
and he is very eager to accept our love.

So with all the vitriolic spewing going on,
I have to believe Mr. Howe is right.

His method worked for us.

I don't know if it would have been quite
as effective if we had tried another method first.

Florence


To: Jerry Howe
Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 2:37 PM
Subject: Re: dog aggression - Today Seemed Like A Miracle -
WELCOME TO WITS' END DOG TRAI

Sunshine is still acting like a new dog! Saw a dog
today and "good boy-" worked along with calling him-
came the first time every time. Not even a sound out
of him. Think it is hard for him but he never even
seemed to think about going off-reacting. I would
love to write a testimonial but can not seem to find
the site--please send the address--

The word come has no affect on him just the phrase-
-Sunshine come goodboy.

OR LIKE THIS:

Hi, Jerry.

I'm not sure that I'm a 100% convert, or that I agree
with (or even understand) 100% of what you say in this
manual ... BUT ... we had "come" down pat in a few
reps and you could have knocked me down when I tried
the exercise with "drop" and, after a few reps in
different spots Darwin practically *threw* the rubber
ball at my feet on command. He's still not perfect
(just a pup, after all, and he's stubborn enough to
want to push and test me a little bit more).

For what it's worth, I can see (as no doubt you have)
how your usenet manner is likely to rankle a few
folks, but that woman who advocates ear pulling and
beating with sticks deserves everything she gets. Even
if that was the only method that would work, I'd live
with my dog not fetching rather than do any of that.
(Darwin fetches enthusiastically and instinctively,
tho').

Best, ben

===================

AND LIKE THIS:

From: <>
To: "Jerry Howe" <***@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2002 5:21 PM
Subject: Re: Damned Family Leadership Exercise -

Re: Am I expecting to much

Hi Jerry,

When I talked to you on the phone to order to machine
for daughter's new pup, I told you that I had an older
Chessie. I rescued him at 9 years old and have had
him for 3 years.

It's funny, but I thought I'd try some of your book
training with him. Where I used to say "come" and
then say "good boy" when he obeyed, I have reversed
it with a "good boy" first.

It really does work.

He was very confused at first, wondering what he
had done to get the praise.

But it really gets the attention and distracts him from
whatever he may have going through his brain when
he hears it.

Dogs are funny, but people are too. Can't wait to get
the Doggy do Right, etc.

Thanks,
N
=========
place/sit/down/wait/stay?
IT'S ALL THE SAME SAME, shelly you LYING DOG
ABUSING PUNK THUG COWARD MENTAL CASE <{); ~ ) >

HOWEver, The Amazing Puppy Wizard likeWIZE teaches
ALL HIS 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual Students
to do those other commands using NO S-HOWEND and PRAISE,
only using BODY LANGUAGE PRAISE and TIMING. IN FACT, The
Amazing Puppy Wizard will wager $100.00 HE can train ANY
dog to heel sit and stay for WON minute in FIVE MINUTES
FLAT. HIS STUDENTS usually require 15-30 minutes to do
likeWIZE... shelly.

LIKE THIS:

"Greg M. Silverman" <***@no.umn.edu> wrote in message

Hey, Mr. Wizard, or Alchemist or whatever your alias
of the day is, have to say that our dog heels much
better than she did. This is after reading and
implementing the bit in your "Wits End" treatise.

And she's a royal nutter (but then again,
aren't they all?). Cheers! Greg--
--------------------

AND LIKE THIS:

"Hennie van Dalen" <h.vandalen11******@chello.nl>
wrote in message news:TlsCb.2895$***@amstwist00...

"There is nu punishment or prong-collars involved.
For a fact i tought him to heel in 15min's without
beeing on a leach at-all !!! When he spotted a dog,
he used to run towards it, but now i tought him to
"ask permission" first, and to my surprise it worked!"

AND LIKE THIS:

"Leprechaun" <***@attglobal.net wrote in message
news: m01Hc.20882$uK.16__BEGIN_MASK_n#9g02mG7!__...__END_
Jerry believes he's a dog trainer.
Fortunately, I happen to believe he is too.
I took a rescued three year old beagle that
had been kept outside all of its life that didn't
even recognize or respond to its name to
Jerry's home (That ugly cinder block shack???
get real) and in just over one hour of working
with the dog, he was coming on command
(not a quickly as he does now, but still...) and
walking with us on a loose lead.

His "hot/cold" exercise and "come when called"
command and pack exercise WORK!
and in all likelihood he's never even been near a dog.
Well, he's been near mine, and done wonders for him.

You don't have to like him. You don't have
to agree with his methods, but as far as I
am concerned, I've never seen any other
training approach that was as fast and easy.

<<<< Rest of original post deleted

Ron Flanagan
Orlando, Florida

-----------------------
and, how can Jerry's "method" be tailored to work
THAT'S THE SECRET TO THE SCIENCE OF BEHAVIOR, shelly.
WE DO NOT TAILOR SCIENTIFIC METHODS to suit the INDIVIDUAL.
The INDIVIDUAL is SCIENTIFICALLY CONDITIONED to RESPOND
to the SCIENTIFIC METHOD, shelly, otherWIZE, you'd have
BLIND DUMB SHEER STUPID LUCK, like doctor ian dunbar and
professor SCRUFF SHAKE and dr. mark plonsky of UofWI GET.
with sound reactive dogs
You mean, like YOURS, shelly? THERE AIN'T NO SUCH
THING as a S-HOWEND REACTIVE DOG, shelly. Dogs who
FEAR LHOWED NOISES ARE VICTIMS OF ABUSE, shelly.

THAT'S HOWE COME we can CURE fear of thunder IN WON DAY.

CONSISTENTLY, shelly.

LIKE THIS:

From: <>
To: "Jerry Howe" <***@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2002 5:21 PM
Subject: Re: Damned Family Leadership Exercise -

Re: Am I expecting to much

Hi Jerry,

When I talked to you on the phone to order to machine
for daughter's new pup, I told you that I had an older
Chessie. I rescued him at 9 years old and have had
him for 3 years.

It's funny, but I thought I'd try some of your book
training with him. Where I used to say "come" and
then say "good boy" when he obeyed, I have reversed
it with a "good boy" first.

It really does work.

He was very confused at first, wondering what he
had done to get the praise.

But it really gets the attention and distracts him from
whatever he may have going through his brain when
he hears it.

Dogs are funny, but people are too. Can't wait to get
the Doggy do Right, etc.

Thanks,

N

=========
(IOW dogs who literally shit themselves when
they hear sudden noises)
YOU MEAN ABUSED DOGS, shelly.

LIKE YOURS.

And like your PALS here abHOWETS, the MENTALLY
ILL DOG ABUSING PUNK THUG COWARDS who HURT
INTIMDIATE and MURDER dogs on accHOWENT Of
THAT'S THEIR PREFERENCE, shelly.

But NOT LIKE THIS:

Chris Williams writes:

"The FREE Wits' End Dog Training Method manual
I do find valuable. Much of it I recognize as what
I've always done without thinking of it as "training".
New stuff, I've used. His anchoring technique erased
the last of Mac's fireworks trauma,"

====================

AND LIKE THIS:

"Dan Moore" <***@worldnet.att.net>
wrote in message news:fS2Lc.114567$***@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net

Tracy,

What worked for me, in just one storm,
was to praise the dog after each clap
of thunder, telling him he's a Good Dog!

This is an almost 13 year old Doberman, BTW.

The next time it thundered, he did not even
react at all--you could not tell it was the same
dog as before.

There was more thunder just the other day,
and same thing, nada, nothing, zilch, no
cowering, whimpering, trying to hide at all,
it was that simple.

I got this idea from Jerry Howe, who might seem
to be a "wild and crazy" character, but his non-
abusive way of handling dogs WORKS.

Wonderfully.

Praise.

It's that simple.

Juanita

AND LIKE THIS:

Subject: Re: Dog will not listen to anyone but me!
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 11:33:36 -0500
Message-ID: ***@corp.supernews.com

Okay, I gotta speak up here... We've been using Jerry's
methods with our dog. We had the same problem as the
original poster has with Buzz. One day working with the
family pack exercise and practicing the recall command
with the family and she'll now go out with hubby and
daughter instead of needing me to reassure her or even
refusing to go with anyone but me.

I really urge you, regardless of the negative things you
might hear about Jerry & Wits' End here, to try the method
and *judge the results for yourself*.

Let's see what other areas she's improved in... always
comes when called, not chewing stuff even if we leave
it laying around, "re"housebroken after long shelter stay,
walks perfectly on leash, doesn't try to steal food from
our plates or beg... probably a few more things I'm
forgetting to mention. *(Yeah, the kats lay off the koi
and don't wander. jh).

That's in about a week's time.

Her overall demeanor has changed. When we brought
her home she was very untrusting and ultra-submissive
(except with her area/toys where she was possessive and
nippy).

She had been abused and beaten by previous owners,
then she was in a shelter for months. They (most of them)
wanted to give up and kill her Now she's gained confidence
and trust with us. Last night was another big breakthrough
(in my eyes). She barked! Big deal, she barked just once
when she heard the front door. Great!

Anyway, you'll be told lots of nasty stuff about Jerry or that
the Wits' End manual is culled from other sources. In my
opinion, even if it is, it takes only the good stuff and leaves
out the bad. Works for me.

(And I suppose I gotta say this... I don't know Jerry personally.
I've emailed him and instant messaged him. I have not bought a
"Doggy Do Right". He's offered help for free.)

Ms. Mick Owen Crneckiy
http://www.crneckiy.com & http://tarot.crneckiy.com
E-mail & MSN Messenger: ***@crneckiy.com
AIM & Yahoo!: MickCrneckiy ~ ICQ: 72461227

======================
or deaf dogs?
You could use ANY brief variably alternating
distraction INSTANTLY followed by PROLONGED
NON PHYSICAL PRAISE, shelly, JUST LIKE HOWE
IT SEZ in your own FREE COPY of The Amazing
Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSSITENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual <{): ~ ) >
how does Jerry's "method" work
LIKE FREAKIN MAGICK, shelly... JUST LIKE
HOWE ALL The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method
Manual Students ALL OVER The WHOWEL WILD
WORLD REPORT RIGHT HERE.

You know, the WONS YOU CALL LIARS and FORGERIES
and PAID SHILLS for The Amazing Puppy Wizard's
DANGERHOWES PLAGIARIZED METHODS which DO NOT WORK.

REMEMBER NHOWE, shelly darlin?
for severe separation anxiety
The Amazing Puppy Wizard PREFERS to use NON PHYSCIAL
C-HOWENTER CONditioning aka The Amazing Puppy Wizard's
Surrogate Toy Separation AnXXXIHOWESNESS / Bed Time
Calming / Fear Of Thunder / Car Sickness / Submissive
Urination / Obsessive Compulsiive Masturbation / Chronic
Urinary Tract / Bladder / Irritable BHOWEL / Obsessive
Compulsive Marking / Spraying / Defecating Syndrome
Technique <{); ~ ) >

LIKE THIS:

"Just Want To Second Jerry's Method For Dealing With This
(Destructive Separation Anxiety). I've Suggested It To Quite
A Few Clients Now And It's Worked 'EVERY TIME The
Very First Time' - marilyn, Trainer, 33 Years Experience.
"His Amazing Progress Almost Makes Me Cry. Your Method
Takes Positive Training To The Next Level And Should Really
Be Used By All Trainers Who Call Themselves Trainers. Thank
You For Helping Me Save His Life," Kay Pierce, Professional
Trainer, 30 Years Experience.

AND LIKE THIS:

From: Hoku Beltz
To: The Puppy Wizard
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 6:12 PM
Subject: Mahalo
Aloha Jerry,

Just wanted to let you know that the surrogate toy
technique is working wonders.

I have not had a shredded sheet for over a week now.

It is nice to be able to leave the bed made and come
home to a made bed.

Your program is awesome, but you already know
that. Keep up the good work!

Hoku
==================

"Hoku Beltz" <***@rsphawaii.com <mailto:***@rsphawaii.com>>
wrote in message <news:SN2k9.45447$***@twister.socal.rr.com>...

Aloha Sunny,

Just follow the training program to the
letter, no matter how insignificant some
of the step seem to be and your pupy will
be a very well behaved dog in a few days.

I would seriously consider backing out of
the training classes as they will conflict
with the Wit's End principles.

I went the training route first, and still
had problems until I found Wits' End.

Now I have two "new and improved" dogs.

You won't be disappointed if you follow the program.

Good luck,

Hoku

AND LIKE THIS:

Dave Cohen <***@total.net writes:
Re: Barking Deterrants Needed...

Hi. Please understand that I do not know Jerry and have
spoken with him briefly once by email.

I have no stake or interest in the success of his
business. I simply want to thank him publicly for one
of his tips, with regards to separation anxiety.

I thought it seemed far fetched to praise a stuffed
animal and then say good bye to my own dog, but
I am usually a very open minded person, so I tried it.
Well, lo and behold- the damn trick worked!

I think Jerry has some intriguing techniques, and
personally I think everyone who constantly criticizes
him is not understanding his logic.

Thank you Jerry!

-----------------------

AND LIKE THIS 12 YEAR OLD DOG:

<***@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 23:04:50 -0700

Subject: Puppy Wizard - Report, Day Two

Success!

I left for about 25 minutes, and when I returned
and walked thru the front door - no dog standing
there waiting for me! No barking, no whimpering -
no anything.

In fact, no dog!

I got worried, looking all over for her. I found
her asleep (yes, asleep!!!!) on a pile of clothing
that was on the floor in my second bedroom.

I left a tape recorder running while I was gone, but,
without realizing it, I had it set to Voice Activation -
and it hadn't been activated! I don't think she made a
sound while I was gone.

I almost feel ready to give it a big test - leave her
at home while I go to a movie, which I haven't been
able to do since I got her a little over one year ago.

Both times I employed your technique over the last couple
of days, I did so at night. Just because I need to satisfy
myself that this is real, I'm going to leave during the day
for awhile. I know you'll say it won't make any difference,
but gotta do it, gotta test it, gotta assure myself that this
is real.

Robin


Just wanted to let you know that the surrogate toy
technique is working wonders.I have not had a shredded
sheet for over a week now. Robin.
in a dog who is also sound reactive?
THERE AIN'T NO SUCH CRITTER, shelly. Your dogs FEAR
LHOWED NOISES on accHOWENT of YOU ABUSE THEM <{); ~ ) >
how would you address serious dog aggression
You mean like HOWE Ron Flanagan did in his
post above? OR DID YOU MEAN LIKE THIS, shelly?:

Subject: Re: Lab/Rot 11 Months (TEMPER PROBLEMS)
Date: 2004-05-21 19:22:05 PST

"Zack Pellers" <***@GUESSWHERE.cc>
wrote in message
***@towson.edu (Derek) wrote in news:
***@posting.google.com:

Your dog needs to be retrained. Contact Mr. Jerry Howe.

Http://www.DoggyDoRight.com

You can start by downloading the free training
manual available on the site above. I used it on
my 4 year old Fila Brasileiro.

When I first brought him home from rescue, he
was similar to the way you decribed your dog.
After using Mr. Howe's training method, the dog
was cured within 72 hours.

-Jack
or prey drive?
Oh? HOWE COME would you want to QUASH PRAY DRIVE,
shelly? WE CAN USE PRAY DRIVE TO TRAIN DOGS NOT
TO CHASE PREY, shelly... LIKE THIS, from YOUR
OWN rpdb dog abusing PAL elizabeth naime SEZ,
JUST LIKE HOWE LeeCharleskelley TRIED TO TEACH
YOU BUMS when you called him a LIAR, but you
IGNORED elizabet's post.
Quoth Handsome Jack Morrison
02:15:55 GMT,
What's the difference between making, say, a
hard-charging field-bred retriever (say an equally
independent Chessie) "reliably do something that is
completely contrary to its wiring," e.g.,
<SNIP>
Couple of years ago by now, a woman with fox
terriers wrote about training a recall on the
clicktrain list. She had used a long line and
proofed for distractions per Koehler; yet the dog
knew when he was on a line and when not, and
would ignore her when there were squirrels to chase.
She had used an e-collar under the direction of a
professional, who said he had never met a dog who
could tell whether he was wearing the real thing or
the dummy collar, as her dog seemed able to.
Heck, they're terriers. Chasing squirrels or other
irresistable prey, they'll scramble through thorny
bushes, tumble down rocky hills, and the prey could
always bite back (though I'm thinking more of badger
dogs -- the Cairn Terrier, the West Highland White
Terrier, and the hunting Dachshund -- badgers are
reputed to be pretty tough critters). And none of
that diminishes the fun. What's a few scratches and
lumps and bruises? And what are corrections
from a long line or an e-collar in the face of such
delightful temptation?
What did work for her, at last, was chasing
squirrels with the dog. I believe she used a harness
with a long line and a snapback, not to correct the
dog, but to ensure that during training he simply
wasn't able to enjoyably chase squirrels without her
cooperation.
Each time he focused on her rather than a
nearby squirrel, the reward was that they
chased the squirrel together.
The fact that his best friend and fellow squirrel
chaser was a bit clumsly and let the squirrels
get away didn't bother him... apparently the
chase was the best part.
Once he got the picture (not long at all) the dog took
to running over and stepping on her foot when there
was chasable prey about... which pretty much took
care of the squirrel chasing problem, as she was
then able to pick him up and/or reward him with a
joint chase when appropriate and not too
embarassing.
A good while after this training success, she found
that he would run and touch her foot to alert her to
prey *she* hadn't seen yet. Which gave her time to
pick him up the time he saw the chicken first...
There are limits, obviously. You can't chase deer
with your dog; ain't proper and the game warden's
not gonna be happy with it.
However, I think there's a lesson here for all trainers,
about the dog knowing what's reinforcing and what's
not (treats ranking lower than squirrels for this dog)
and about modifying "drives," setting rules and limits
rather than trying to "put a stop to it" entirely.
So the retriever gets to chase and retrieve birds,
the scent hound gets to use his nose, the terrier
gets to chase the prey, the greyhound gets to lure
course (or, squeamish though I personally might be
about it, open-field course)... on the handler's
terms.
-----------------------------------------
Only know that there is no spork.
ONLY KNOW this is only the basic uneducated
version... elizabeth still doesn't know HOWE to
TRAIN a dog if she can't chase a squirrel up a tree.
and, by prey drive, i do *not* mean playing with woobies.
RIGHT! THE STRONGER THE PRAY DRIVE THE FASTER
AND EZIER IT'LL BE TO TRAIN THE DOG TO WORK
JUST LIKE HOWE A PACK OF WOLVES WORK PREY, shelly.

LIKE THIS:

HOWEDY Group,

Here some SUCCESS STORIES ive had
using JERRY'S MANUAL

1) My dogz, two bitches - Vicious, barking, aggressive,
pulled on leash, wanted to kill any dogs they saw, fought
between each other. TWO WEEKS using Jerry's manual,
they were calm, friends, my companions.

2) ADDED A BEAGLE PUPPY (male) to my "PACK", the
girls had -NO PROBLEMS- with him from the moment I
dropped him by their noses.

3) My FRIENDS dogs 2 MALES barking and jumping
at the fence all night 3 DAYS TRAINING WITH JERRY'S
MANUAL they were CALMED AND HAVEN'T BARKED ONCE!

Added a NEW MALE DOG (2 yrs old) AND
WELCOMED HIM WITH NO WUCKAS !

4) POODLE that ATE food from the KITCHEN BENCH -
lock him in a box? NO! USE JERRYS MANUAL! 4 DAYS
AND HES NEVER DONE IT SINCE!

5) ABUSED DOGS AT THE SHELTER I WORK AT -
HAD TO BE FED WITH A BUCKET ON A STICK -
ONE WEEK ON JERRYS MANUAL, THE SUPERVISOR
TOLD ME TO PUT THEM IN THE PUBLIC KENNELS
FOR SALE !

Quite amazing to - I thought they were just dull coloured
dogs, but after I had removed the fear and anxiety their
hairs coloured up amazingly.

6) STAFFY FEMALE who would NOT DROP HER
BALL! She carried it around all day and night - 3
DAYS on jerrys MANUAL and she now DROPS
it when u ASK her to!

BWHWHAHAHAHAAHA !!!!

Nevyn

============
i mean a dog whose greatest joy is derived from
chasing, killing, and eating critters.
YOU GOT TO "JOIN UP" with them JUST LIKE HOWE The
Amazing Puppy Wizard and Monty Roberts the Horse
Whisperer teaches you HOWE to do, shelly.
--
shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net
http://cat-sidh.blogspot.com/
http://letters-to-esther.blogspot.com/ (updated 7/10/05)
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAA!

You're ALL a bunch of lying dog abusing mental cases.
Hey, do like me, and killfile Jerry.
He has millions of people aleady reading
his posts and watching him extract his soggy
foot out of his mouth!
Out of these MILLIONS, I've only seen 2
naive childs come forward and actually
believe in his training manual.
Robert Crim writes:

I assume that I and my wife are those two
naive childs since I freely admit to having
read and, I hope, understood enough of the
manual and it's counterparts by John Fisher
and the posts of Marilyn Rammell to believe
and use it.

This naive child would like to say thank you
to both Jerry and Marilyn for putting up with
a constant barrage of really infantile crap at
the hands of supposedly adult dog lovers.

The other naive child (LSW) has to put up with
the nagging idea that if people like them had
been posting earlier, maybe we would not have
had to hold the head of a really magnificent
animal in our arms while he was given the
needle and having to hug him and wait until
he gasped his last gasp.

To my mind, "naive" is believing you can
terrorize a dog into good behavior. Naive is
believing that people that hide behind fake
names are more honest than people that use
their real names.

Naive is thinking that dilettante dog breeders
and amateur "trainers" like Joey
(lyingdogDUMMY, j.h.) are the equal or better
than those that have studied and lived by their
craft for decades.

"Stupid" is believing that people do not see
kindergarten level insults for what they are.

Really stupid is believing that people like
Jerry Howe and Marilyn Rammell are going
to just go away because you people act like
fools. Why do you act like fools? I really
have no idea, and I don't really care.
And, to date: I've not seen ONE come
forward and actually admit to buying and
having success with his little black box.
I think I'm going to get one myself for Father's
day and take it down to the Animal Shelter for
their use and testing. You would never believe
the results, so you'll never know.
Anyone by now that doesn't see a scam man
coming by Jerry's posts deserves to get what
is sure to be coming to him! LOL!
I don't see a "scam man", so I guess I and Longsuffering
Wife and Rollei will just have to get what we deserve, eh?

As Joey (Dogman) says, "poor Rollei.".......right.
Terri
Yes it was, and that is sad.

Robert, Longsuffering Wife and Rollei (do I get to listen
to the box first?)

--------==========================-----------

OR ASK Misty, you bums GOT HER DEAD DOG Peaches
DEAD ON HER, shelly. REMEMBER?

LIKE THIS:

misty" <***@webtv.net wrote in message
news:
6946-3B6337A1-***@storefull-233.iap.bryant.webtv.net...

We just installed a PetSafe brand fence this Spring.
Two dogs, two collars We now have one dog and no
collars.

Peach and Zelda would run thru the fence, not want
to come back in the yard and would run for days.

The last time, Peach didn't come back home.

I used the Wit's End Training Manual to learn how
to train my dog.

She is now border trained. A few minutes each day
reinforces her desire to stay in the yard. She no
longer runs out into the road, I can stop her from
chasing cats and she no longer cringes when we walk
around the yard.

I can not say loud or long enough how much I hate
the e-fence and its collars. If you can't get a
regular fence then you need to train your dog.

I will never rely on an electronic collar to keep my
dog in our yard again. The price was too high:-(

~misty

"misty" <***@webtv.net wrote in message news:
16990-***@storefull-2293.public.lawson.webtv.net

I don't now whether Peach is dead or alive. I do know
she's not here with us. I really can't blame anyone
here for her loss.

I'm the one who ignored your advice. I did it because
of how you write/wrote. I was unwilling to accept the
idea that my using a shock collar could have any
bearing on Peach not wanting to stay home.

Up until I started using it my main concern had been
keeping my dogs in their own yard.

Once I started using the e-fence... well, then my
concern became how to keep them from running off for
days on end.

I lost valuable training time becoming embroiled in
the anti-shock debate and the "Jerry sux" tirades.

I lost one dog but I have the bestest dog in the world
now <g A Wits End Trained dog, one who is completely
housetrained, doesn't chew up stuff, stays in the
yard, and doesn't bark all the time.

IOW a great companion and friend.

Thanks Jerry!

=====================

From: Nevyn (***@badmama.com.au)
Subject: Re: radio fence
Date: 2003-11-05 04:17:45 PST

Hi folks,

In my opinion the use of a radioshock fence is a waste
of time, effort or money. I can understand it if you a
rich snob who cares nothing about their dogs safey or
behaviours.

At work I boundary train all the dogs to the bricked
area (Four kennels with 26 cages with 1 dog in each, 1
services building and 2 catterys which is surrounded
by scrubland to the east and woodlands to the north
and a lake to the west).

This works well, because then when people buy them the
dogs are easier to boundary train to a door or fence
or yard.

However on a personal note, my two shelter mutts, who
I trained using the WITS END DOG MANUAL available at
www. doggydoright. com will not go past the back door,
or the back gate or the front gate without permission.

And it is nice, for when you are having a party, you
can leave your gates open for people, and your dogs
won't be the least concerned.

I find this better then spending your well earned
money on a piece of junk Why not use it to invest in a
horse? Or a new house? Make a nice aquarium? Build a
nursery for a child?

Save your money. Train your dog. Please. -- Thankyou,
Nevyn

Nevyn E. D. Veterinary Nurse & Animal Trainer
***@badmama.com.au

"You can judge a man's heart by his treatment
of animals"

Nevyn writes:

Jerry I cannot even begin to tell you the success
I've had with your training manual! My two mutts
have gone from out-of-control psychos to obedient
well behaved companions within a matter of weeks!

AND My friends have seen the success and have
asked me to work on their dogs!

I was working with a 5 month old Ridgeback female
today and she was being an angel after like an hour
of working with her!

It is AMAZING!!

I pity those fools who take their dogs to classes
where the "Trainers" abuse their dogs! (do they
have a degree? A masters? a Phd? by the way?

NO they are average joes off the street who think
they know how to train dogs!)

Once again, Jerry, you are a genius!

NEVYN and my Dogs, Rizzo and Midget, My Grandparents
dogs, Dusty and Snoopy, and my friends pup, Jazz.

================

Here's a discussion I just had with Nevyn, who wrote in here
about four weeks ago with some dog aggression problems
and THEN some.

Never give out your password or credit card number in an
instant message conversation.

Nevyn says:
hello Jerry.

Jerry says:
HOWEDY Nevyn

Nevyn says:
How are you?

Jerry says:
sup?

Nevyn says:
Oh nothing

Nevyn says:

My dogs are alot better now!

Jerry says:
fine

Jerry says:
tell me

Nevyn says:
I can walk them on or off the leash and they
don't give a #@% about other dogs

Jerry says:
naah

Nevyn says:
I can let them inside and they wont eat the cats

Jerry says:
naah

Nevyn says:
Yup

Jerry says:
what did you do, buy a shock collar?

Nevyn says:
No

Nevyn says:
Praised them

Jerry says:
ahh!

Jerry says:
you think they're 100% better

Nevyn says:
'cept they still bark at the neighbour but only
coz he swears at them and pours water on them

Nevyn says:
nahh they still have stinky breath!

Nevyn says:
muahaha

Jerry says:
ok

Jerry says:
I'll go for that

Jerry says:
it'll take a couple more days to break the neighbor thing if
you're
consistent

Jerry says:
then he won't swear and throw water at them

Nevyn says:
yeah but he's only out on the weekends

Jerry says:
but they'll still have stinky breath

Nevyn says:
muahahaha

Jerry says:
you gonna write the group and tell them they're suckin hind
teat?

Nevyn says:
eh

Nevyn says:
nah

Nevyn says:
cant

Nevyn says:
my news server isn't workin

Nevyn says:
how about u just screenshot or copy this chat and post it

Jerry says:
why not.

Nevyn says:
sorry been tryin all day to get on the news server

Jerry says:
you got anything you'd like to tell the dog lovers
who would prefer to see you choke and shock
and lock your dogs in a box?

Jerry says:
I guess you don't want to tell them nuthin that they don't
already know, huh?

Nevyn says:
hah

Nevyn says:
tell them they're fuckers who need to die

Nevyn says:
dogs aren't for abusing they are for loving they love so much

Jerry says:
that's HOWE COME they got me now

Jerry says:
howe much training time did it take for the two of 'em?

Nevyn says:
pfftt

Nevyn says:
it didn't even seem like training

Nevyn says:
its been 24 days since I got your manual

Jerry says:
pfffttt!!!!

Jerry says:
hhahahahaha

Jerry says:
have you got that feeling that they're in tune
with EVERYTHING you're wanting them to do?

Jerry says:
I forgot what city you're in.

Jerry says:
maybe if you're near alphalpha sweeny you
can swing by and LAUGH your ass off at him
growling at his dogs???

Jerry says:
BWWWHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

Nevyn says:
LOL

Nevyn says:
I'm in Perth, Australia!

Nevyn says:
and yes they do seem to be in tune

=====================

Nevyn says:
oh!! the other day my dogs went into submissive
position when a tiny little toy poodle came up
barking at them! !LOL

Jerry says:
EXCELLENT!

Nevyn says:
lol

Jerry says:
they knew they didn't need to fight,
cause everything was in your expert control.

Keep up the good work. j;~)
-----------------

Nevyn" <***@wasp.net.au> wrote in message news:***@posting.google.com...

Hi There Jerry

Its Nevyn. Sorry Ive not been posting, but these lying
scum buckets like Alphuck Sweeny and such really
piss me off; And Ive been working weekend work at
the tracks with the greyhounds (thanks to you!).

Well my dogs are the envy of all on my street. I can
have them out in the yard with me, take them walking
without a leash, they will do any command with no
hesitation. And they don't bark anymore! Thanks to
your machine!

Oh yeah, I loaned your machine to several friends
and family -- Here are some reports:

"I would say my dogs are well trained, but they suffer
severe anxiety when no body is home. This machine
quietened them almost instantly - still they barked,
in the beginning, but just one or two barks. Then
slowly they just stopped... beginning to bark, then
instantly stopping.

It took only 2 weeks, and we did nothing.

Truly amazing;

I have recommomeded it to my family, and perhaps
they will buy one. Its a shame you don't sell them publicly".
-- Kylie, 30, on dogs Lili (11 yr mutt bitch) and Sheeba (4 yr
Rotty X)

"My two dogs barked insanely when someone would
go past. With this little machine they quietened right
down, and even became partly obedient, and we did
nothing!

Great stuff.

We ran it only on the lowest setting, too!"
- Ed, 65, on his two male Dobermans, 5 yrs old.

Well I have some more, and am collecting more,
but I only have one machine so its a slow process.
Once again I say thankyou Jerry! My family was
on the verge of giving them up! :(

But no longer :)

=====================

Here's Nevyn's PRYOR case history. Nevyn is
NHOWE working as a professional trainer:

From: Nevyn (***@wasp.net.au)
Subject: Newsgroups: rec. pets. dogs. behavior
Date: 2002-03-01 03:15:50 PST

Hello

I have two mungrel females; the breeds exactly
are Blue Heeler spots) x Kelpi (dominant genes)
x American Pitbull (behavioural) x Pug (don't laugh!).

They are gentle loving dogs when I'm at home with
them, and they are friendly with unknown people.
They are sisters. One is obviously dominant over
the other, and I don't have a problem with that, however;

Their behaviour is very odd. Some days they
are very good whilst I'm walking them, some
days they are not. They are 3 years old and
have only been walking for about 12 months
because my mom didn't walk them and now
I'm home so I walk them for about an hour
and half every afternoon. I take them to the
park where they chase birds and swim in the lake.

This is my problem :

The less-dominant dog viscously barks at every
other dog we walk past; I have tried using a stick
and giving her a tap when she does it, and treating
her with treats when she doesn't, using a choke
chain, a muzzle and a thing that sprays stuff in her
mouth when she barks.

She won't stop! Does anyone know how I can stop her? ]

Also, the more-dominant dog seems to know
this is WRONG, when the other dog barks,
she doesn't bark, but she nips at the other
dog as if telling her to cut it out, and then the
barking one attacks the more-dominant one
and they fight on the leash... it is quite
disturbing to the people walking past.

And also the more-dominant one is okay around
other dogs... SOMETIMES... sometimes she
completely ignores them, and yet other times she
will attack them, like yesterday. The less dominant
one I must keep on a leash if a person brings there
dog to the park.

How do I stop them attacking other dogs? I have
tried all the methods I have used above for 10
months every afternoon.

Is it just a pac k-behaviour thing?

It can really be quite embarrassing when your
dogs attack some old lady's or little girl's dog.

They are good dogs, when at home or when there
are no other dogs around. Today there were hundreds
of sparrows flying around the park and they were chasing
them and jumping up trying to catch them for more than
90 minutes (They went straight to bed when I bought them home!).

Can anyone help me?

Email me at my emails address, ***@wasp.net.au
coz this list is tooo crowded.

Thanks,
Nevyn

AND THAT'S HOWE COME YOU BUMS CANNOT POST
HERE ABHOWETS NODOGGAMENEDMOORE. AIN'T IT.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard <{); ~ ) >
A***@HushMail.Com
2005-08-26 23:27:44 UTC
Permalink
HOWEDY Lucy,
Fine with me. I wanted to give the whole group
the opportunity to see that you can't prove that
you're using Jerry's method (because you are not),
you can't prove that Jerry's method is not his
intellectual property (because it is) and you can't
even talk about your way of training dogs of fear of
contradicting yourself - even when dealing with a
simple puppy training matter.
Thank you for beautifully proving my point.
Thank you Lucy for working so hard at proving
these very ill people to be very deluded.
What you have proven to the entire group is that
you don't listen, you don't know when CC is appropriate
and when OC is appropriate, you can't explain how you
can get extinction and increased behaviors from the same
praising technique and that you don't understand the
history of dog training.
Well it AIN'T NECESSARY. That's why we don't play like that.
You have also proven that you refuse to check
into it. You might learn from actually taking
the whole video in context that you are quoting
a section on apples to explain how someone feels
about oranges, for example.
We was talkin about DISCREDITING dr. ian dunbar's "method".
Paula, I've asked the group to provide a reference -
ONE - to support the claim that Jerry's method of
praising a dog when engaging (or thinking of engaging)
in bad behavior in order to stop that behavior is not
his original idea.
There AIN'T. That's HOWE COME The Amazing Puppy
Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method
Manual Students like yourself GET 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANT SUCCESS and then get called liars
and sock puppetts and forgeries by the dog chokers.
To THIS Lynn replied that many trainers are
doing exactly that, all the time. If you have
read my exchange with Lynn, do you think that she
1. understood what I asked?
2. did provide a reference that supported her claim?
3. her mentioning Ian Dunbar (who evidently
doesn't use PRAISE to STOP the bad behavior,
He won't even allow a DOG FIGHTER in his "growl classes."
but uses praise WHEN the behavior STOPS) is
supporting her point, whatever that point was?
The POINT IS THAT'S HOWE COME he can't train ALL
dogs NEARLY INSTANTLY, Lucy.
I'm willing to listen and discuss whatever you
want, but I'd like first of all to get that
reference or an admission of the group that the
said reference is impossible to get because IT
DOES NOT EXIST.
Of curse not, otherWIZE you wouldn't be criticized
for lacking reading skills and laziness for not
getting the books and videos they're SELLIN.
It's elementary honesty when accusing someone of
plagiarizing what he has said it was his original
idea to bring proof that supports the accusation.
We're not dealing with honest people, we're
dealing with active mental patients, Lucy.
Not some general and unverifiable statement such
author, publication, edition, year, volume, from
page____ to page_____. Otherwise what you all are
doing to Jerry is slander - not a pretty thing.
INDEEDY.
Lucy
LIKE THIS:

HOWEDY tommy sorenson aka jack aka joey aka DOGMAN,
Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 20:43:25 -0400
Subject: Re: For Handsome Jack Morrison: Collars - belated reply
Note: The author of this message requested
that it not be archived. This message will
be removed from Groups in 5 days (Jul 28, 8:43 pm).
THAT'S curiHOWES, ain't it...
[]
And maybe you have the horse glasses of the expert
who is blind to the obvious. You are not correcting
me, Lynn, because "correcting" means not only telling
one "You are wrong", but also explaining why s/he is
wrong and also showing how it should be to be "right".
You have been offered the opportunity
to be shown that what we do,
You HURT INTIMIDATE and MURDER innocent victims, tommy.
and exactly how we do it,
You jerk and choke the dog on pronged spiked pinch
choke collars and shock and beat them with your
training stick and pinch and twist their ears toes
and testicles and hang and murder dogs who DON'T
LIKE your o.c. techniques.
gets equal or better results several times now,
CITES PLEASE, tommy? All The Amazing Puppy Wizard
can find are your STUDENT'S DOGS TURNING on them
and GETTIN MURDERED like Robert Crim's and kwbrown's
and tara o. aka tee's steve walker's and laura arlov's
DEAD DOGS Fritz Teena Summer Chewie and Sampson amongst
MANY other case histories and lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn's posted case history of FAILING to train her
own SELECTIVELY BRED HAND PICKED and TESTED SAR dog JIVE.

REMEMBER NHOWE, tommy?
yet you're still claiming otherwise -
Well, let's just have you show us the CASE HISTORY DATA, tommy?
- the mark of a dishonest debater.
OR a MENTAL CASE, eh tommy?
Being shown is the only way in which a person with
such limited experience and knowledge of dogs, dog
training, and learning theory (accompanied, apparently,
by such poor reading comprehension) is ever going to
understand us,
CITES PLEASE, tommy? You HURT INTIMDIATE and MURDER
dogs and CALL THAT SUCCESS, tommy.
provided that you even have a real desire to learn
and are not here just to waste everyone's time
Seems Lucy came here to IDENTIFY EXXXPOSE and DISCREDIT you.

And she DID, remember tommy?
(I'm more inclined, each time you make a post here,
to believe the worst about you, because you "debate"
in such a dishonest manner.).
You mean be CITING POSTED CASE HISTORIES and YOUR OWN LIES, tommy?
Plus, you repeatedly ignore the challenge put
forth to you to go down to your local shelter
and test the success of your ways on a large
number of dogs,
We've GOT a "large number of dogs" whom you've
HURT INTIMDIATED and MURDERED RIGHT HERE, tommy.
with a plethora of different behavior problems.
LIKE WE GOT RIGHT HERE, tommy.
And another example of your blatant dishonesty, IMO.
Your methods MURDER innocent people and dogs, tommy.
You certainly can't enjoy that and I
guarantee nobody else likes engaging
with you on that level.
BWEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHAHAAA!!!
Oh, don't bother, I can take it (and judging by
the number of replies my posts get, it seems the
others can live with it, too). As long as there's
a chance for me of learning something new, I don't
care if you're nice to me or would rather use that
choke chain of yours on me.
It's also dishonest verbiage like the above
that makes you reek of agenda.
You mean like IDENTIFYING EXXXPOSING and DISCREDITING
you and the rest of the lying dog abusing mental patients,
tommy.
You imply above that there is something
"bad" about the use of a choke collar,
Only when you're USING IT TO HURT and INTIMDIATE a dog, tommy.
without even knowing the first thing about]
a choke collar's proper use.
There AIN'T NO WAY to PUPPERLY CHOKE a DUMB CRITTER, tommy.
You wouldn't offer to be a midwife in real life if
you'd never delivered babies, or didn't even know
what type of thing was being delivered, would you?
Let's stick to choking shocking hanging and
murdering innocent dumb critters, dog lovers?
Oh, but I do know what type of thing is being
delivered in our talks here, Lynn. The Socratic
Method is a good, old trustworthy way to deliver
the truth. Why do you fear it?
Because THAT is the NATURE of the DIS-EASE.
To the best of my knowledge, Socrates never
trained a single dog.
Neither have you or lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn, tommy.
Read less Socrates and more Skinner.
Skinner didn't do so good either.
Read less Socrates and more Koehler.
We'll just QUOTE you beatin a dog for
HOWEsbreaking according to koehler, tommy.
You are doing the same kind of potential
harm to people - propagating a message
You mean NOT HURTING dogs.
that is more dangerous than you understand why,
Because it'll PUT YOU BUMS HOWETA BUSINESS.
Then please explain why it is dangerous.
Because you can't let BAD BEHAVIORS go UNPUNISHED.
That's what people have been doing here ad
nauseam, but "you no speaka de eeenglish,"
apparently.
OR she does better than you guys because
she hasn't SEEN your POSTED CASE HISTORIES
of ANY successes.
Until you take the time to learn at least
the ABCs of learning theory, behaviorism,
operant conditioning, etc., we might as
well be speaking in tongues to you.
Might as well.
You've also avoided answering these simple
Because it's DOUBLETALK.
Do you understand what operant conditioning is?
IT MEANS HURT THE DOG.
Do you understand how it is used in the
training of dogs(gerbils, pigs, seals,
chimps, humans, etc.)?
IT'S USED TO BRIBE HURT INTIMDIATE and FORCE.
After all, it's up to each dog owner to use his/her
judgment in deciding what advice to follow and what not.
Absolutely true!
And each of them would be smart to follow trusted,
proven methods, methods that have produced outstanding
results for many, many years,
Like all them DEAD DOGS you've enterTRAINED TO DEATH.
and on dogs of all temperaments, behaviors, etc.
(i.e., walking the walk), before they waste their
hard-earned time "experimenting" with a "manual"
written by a petty, mean-spirited asshole (along
with an few equally ignorant but misguided groupie)
who only talks the talk.
Well, that's the PROBLEM, eh tommy?
Experiment on your own dogs.
Let's take a look see what your koehler and o.c.
methods are all abHOWET, tommy, shall we?:


Instrumental / Classical / Operant / Conditioning
CC / OC / IC / -P +P / +R -R / S R / R S
It's ALL The SAME SAME SAME SAME
<{); ~ ) >

HOWEDY People,

Since The Amazing Puppy Wizard ALWAYS gets CONfHOWENDED
tryin to suss the psychobabble in behavioral terminology
HE asked Dr. Von if he could remember what he was taught
in school fifty years ago:

"...all the highest nervous activity, as it manifests
tself in the conditional reflex, consists of a continual
change of these three fundamental processes -- excitation,
inhibition and disinhibition." Ivan P. Pavlov

What's important is, "does Shamu reliably
eat the fish and not the pretty girl?"

George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.

From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <***@mindspring.com>
Subject: The Amazing Jerry's take on psychobabble
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 12:13:44 -0400

You might improve the learning of folk who actually
live with and train dogs to do useful things if you
excluded everyone who uses psychobabble from your lists.

I recommend to all of you who wish to taste the flavor
of sensible animal behaviorists to read THE MISBEHAVIOR
OF ORGANISMS, Breland and Breland.

This married pair of psychologists began the long trail
of highly trained animals who are symbolized by Shamu
eating a mackrel from a girl's hand instead of eating
the much more tasty pretty girl who is exactly the size
of the natural food of killer whales, seals. Yum!

The essay, by the way, is a chapter in B.F. Skinner's
summing up book, CUMULATIVE RECORD. They include a
sentence which more or less says, "unless you understand
the personal history of the particular animal, and the
history of this animal's species and group, the developmental
history of the animal, you cannot effectively train the animal.

Pigs root and hen's scratch, if you try to train hens without
scratching or pigs without scratching or pigeons without pecking,
you aren't going to have much success.

A conditional reflex is one which is learned, the original
primitive reflex occurs no matter what the history of the
animal, and is hard wired. If you train the animal to respond,
say by ringing a bell immediately before turning on a bright
light, then you've taught the animal and made his native reflex
of pupil constriction conditional upon the ringing of a bell.

Thorndyke added some terminology to this kind of training
and insisted that when you train the animal to make gross
motor responses that this learning is "instrumental", the
animal takes action and uses an instrument.

The Russian word translated as "conditional" in all other
contexts was mistranslated by Pavlov's American translator,
Horsley Gannt, as "conditioned" and so American psychology
went haring after phantasmagora.

The major theorists for the development of the language of
operant conditioning are Edward Thorndike, John Watson, and
B. F. Skinner. Their approach to behaviorism played a major
role in the development of American psychology.

They proposed that learning is the result of the application
of consequences; that is, learners begin to connect certain
responses with certain stimuli. This connection causes the
probability of the response to change (i.e., learning occurs.)

Thorndike labeled this type of learning instrumental. Using
consequences, he taught kittens to manipulate a latch (e.g.,
an instrument). Skinner renamed instrumental as "operant"
because in this learning, one is "operating" on, and is
influenced by, the environment. Where classical conditioning
illustrates S-->R learning, operant conditioning is often
viewed as R-->S learning since it is the consequence that
follows the response that influences whether the response
is likely or unlikely to occur again.

It is through operant conditioning that
voluntary responses are learned.

One should note that Russian Psychology did very well
without the operant language, and only pettifogging
university professors ought to worry about what kind
of label we attach to the learning. Pfui!

Even Skinner understood this!

And please note if you saw the original movie, THE
MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE, you saw a Chinese psychologist
who was based on Andrew Salter, CONDITIONED REFLEX
THERAPY.

Alas, Salter didn't have a Ph.D., but he basically rescued
us from the long Freudian nightmare and returned psychotherapy
to a scientific basis. Alas, the 2nd movie didn't even cite
Salter as a source. "...all the highest nervous activity, as
it manifests itself in the conditional reflex, consists of a
continual change of these three fundamental processes --
excitation, inhibition and disinhibition." Ivan P. Pavlov

George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.

What's important is, "does Shamu reliably eat
the fish and not the pretty girl?"

George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.
--
Handsome Jack Morrison
*gently remove the detonator to reply by e-mail
O.K., tommy... but do you think that's SAFE? Here,
lemme give you a little hand with that tricky little
pin...

Oh hey? Well La, Di, Da! Looks like The Amazing Puppy
Wizard HAS FHOWEND WON CASE where BEATIN THE DOG to
HOWEsbreak it WORKED FOR YOU. Here's tommy BEATIN a
dog to HOWEsbreak IT:

"Walkin The Walk," Accordin To tommy sorenson, aka
jack morrison aka dogman aka joey finnochiario etc,
etc, etc.

Here's lyingdogDUMMY aka tommy soronson
beatin a dog to HOWEsbreak IT to save ITS life:

But FIRST, a little good KOEHLER trainin:

Koehler On Correcting The Housebreaking
Backslider.

"If the punishment is not severe enough, some of
these "backsliders" will think they're winning and
will continue to mess in the house.

An indelible impression can sometimes be
made by giving the dog a hard spanking of long
duration, then leaving him tied by the mess he's
made so you can come back at twenty minute
intervals and punish him again for the same
thing. (Dogs are REALLY stupid. J.H.)

In most cases, the dog that deliberately does this
disagreeable thing cannot be made reliable by the
light spanking that some owners seem to think is
adequate punishment. It will be better for your dog,
as well as the house, if you really pour it on him."

"Housebreaking Problems:

"The Koehler Method of Dog Training"
Howell Book House, 1996"

Occasionally, there is a pup who seems determined to
relieve himself inside the house, regardless of how
often he has the opportunity to go outside. This dog
may require punishment.

Make certain he is equipped with a collar
and piece of line so he can't avoid correction.

When you discover a mess, move in fast, take him to
the place of his error, and hold his head close enough
so that he associates his error with the punishment.

Punish him by spanking him with a light strap or
switch. Either one is better than a folded newspaper.

It is important to your future relationship that you
do not rush at him and start swinging before you get
hold of him.

When he's been spanked, take him outside.
Chances are, if you are careful in your feeding
and close observation, you will not have to do
much punishing.

Be consistent in your handling.

To have a pup almost house-broken and then force
him to commit an error by not providing an opportunity
to go outside is very unfair. Careful planning will
make your job easier.

The same general techniques of housebreaking
apply to grown dogs that are inexperienced in the
house.

For the grown dog who was reliable in the house
and then backslides, the method of correction
differs somewhat.

In this group of "backsliders" we have the
"revenge piddler." This dog protests being alone by
messing on the floor and often in the middle of a bed.

The first step of correction is to confine the dog
closely in a part of the house when you go away, so
that he is constantly reminded of his obligation.

The fact that he once was reliable in the house is
proof that the dog knows right from wrong, and it
leaves you no other course than to punish him
sufficiently to convince him that the satisfaction of
his wrongdoing is not worth the consequences.

If the punishment is not severe enough, some of
these "backsliders" will think they're winning and
will continue to mess in the house.

An indelible impression can sometimes be made
by giving the dog a hard spanking of long duration,
then leaving him tied by the mess he's made so you
can come back at twenty minute intervals and
punish him again for the same thing.

In most cases, the dog that deliberately does this
disagreeable thing cannot be made reliable by the
light spanking that some owners seem to think is
adequate punishment.

It will be better for your dog, as well as the house,
if you really pour it on him.

"Handsome Jack Morrison"
(DogStar716)
Never mind dogman :)
You too? Some folks just never learn.
Uh huh :)
One of the signs of mental illness is to say "Uh
huh" a lot.
PS: If the "trainer" you were talking about isn't
on this list, he (or she) is NOT an approved
Koehler trainer, no matter how loud you scream
otherwise.
May I laugh again? LOL! One doesn't need to be on
a list to use Koehlers methods or teach his
methods.
Let me be among the first (apparently) to tell you
that not every trainer who uses a leash is a
*Koehler* trainer.
Sheesh.
This person may call herself a Koehler trainer, but
if she's hanging 12 week old puppies, she's about as
far from a Koehler trainer as a dog trainer can
possibly be.
Again, this is just your IGNORANCE showing.
I can call myself a devout Christian, but if I'm not
adhering to the doctrine, I'm something else.
http://www.koehlerdogtraining. com/patoflearn.html
Sorry, the very first sentences make me aware that
whoever wrote it knows nothing about PR based
"Amidst the current (and politically correct) trend
in Positive Reinforcement Only training systems"
You cannot use PR only.
Au contraire. Many, many posters to r.p.d.b. (and
many other places as well) *claim* that they use
nothing but R. You know, the PPers.
And they do it quite loudly, too.
Surely you aren't blind (and deaf), as well as
ignorant?
Those are hard handicaps to overcome, Dogstar.
And if you knew anything about PR BASED training,
you would realize that. It's not all cookies and
babytalk.
There is no stronger supporter of R than Handsome
Jack Morrison, but I also use every behavioral tool
in my bag, including R-, P, and P-, because I know
that even R has its limits.
You'd know that too, if you didn't have your head in
the sand.
But that seems to be the battle cry of the
Koehler-ites.
The Koehlerites have no battle cry.
They have behaviorism on their side, and that's more
than enough.
I don't need instruction on how to give my dogs a
proper leash correction as I do not rely on a leash
to control or teach my dog.
That may or may not be suitable for your needs, but
it's not suitable for the majority of dog owners,
especially since the advent of leash laws.
Besides, after just a few weeks of proper Koehler
training, Koehler dogs likewise are no longer in
need of a leash.
That you apparently don't know that, once again
shows me just how ignorant of anything to do with
Koehler you are.
My last two dogs have been trained offleash right
from the start, using rewards for what I like, and
nothing for what I don't like.
Good for you, and if that level of training is good
enough for you, fine. But it's not good enough for
many of the rest of us.
Again, I'm not saying Koehler doesn't work.
I really have no idea what you're saying anymore,
because you apparently know so damn little about
Koehler and behavioral principles in general that
it's hard to have an informed discussion with you.
PS: It boggles my mind at how stupid you must be to
keep denying that those certain harsh methods are
only for LAST RESORT situations, intended only to
SAVE A DOG'S LIFE, even after I've repeatedly given
you direct *quotes* from Koehler's book saying just
that. It's like you don't even care how stupid
people think you are, or how devious you are, etc.
That can't help your cause any. You'd think that
you'd at least want to *appear* to be honest, even
if you're not. -- Handsome Jack Morrison *gently
remove the detonator to reply via e-mail
"Handsome Jack Morrison"
On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 17:52:18 -0400, "Krishur"
Good books huh?
Absolutely. Some are, in fact, classics.
Which idea was your favorite, the one where they
tell you to alpha roll a "dominant" dog,
There's nothing inherently wrong with rolling a dog
(i.e., it *can* and *does* work in *some*
situations). Unfortunately, most people either do it
incorrectly, do it at the wrong time, etc.
or where they tell you that you didn't hit him hard
enough if he doesn't yelp or approaches you within
5 minutes of his punishment?
If physical discipline is deemed necessary (after
careful evaluation), it's much more cruel not to get
it over with quickly than it is to do it
incrementally and half-heartedly, which usually only
invites the need for even more discipline.
Maybe you liked when they recommend these beatings
for housebreaking accidents, chewing/destructive
behavior, stealing, trying to get on your bed
at night and dog on dog aggression.
At no time do the Monks *ever* advocate beating a
dog. A swat on the rump or a check to the chin does
*not* constitute a "beating."
I'm sorry if you don't agree.
And each of those behavior "problems" needs to be
looked at in its proper context.
"We repeat, these situations may merit physical
discipline. Since no book can pretend to analyze
every individual dog and situation, we feel
obligated to emphasize from the outset that
discipline is never an arbitrary training
technique to be applied to each and every dog for
all offenses. We do, however, believe that physical
and verbal discipline can be an effective technique.
The best policy if you experience any of the above
problems is to consult a qualified trainer or
veterinarian for evaluation of your individual
situation....
"If discipline is decided upon as a training
technique, it should be the proper technique. We
feel we have developed several methods that depend
less on violent physical force than timing, a flair
for drama, and the element of surprise.
We feel an obligation, as responsible trainers, to
map out
these methods, rather than simply skip the topic
because it is unpleasant. Dog owners want to know
what to do."
In other words, physical discipline is reserved for
those serious, special occasions when other methods
have failed.
For example, they do not recommend using physical
discipline for *routine* housebreaking chores --
only on those rare occasions when an already
reliably housebroken dog is (after careful
evaluation) deemed to be soiling the house on
purpose, backsliding, etc.
I'll give you an actual example. Years ago, an
adult dog was brought to me as an *incurable*
house-soiler. It was either get the dog reliably
housetrained or the dog was going on a one way trip
to the pound. Being the kind, compassionate trainer
that I am, I was prepared to do whatever it took to
get this dog house-trained and save his life.
After several weeks of more or less traditional
training, and to poor result, I brought out the big
guns -- physical and verbal discipline. Whenever the
dog soiled the house (no, you don't even have to
catch him in the act), I immediately (but very
calmly) tossed a leash on his collar, dragged him to
the scene of the crime, and (using a large
chair as a prop) tethered him to the leg of the
chair, with his nose about two inches away from the
poop. After a couple of swats on the rump, some
loud vocalizing, and a wait of about 20 minutes, I'd
release the dog and then ignore him for a while. I
had to repeat this process *three* times, I think --
and the house-soiling miraculously stopped. The dog
went home to enjoy a long and contented life with
his original owners, and I got to feel good about
myself.
So, yes, the Monk's books are good ones. Even for
novices.
Yup, that's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.
-- Handsome Jack Morrison *gently remove the
detonator to reply via e-mail
Here's professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM research
at UofWI, marshall "SCRUFF SHAKE and SCREAM
"NO!" into ITS face for five seconds and lock IT in a
box for ten minutes contemplation," dermer:

"At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function.
But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and
shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases
then you will have achieved too things.

First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased;
and two, you have established "No" as a conditioned punisher.

How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted
biting.

**********IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?************

When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before mild
forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).

"No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog"
to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works," marshall
dermer, research professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM at
UofWI. For MOORE animal abuse, please visit dr p.

BWAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!!!

That's INSANE. Ain't it.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{}TPW ; ~ } >

P.S. Contacting Dr. P:

Please note that due to the large number of
requests I receive, I can no longer give free,
personal advice on problems related to dog
training and behavior.

In order for me to give such advice we would
have to "talk" about the problem at length.

That is, I would need detailed information about
the dog, it's environment and routine, the problem,
and the situation in which the problem occurs.

Thus, this type of consultation takes time which
I cannot afford to give away for free.

If you wish such advice, please see the information
I have provided about my K9 Behavioral Consulting
practice. Another alternative to obtaining personal
advice is to participate in e-mail, chat room, &
newsgroup discussions.

P.P.S. BWEEEEEEEAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!

YOU'RE FRAUDS, drs p. and dermer!

Either DEFEND your LIES, ABUSE And
Degrees or get the heel HOWETA THIS
BUSINESS.

"If you talk with the animals, they will talk with you
and you will know each other.
If you do not talk to them, you will not know them,
and what you do not know you will fear.

What one fears, one destroys."
Chief Dan George

"If you've got them by the balls their hearts
and minds will follow,"
John Wayne.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{}TPW ; ~ } >

"(Also, it is best to killfile posts from the
few regulars here who are either ill-
tempered, ill-mannered, or just plain ill.),"
--Marshall
----- Original Message -----
To: "The Puppy Wizard"
23, 2004 2:53 PM Subject: God Bless The Puppy Wizard
Dear Mr. Puppy Wizard,
I have, of late, come to recognize your genius
and now must applaud your attempts to save
animals from painful training procedures.
You are indeed a hero, a man of exceptional talent,
who tirelessly devotes his days to crafting posts to
alert the world to animal abuse.
We are lucky to have you, and more people should
come to their senses and support your valuable
work.
Have you thought of establishing a nonprofit
charity to fund your important work?
Have you thought about holding a press conference
so others can learn of your highly worthwhile
and significant work?
In closing, my only suggestion is that you
try to keep your messages short for most
readers may refuse to read a long message
even if it is from the wise, heroic Puppy Wizard.
I wish you well in your endeavors.
--Marshall Dermer
--------------------------------------
"If you've got them by the balls their hearts
and minds will follow,"
John Wayne.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >

GOT MILK?

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